WhiteDove

For poor Belle you have lots of catching up to do............ Where There's Smoke There's Cheech & Chong (Anthology) 36 greatest tracks

I guess no one informed Sir Elton that not only homeless people use shopping carts...... I suppose he does not do a lot of grocery shopping . They did send over an offer of tickets to the show for anyone that wanted them . I guess they felt bad for all the wasted work and thousands of dollars of wasted time, but Ed said not many went most were too PO at the lack of professional courtesy.

I think you misunderstood me skyrider I am aware that you and others have had first hand experience with him. to you it may be first hand - to me it is not. It's your word only, and given your expressed comments I'd have to consider that it could be true or not. But either way it is not provable to me it's a coin toss accept your word or not - thus hear say to me . Sorry I won't base decisions on that condition. As to my perception: My perception is based on years of observation yours may be different ,I still have seen no other reason or gain other than the one offered to undertake the project. I don't really care one way or another what he does, I do care that truth is being spoken. The facts bear out that books were printed ,books were sold by the Way in Great Britain, not Word Promotions and were not part of a franchise agreement as you implied. Either way the money went into the organizational account not his.. It could have been done other ways had he wanted the profit from the books. It was not, those are the facts. Unless you have some other facts to consider I'll stand by the conclusion. The way the items were marketed show no logical attempt for gain for him despite the fact that he could have easily done it that way. In any case no oops moment here, even giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that all of your experiences were true, they are unrelated to the situation we were discussing. A bad experience with someone in the past does not count as proof that an entirely different situation in the present is true. It is illogical to say I had a bad experience in the past with this person, so in a entirely different matter these past experiences prove that he must have profited from some book sales. That's hardly proof, on the other hand I can show you the facts as to why looking at the history trail there is no connection to gain.

I don't know, I think to say accept my choices, lifestyle, ideas, but we should ban yours is a bit intolerant. But Garth you are right I doubt that we are in any danger of it becoming reality, I chalk it up to an artists rant. Most likely his A & R man will need a few extra bottles of Tums this week. I doubt it will hurt his income - as if it mattered, but I suppose it could end up being another Dixie Chicks moment. I like Elton as an artist though more for his older music rather than his Disney theme songs of late. But he could tone down the diva just a bit. His tantrums are legendary. Here is a Elton story for ya , my brother works in the film and commercial industry in LA, the company he works for does ads for major companies like McDonalds, Payless shoes and they did most of the Taco Bell dog ads. Occasionally they shoot a music video or two. They did a commercial for Visa Card with Elton ,it was one of those they did some time back where the star is shopping and in the end they pan their card which has their name on it. They setup this shoot for Visa who poured millions into sponsoring Elton's tour that year in exchange for shooting a commercial. So he arrives on set in limo and is already irritated that he has to do a commercial and a tour date in the same day. Then there was a delay for technical problems as is not uncommon on shoots, and had to wait 20 minutes. Which he did in his limo, it would have been nice if he maybe hung out with the crew at the canteen truck as other stars have in the past, but that was no big deal. So they fix the problem and are ready to start the shoot. This was a simple deal walk through the store set toss a few things into the basket ,park at the checkout and flash the visa card for the camera. Upon learning what he was to do he turned to his manager and said I ain't doing it they want me to act like a f-ing homeless. He gets in the limo and drives away. They later re-shot the commercial with some adjustments so he did not have to push the cart. I guess it is these double standards that I find disingenuous. It's ok for him to tell us we need to feel bad for homeless people but just don't expect me to push a shopping cart and look like one. Well these diva's make for interesting stories anyway I guess. some are better than others they almost electrocuted country singer Tim McGraw once on a shoot they did for his video, but he was cool, stepped away and said guys I think you may have some wires crossed here.

This story is sure heating up. Elton John's remark "From my point of view, I would ban religion completely. Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate." Ouch!!! Not a very tolerant view from someone that wants us to be tolerant of his openly gay religion and lifestyle I'd say. I guess tolerance is in the eye of the beholder too. Don't shot him he's only the piano player may have a new meaning....... Whats up ? Rocket man? Religion Music by Elton John Lyrics by Bernie Taupin Available on the album Too Low For Zero Well he could almost taste the money But he was sitting in a den of thieves Looking for the great awakening Trying to find a way to leave But that's when he got religion And the light went on inside He said somebody up there likes me Now he's working for the holy guide He got drunk but he don't remember That he'd been drinking in a bar downtown When he thought he heard a choir of angels Singing in the Tiki Lounge And that's when he got religion From no salesman on TV Just a tap on the shoulder in the parking lot He still drinks but he does believe Religion, you do the best you can We all make the same mistakes We're gonna wind up with the man Religion, oh you do the best you can We all make the same mistakes We're gonna wind up with the man She was silent as he paid her But the thanks she got was next to none And as her car pulled out of the motel She felt the presence of someone And that's when she got religion In the front of a compact Ford Just a gentle voice on the stereo Now she's a working girl who loves the lord

