WhiteDove

Pete you have not offended me. You presume I have the inability to take on new ideas, because I do not accept yours which I find to be most illogical. That's called considering and processing and making a logical choice what I choose to believe, not the same. I also wonder why one would need imagination to understand your points, perhaps you could just be clear and concise so that people would not be reduced to imagining what you mean. Bottom line we will not agree on this issue as I said Word Promotions /Chris Geer is only responsible for things authored or compiled; those are things he has control over. His to control, He can direct the use of those things, They are his to administer how he sees fit. What he does not have responsibility for or control over is when someone uses a product of his and also happens to be a psycho and does something rude, offensive ,immoral ,illegal, destructive or otherwise. It's a product! that does not make one responsible for the behavior of the users. I realize that it is fashionable to shift blame today on someone else for your misuse of a product, like the lawsuit for burning your mouth on coffee. But that is not again an idea that I wish to concur with. Sorry but IMHO it is a large leap to assume someone has responsibility for the actions of someone miles away, that listened to a CD, that had nothing to do with the incident that occurred. The fault lies with the perpetrator. Unless you have some evidence that he was directed in some way to commit this crime by Word Promotions that I have not seen it is no different than saying Charles Swindoll is somehow responsible because someone murdered a person and had listened to one of his teachings. Pete you apparently have an issue with Word Promotions/Chris Geer and that is fine, I have at times some as well. but I wont allow those to place responsibility, fault, blame where none is connected. Until I see something tangible to prove otherwise I won't assume guilt because of other predisposed issues.

Though not directly affiliated with CFF I have at times met together with the group here for joint events. We have had several of the CFF teachers come here including John ,Wayne and Research Geek Catcup's husband who posts here . I have had none of the indicated problems with any of them, the last weekend we had four fellowships get together a "geer group" from Chicago a "CFF group" and a couple of independent fellowships. Geek came out from Ohio to teach as well as some from Chicago. We all stayed together for the weekend at the camp cabins and there was no hint of any cross group problems. We had a party and dance in a hall that we turned into a fifties diner and we had Sunday fellowship in the diner with coffee and rolls and a lunch following. Something is lacking in this story above it seems to me.

Speaking of CFF I see that Kev*n Gu*go* and his wife S*ra W ierw*lle Gu*go* have moved to Ohio. He has joined CFFM as full time staff.

T If I come down will I need to get the ark out of dry dock? Or will the flood be done by then? I hate water logged BBQ :(

AHHHM : Well since you asked. A cat they have nine lives too...........

Sorry I don't buy it! What about the subsequent personal letters from the trustees and the audio tape updates where they confirmed the same was true this went on for almost two years How many times does one admit to something that they know is not true, Really if someone accuses you of doing something you know if it is true or not and certainly would not admit to it if it was not. ok I'll give ya maybe the shock for a few days but years come on? And are the others who witnessed these things like Walter Cummins, Wolfgang Schneider, Robert Wilkinson John Townsend also lying when they attested to it. Of course Craig and Don said it was a lie and fiction they had no other cover for why they suddenly changed their story when they saw their easy street life slip sliding away

Thanks for your concern Pink Lady and friend Tina but I willl be fine. As I said I have no close association with Word Promotions or any other exway ministers for that matter. I keep them all at arms length and it's my arm so I control how close they have enterence into my life. I wish you peace and safety in your choices for the future.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY My fellow feathered friend Here is some pie for ya that pie throwing pig Psalmie threw this but missed me.

I am passing this on to you because it definitely worked for me, and we all could use more calm in our lives. By following the simple advice I heard on a Dr. Phil show, I have finally found inner peace. Dr. Phil proclaimed the way to achieve inner peace was to finish all the things you have started. So I looked around my house to see things I started and hadn't finished; and before leaving the house this morning I finished a bottle of Merlot, a bottle of White Zinfandel, a bottle of Baileys, a bottle of Kailua, a package of Oreos, the remainder of the Valium prescriptions, the rest of the cheesecake, a bag of Doritos and a box of chocolates. You have no idea how freaking good I feel. Please pass this on to those you feel are in need of inner peace.

