markomalley

(Note: this is very mildly political, but please don't make the mistake of interpreting it in light of current events...it is not intended in that way) As a veteran, I wish to say "Thank You" to civilians. Thank you for your prayers at night. I, for one, am glad you have taken the time on Sunday, at night, or wherever, to say a silent prayer for our safety and our success in what we do. Knowing that people are praying for you...including those who have never met you...is a very satisfying feeling. Thank you for your wishes for success when we have to perform a mission. Many of you pray for our success (or wish for it, in the case of those who don't pray). Knowing that the people back home want us to succeed in a mission is vital. Thank you for taking the time to vote for those who you believe will do the best by us. You may believe those who will do the best by the military people may believe politicians from different parties will do the best by us. The fact that our well being, training, safety, and capability are important to you...and that you communicate that to the elected officials...means a lot. The fact that we're on the agenda...in a positive light...is a good thing. Very, very few people in political office wish bad things for people in the military. That is a tribute to the good wishes that the civilians communicate about us to them. Thank you (to most of you) who do not display a condescending attitude toward us. Though it may have been true for a few years after the draft, the vast majority of us are in the service (and, yes, there are exceptions) because we want to be, not because we have no other alternative. Thank you for taking time to recognize us. Although I personally feel very humbled and very unworthy of such recognition (believing that there are many others who deserve that praise more than I: teachers, policemen, fire fighters, missionaries, and others who put their own lives on hold, or in fact, in jeopardy on a day-to-day basis for the benefit of their fellow man, knowing that they will mostly, at best, receive no recognition for their efforts) I am not trying to represent any other veteran who posts here. But speaking as one, allow me to take the time to thank you.

My take is an overinflated sense of grandeur. Minister of Education, Minister of Finance, etc...sounds like Rosie is the Prime Minister and that TWI is its own little pitiful country. I wonder who the Minister of Defense is? Maybe we could help them out in that regard and move them to the Bikini Islands in the Pacific. Since we did the above-ground H-Bomb testing there, I understand that there aren't any residents anymore. Sounds like the perfect place to set up "TWI-land." I'd even buy the Kool-Aid for them (kidding, of course)

I prefer this definition: a brief (usually one sentence and usually trivial) news item (from Princeton Wordnet) but whatever... Perhaps you should read my original post again. After cleaning the vomit off your screen, feel free to edit either of your earlier posts. The key quote is this: "If November 11th is a day set aside to honor veterans...making November 12th a day to honor survivors of all stripes seems like a great idea." Maybe you should get your panties out of a twist and chill out. On the other hand, maybe you should report me to the mods...for offending your little politically-correct vision of the world.

Harvey, FYI, I retired in 2002 after over 20 years of service in the military. More than half of which involved being deployed to garden spots all over the world. Hopefully that little factoid doesn't make you more sick to your stomach than you already are. Thanks,

Likeaneagle, I think that it is a wonderful post. Why do we respect (military) veterans, anyway? I think part of the answer is because of what they had to endure. I think that anybody who has gone through a tough time and placed their life and soul on the line should be respected and honored on this day. Folks respect veterans because of what they went through... I respect many of those who post on gsc because of what they went through...I respect many for the self-sacrifice that they endured for some other, loftier cause. (Think how many people stayed in even though they knew it was bs...because of their love of spouse or love of children or love of parents). I respect those who endured spiritual abuse, mental abuse, and, particularly in the case of kids who had the misfortune of growing up twi, the physical abuse. What about those few (e.g., insurgent) who posted extensively while still in...exposing the truth to help bring deliverance to others? If November 11th is a day set aside to honor veterans...making November 12th a day to honor survivors of all stripes seems like a great idea.

To reiterate: And that, imho, is the real scandal I see...paying for something you didn't get. Obviously with having one employee on duty there is no way they COULD have somebody to pump your gas.

Do you live in Jersey? I didn't think anybody had full service anymore! Seriously, back in the day when I saw full service (and back centuries ago when I worked in a gas station), there was a serious difference in price between self and full. Back in the 70s, it was around a dime more, IIRC (if I recall correctly, for Garth's sake ). When I think about how much more labor costs now than then (along with insurance, taxes, and so on), 40-50 cents more a gallon for full serve seems about right. Keep in mind, too, that most people (like me) would use self-serve any day before using full serve, and so it's likely there would be fewer gallons pumped to spread out the employee's cost. 66 cents seems pricey, but not overly so... Having said that, if you're paying that big a difference, you should, as dmiller said, get some HUGE service. And that, imho, is the real scandal I see...paying for something you didn't get.