Hey there Tina friend of pink lady Since you are new here I thought the link for about us would answer your questionhttp://www.greasespotcafe.com/main/aboutus.htm I must say it is interesting talking to another personality through pink lady it's ok just a little hard to know who you are talking to sometimes. :blink: Correct as I said I only know what she posted here at GreaseSpot Not exactly- I have a problem with people assuming blame for something that is not related like when someone sues a restaurant for burning themselves on hot coffee. Duh coffee is hot unless you are ordering iced coffee. If you are not bright enough to figure out how to drink it then you should not have any. By the same logic to blame someone miles away who provided a CD class, for someone else's, irrational behavior is not logical. I have sat through that class and nowhere in it is any even remote glimpse of anyone promoting the type of behavior pink lady described . That leads me to the conclusion that the behavior must have come from another source. Logically that would be where the blame should be focused. To assume that someone should involve themselves in a matter that they have no part in is ludicrous. Not sure what you are saying here I understand the loyalty to Jesus Christ thing but that sounds like a statement to me. How is that proof, or what is that proof of ?

There you go Pete, imagining things see that's where I got it wrong dude I thought you were talking about reality. I suppose in an imaginary world anything is possible. I don't know I'll try it sometime, maybe. You have a nice life too Pete in whatever world you choose. Cheers Dude!

Belle you forgot free love........ :blink:

Your right WW they did. so we would need to examine the scripture to see who's behavior was according to scripture. Fear ,control, screaming at people, hate, praying others were dead, singing of washing in the blood of others, lying ,and a few others you get the idea I'm sure are clearly not scriptural. I guess that tells us who was not upholding scripture. they paid a price for sure no doubt, but not for upholding scripture..

Well Rascal I agree with you ! But there is always a business side of a ministry to contend with, we live in a world where other people get paid for service rendered like office rent ,equipment sold and so forth. The way had a business side to keep it running unfortunately it took precedence over the teaching and fellowship side of things too often. Once you start distributing a CD ,book or class you have costs and are in business to at least recover those. I don't think that the understanding, love, and compassion necessarily goes away from the person but your right it most times is not evidenced in the sale of the item. I don't really have a solution for that except to give it away and hope that donations cover your cost, but from experience that does not always work out to the same price as your bills. I know as for our fellowship when someone requests something we mail it out for free if possible, if we receive a donation we use it to mail out the next thing for someone else. It works out for us but then we don't have the overhead of pre printing a lot of books, binders and CD's either. The bookstore items we buy and sell for the cost we have in them but I doubt that also translates into understanding, love, and compassion. I suppose we all have to do what we think works for each of us.

Well Pete Johniam pretty much answered your question, but if you would have read the post you'd have figured that out. not once did I say he was not responsible for the things he authored wrote or even compiled. I'll say it reeeeeeal slow here; those are things he has control over. His to control, He can direct the use of those things, They are his to administer how he sees fit. What he does not have responsibility for or control over is when someone uses a product and also happens to be a psycho and does something rude, offensive ,immoral ,illegal, destructive or otherwise. It's a product! that does not make one responsible for the behavior of the users. Gee I drank a coke today so if I beat my wife I guess it's coca-cola's fault. Not really it's my fault. Thats where the blame goes ........

Exactly David it's two different things as I said. I'd have guessed you'd understand that. Some will never get it I guess.......

Actually I read all of your post the section above I quoted applied to all people involved in leaving the way those were common to most but of course not all . Then you changed to you.( read the quotes) and your wife logically that would not apply to everyone else only to your situation so it would not be on the list that was common to all. That aside you make it sound like you had two choices GEER who you had a proplem with and the Way the lesser of the two evils, but in truth there were several more (groups) choices not to stay or you could do your own thing if you so desired . I'd guess that you were certainly well qualified to do that from your prior posts. Most everyone that left faced a loss of some kind like those but not limited to only those that you mentioned. Some decided that upholding scripture was worth the price some did not think it was and chose friends, a job,family and other choices.

Hey Tina friend of pink lady I think you misread what I said actually I never spoke regarding her situation. honestly I don't know her situation except what she shared here . I don't know her or her family but just from experience most situations like this have two sides one can't assume that the first side heard is the whole story. It may be ,maybe not, until I heard both sides I would not have an opportunity to form an opinion or be of help. This is the internet again not saying that this is the case but people post lots of things not everything you read is true. Either way the people directly involved should be the ones held responsible if it is as she stated, no one makes another abuse someone they need to be accountable for their actions. To assume that someone in another state that produced a Bible class on CD is somehow responsible for another's actions is ludicrous. I've sat through those classes and nowhere does it promote any action like the above mentioned. That being so it is improbable that it was the cause or contributing factor your reaching to place blame on the wrong place. I know a lot of people that have been involved with these same groups and classes and not one would tell you that they learned it was ok to beat their wife, husband or their dog for that matter in them. In fact this is the one and only time I have ever heard of such a thing which means it is an isolated case and something is not adding up.