Actually, if you take a look at it, there have been relatively few changes in time. The beliefs have developed, become more refined, and have been interpreted in accord with the times, but they all can be traced back to the beginning (any doctrinal document...at least modern ones...are all extensively footnoted to show this history) The liturgies have developed, but, again, they contain all the essential elements are there and have been since the time of the apostles (the earliest liturgy I've seen was from the second century...and a brief summary I've seen documented from the first) The succession of the bishops can likewise be traced back to the apostles...and, again, is documented as such. That's why I can say that the gates of Hell haven't prevailed against it. Even look at the Protestant groups: even they, who utterly rejected the above, in the vast, vast, vast majority of the cases still accept the principles stated in the Creed of Constantinople/Nicea. (Even the vast, vast majority of those who say they accept no creed). And please don't get me wrong. I am not saying there weren't missteps, mistakes, and so on. But the essential elements of doctrine, the essential elements of the liturgy, the apostolic succession were preserved... So then we have some half-trained country pastor with a diploma mill doctorate who decides that he knows better. He is too good to adopt one particular theological system...and why? because "God" is going to teach him "the word" like it hasn't been known since the first century. (Never mind that the canon of scripture wasn't even codified until several hundred years AFTER the first century) And this ASSUMES that it was all lost. Except for this half-trained country pastor who is going to restore everything back how it should be. Uh huh. Hope that answers your question...

There are two things for you to consider, djs: - First of all, Christ promised (in Mt. 16:18) that the gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church. - Secondly, for Wierwillian theology to be true, the student MUST believe that the gates of Hell prevailed for approximately 1,800 years. ( "I'll teach you the Bible like it hasn't been known since the first century church" or something along those lines) Now whether we are talking about renound theologians or mere inspired creatures, one of the two statements would have to be true. They are mutually exclusive. Now we can go through the Trinity, Are the Dead Alive Now, and so on and so forth, but the place to do so is down in Doctrinal, not in this thread. The bottom line is that one of the two must be correct. Not both. (Yes, Garth, I realize that to non-theists, and to non-Christians, neither one is correct...but that's a different argument) This thread is a derivative of the "PFAL-Colored Glasses" thread down in Doctrinal. You may wish to present your arguments down there. Just a suggestion...not an attack.

From the thread I started up in "About the Way:" Those PFAL-colored glasses would act as a huge inhibitor that limited anybody's ability to do true scholarly work.

Catcup, I believe you hit the nail on the head! For the same reason, I highly doubt that a "scholar" would ever have bought into the Wierwille theology. ' Thanks for the GREAT information!

University of Florida researchers have shown ordinary human brain cells may share the prized qualities of self-renewal and adaptability normally associated with stem cells. Writing in an upcoming edition of Development, scientists from UF’s McKnight Brain Institute describe how they used mature human brain cells taken from epilepsy patients to generate new brain tissue in mice. Furthermore, they can coax these pedestrian human cells to produce large amounts of new brain cells in culture, with one cell theoretically able to begin a cycle of cell division that does not stop until the cells number about 10 to the 16th power. “We can theoretically take a single brain cell out of a human being and - with just this one cell - generate enough brain cells to replace every cell of the donor’s brain and conceivably those of 50 million other people,” said Dennis Steindler, Ph.D., executive director of UF’s McKnight Brain Institute. “This is a completely new source of human brain cells that can potentially be used to fight Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer’s disease, stroke and a host of other brain disorders. It would probably only take months to get enough material for a human transplant operation.” Read the entire article here. This is some tremendous news that might spell a cure for many, many people who suffer from a whole host of diseases. Here is the best part about it (from an ethical point of view, at least): The findings ... are the result of the research team’s long-term investigations of adult human stem cells and rodent embryonic stem cells. We keep on finding results when adult stem cells are used... Anyway, I thought some of you might be glad to hear of this breakthrough!

There is a major difference between the term "unorthodox" and the ones that I used. Unorthodox merely implies a lack of conventional approach. Me, personally, I would use the term "heterodox" -- which implies that the conclusion strays from the accepted norm. But I actually used neither. I used "bankrupt" theology...(bankrupt used as an adjective)...meaning that, as a theology, it was without redemptive value. The reason for this is because of the inconsistencies within his theology that render it logically incapable of operating as a system within itself. Therefore, bankrupt. There are any number of systematic theologies out there. Heterodoxy versus orthodoxy is not the issue that I'm raising. Consistency and logic are. Frankly, although this comment goes out of scope for this thread (I'm providing it because you asked the question), I'm still one that believes that the underlying theology, with its inconsistencies that resulted from the cherry-picking that generated it, was the underlying root cause for many of the frauds and abuses committed. So I'd say that the theology was as real as any of the other frauds he perpetrated. But, again, that's my opinion. Yours may differ.

But here's the question of the hour... Was he the eminent scholar before he got involved with TWI or did he become one while in TWI or did he become one AFTER he left TWI? Why do I keep harping on this point? As anybody who's read my posts for any length of time will recall, I believe that Wierwille taught a bankrupt theology. (No, getting into WHY I believe that is out of scope) This theology was communicated based on a pseudo-intellectualism that resembled actual academic thought, but was not. I, along with most everybody who posts here, fell victim to that bankrupt theology because I was not thoroughly educated enough in an orthodox Christian theology before I heard this pseudo-intellectual tripe. In other words, my own ignorance caused me to fall victim to a rational-sounding way of thinking...that turned out to be completely indefensible and logically in error. This is not to point a finger at anybody...but if it is borne out by the facts, that working theory would explain a lot. What facts would undermine the theory? If we had some trained, eminent theologians, exegetes, etc., who, upon hearing Wierwillism for the first time, believed it enough to convert. So that's why I keep asking "why?"