Word Promotions uses a system much like the way did where you are required to take the preceding level classes a set number of times presumably to have a basis to build the next class on. One could argue that having sat through classes of this type similar but not identical that you could skip the boardwalk and go directly to go so to speak. I'd tend to agree with that in theory, yet their class their rules. Not unlike many classes, I think I needed to take math 1 before math 2 algebra before trigonometry and so on in school. So what? that's life. No it doesn't it makes them abide by the rules for taking the course much like most colleges do. They are free to take the class no one is excluding them. That's like saying they made me wear clothes to work so they excluded me from working....... :unsure:

Same things- There were a myriad of components to consider.....ministry responsibilities, overseeing fellowships, individual concerns, friendships and fellow-laborers, extended family involvement, etc. etc Those were your reasons why people had a excuse to stay around and cause hurt to people even though they knew that it was wrong. Those were the same things I was speaking of - your list not mine, and the Way or Geer were not the only choices either so it's not like you had to choose between the two if anyone had a personal run in with him there were some other choices rather than hanging around. How many times here have you read "I knew it was wrong but I did it because so and so told me to. I could add a few more to the list but the bottom line is none were a good reason to not do what the scripture says. As I said I don't see the scripture that says we get to continue doing what is wrong till we get setup to do right. Sorry

Very Cool Bowtwi!!

Agreed but those who left also had the same things to deal with. It comes down to is it what the scriptures say to do or not, all else though not maybe comfortable to experience is none the less not a sound reason to not do what the scriptures tell us. Many of them if not most had family, wives, responsibilities, no job and so forth but they did what they knew to be true walk out trusting God that he would take care of those who do what is right. Trust and Faith! Isn't that the point of all those years of Bible to learn and do the scripture. I don't think there was a but wait till I get (whatever) in there, it is not always comfortable in my experience rarely in fact that we get to continue doing what is wrong till we get setup to do right. Sorry I don't see that in the scriptures.

Pete I don't recall saying that........ What I said was that Chris Geer does not run fellowships, Word Promotions is distribution company for materials. Logically then he has no responsibility in things he has no control over. IE:some one elses fellowship.

Rascal Only one problem with your guilty as charged idea. I have yet to see any indictment or verdict rendered for any such actions in a real court, the internet court does not count, sorry but this America and one is innocent until proven guilty at least in most cases. The truth is no matter how much you like or dislike someone as a person it does not validate what they say. People have reasons and issues for what they do and say that are not known to us at times. Ask Rubin Hurricane Carter who sat for years in jail for a crime he did not commit because someone accused him and was believed. Had it not been for Bob Dylan and other celebrities working to get him a new trial, he would still be sitting there today. I doubt you would want to convicted by someone's accusations and I know I would not. Come to think of it that happened once upon a time it seems. People that hung around and believed Craig and what he said about those who had departed, sang their little songs about washing in our blood, prayed for us to die, and other such nonsense did so not because of any proof but because someone said so. Guess what? One day when they finally woke up they figured out they were wrong, and for the most part it was not because they saw from the scriptures that it was wrong and made a conscious choice because of the scriptures to leave as many before them did, but because they had got the shaft finally and had little choice. Not a admirable reason for leaving IMHO. Either way we were convicted in the court of hey I would not lie to you I'm so and so.....It didn't work out to well. I think maybe you were there. Sorry that's to way like for me ,show me some truth before you judge someone guilty. You can believe what you want to but this is still America and inocent until proven guilty is the law. Hurricane

I can make no judgment upon a person based on what occurred in their past alone, people change many exway 's have done that. I have my own life to be concerned about and can't see into someone else's thoughts even if I wanted to. Apparently some people think they can! from a distance no less! WOW such talent. I find it interesting that many of those participated in similar activities and yet they somehow can deny acceptance based on the past for others. I guess they are in the same category we should not trust them either after all they marked and avoided many people and caused irrefutable damage to many.