Not true. They have to be model soldiers. But, unlike what that mass e-mail (that's been around a few cycles) indicates, they have to be soldiers...not monks.

Welcome, again, to gsc. You do realize that this is not a TWI, CES, or other single-faith group site, right?

The tomb guards are part of E Company, 3rd Infantry Regiment and are stationed at Fort Myer, Virginia. The message you forwarded is correct in as much as the physical requirements. However, as far as being under permanent lifetime restriction on their conduct, etc., the official source says this: A guard leaving after at least nine months of service is entitled to wear the badge as a permanent part of the uniform. Permanent means permanent. As to them living under the tomb: LOLOLOLOLOL ROTFLMAO you have GOT to be kidding me. If the soldiers are single, they live in a dormitory on Fort Myer. If married, they live either in post housing or on the economy. LOLOL!!! As far as not being able to drink...there is a Class VI store (for those who haven't been in the service, that means a liquor store) right on post. I used to go there regularly when I worked in Crystal City. And I have seen them, in their fancy uniform, buying not only alcohol, but (hush) cigarettes too. You ought to think about Snopesing or Googling this. I just went to 'official' web sites (like the Fort Myer website) to get the info I have...but I'm sure you can debunk more with minimal effort. LOL

That was my original opinion. I was frankly a bit surprised to hear that there had been a couple of United Methodist Church ordained clergy within TWI. I am very glad to hear that so many folks have gone to get an actual formal education in theology post-TWI. That is a hopeful sign.

(Phonetics are your friends) Partners wanting to tie the knot on the Thai paradise island of Phuket will have to wait a while or find another venue after the main city ran out of marriage certificates, officials said. An official from Muang Phuket Registration Department said Tuesday that they used their last certificate two weeks ago and have since been unable to wed any couples. "I have no idea why the central registration department has not sent them yet. It may have production problems or maybe they are changing to an online system," she said. The official said that each month more than 100 people get married in Phuket city, the main town on the popular Andaman island (remainder snipped) Source: AFP Imagine 20 years after the nuptuals: "Mommy, Daddy, where did you get married?" "Phuket" (

Welcome to gsc...

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Dell, the world's largest personal computer maker, said on Monday it would recall 4.1 million notebook computer batteries after determining they could overheat and posed a fire hazard. Dell said the voluntary recall, issued together with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, was the biggest in its 22-year history. The devices' lithium-ion batteries could, in rare cases, produce smoke and catch fire, Dell spokesman Jess Blackburn said. (remainder snipped) Source: reuters Just in case anybody (else) has a Dell notebook, you may wish to keep an eye on their website.

Well, I am interested in hearing this. Please understand that I am not denigrating anybody who may have been university-trained and subsequent to that went into TWI. J, thanks for that info... Again, all, specific info would be beneficial. Thanks again all!

Interesting...so was he trained post-TWI involvement or pre-TWI involvement? How about Daniel McConaughy? That's the critical part of the question...not so much who had integrity or not, but when were the people who were Biblical Scholars, theologians, church historians, etc., trained? The reason why I'm asking is to find out if anybody who actually was fully educated on the subject came into TWI after his/her training?

Oakspear had a thread going on down in the doctrinal basement called "PFAL-colored glasses." From reading that thread, I'm wondering something that those of you with far more time "in" TWI could answer: How many actual qualified/credentialed scripture scholars, theologians, etc., ever joined TWI? (i.e., those who were scholars prior to their initial encounter with TWI) Most "mainstream" denominations see some "leakage" between the denominations. There are Baptists who are former Catholic priests. There are Catholic priests who are former Presbyterian ministers. There are Eastern Orthodox who are former Anglicans, etc. There are scholars, formally-trained exegetes, theolgians, philosophers, church historians, and so on, who end up switching from one denomination to another on a not common, but visible basis. But I don't recall hearing about any of this "leakage" ever occuring in the direction of TWI. The closest I can think of was a former Catholic seminarian who left the trappist seminary in Kentucky and, a few years afterwards, hooked up with TWI. But seminarians don't meet the criteria of "fully trained" theologians, exegetes, etc. So he wouldn't qualify. That's the closest I can think of. The other example I could think of was Walter Cummins. But I don't know if his university training came before or after he was a Wierwillite. Otherwise, my mind draws a big blank? Any of you TWI historians able to help me with my deficient memory (on this topic)? Thanks in advance!

Oaks, The bottom line is that Wierwille's heterodox doctrines were dependent upon the shoddy work that either he did or that he lifted off of somebody else. The constant twisting (and mangling) of Greek and Hebrew etymology was the pseudo-scientific mechanism that allowed for this mangling. An interesting sidebar question to this would be: how many actual qualified/credentialed scripture scholars, theologians, etc., ever joined TWI? (i.e., those who were scholars prior to their initial encounter with TWI) [in fact, I think that this would be a good thing upon which to base a new thread]