Sky as I have said before I choose not to make judgments on another based on hear say evidence. If you want to fine your choice. But that does not make it truth either.Every week I see speculation on this board, half-truth, guesses and so forth, some get fixed some do not. We are people, and for a variety of reasons we say and do things that are not always correct and truthful faulty memory , personal dislike of an individual, revenge, personal guesses, unrelated matters, not to mention that some people just enjoy making s*** up and seeing what fly's and these are only a few of them. No matter how much you may like an individual that does not validate what they say as truth. People do strange things! Look at the number of husbands and wives, brothers and sisters, family who's lives are turned upside down by things that you would never in a million years think that they would say. Personal feelings are not a standard for truth. I just watched the other day a special on HBO about people that have sat in prison for 15 and 20 years because someone believed what someone thought they saw or said. Only to be set free due to DNA testing Sorry I wont do the same! Actually I'm not sorry ,I'm quite happy with my decision after all. " Again you speak not knowing what you are talking about. It's easy to take shots at things but it works better if you have the facts at least you end up looking smarter in the end anyway. First it is a yearly franchise not monthly. Second the check goes to Word Promotions a company that in turn pays employees, and expenses to produce a product. I think most of us have jobs where we get paid to do work, do you judge yourself with the same standard? Do you just also sit around and collect paychecks? You nor I to some degree have not a clue what he does on a daily basis yet you seem to guess that he sits around doing nothing, collecting checks with no business expenses either by the way. Is he paid too high a salary? Maybe, but he would not be the first CEO in that position. Take it up with the company if you have a problem with it. Third the franchise checks have nothing to do with the books we were discussing. they are not part of the Word Promotions material. That being the case they could not qualify as I said before, as a reason for undertaking the project. The books having no part or lot in the franchise agreement or terms would not be a reason or as you put it ONE reason for undertaking the book project. Again you look to guess to place motive where none exists. As I said if you don't like the man fine, your right, but at least speak honestly ,truthfully about him, you would expect the same from others about you . And you'll look smarter too, not to mention fresher breath from not having that foot in your mouth.......

Thanks Kit , Certainly we all have opinions and often no two are alike. As Christians our standard for what is right is the scriptures. It's unchanging truth clearly sets forth the compass for man's right and wrong behavior. Everyone has an opinion about what is right or true, but it all comes down to the basis for those opinions. For the most part what is right has become mere moral relativism in our society, and right and wrong have been reduced to matters of personal taste, emotional choices, cultural preference and other such choices. In the end this facilitates great debate but ultimately bringing about no appreciable change. We all have our personal favorite choices for individuals who help to direct our lives in some way. And your right ultimately no matter how wonderful they may be ,they are still people with faults and weaknesses, which is of course why we need to be keep our allegiance to God and not to men. That said of course we can and do learn and profit from people and their teaching. Because we are humans and we will always have that faulty side to contend with. I don't believe that personal fault disqualifies a person from doing right when and where they act according to scripture. I think each instance is and stands on it's own merit and though we may wish to guess the motives, really they are known only between the individual and God. Our opinions certainly are not a standard for truth. We all are the products in some way of our teachers in life, many times they teach us things despite their own faults and even moral failings. And yet we still learn, I dare say that most of us have no idea of the morality of our teachers through life and yet the math, English, science or even biblical truths that we learned were not conditional on their life. It's no secret that VPW learned many things from many men who in turn learned from those before them and those before them.... I am sure they had their faults all of them and yet they contributed to generations of learning for people despite them. I view VPW the same. That is one of the great things about teachers, we can use and build upon their work, to expand it to greater heights. Clearly when one uses this work in published form it is right and true to credit the source, and despite some attempts to do so on occasion, and despite the fact that it was for the most part clear to me that he was doing so, VPW clearly failed to include those sources in his writings. He knew better they certainly made the Corps do so in their research papers. There clearly is no excuse for doing so in printed media. That aside it does not diminish the value in the teachings as they are based on truth not the teachers own moral values. Nor was VPW teachings limited to only repeating the references from other men's works. In the end truth is truth. it stands on it's own and that's a good thing ,we can't screw it up. Despite VPW's faults and failures in his life there was still truth available to learn from his work, as well as those he utilized. Work had he not compiled into one place and shared I know that I would never have found or even thought to look for on my own. And so I will give him credit where it is due and none where it is not. This I do know! long ago my life was changed by the power of God and for whatever reason where no other before(and there were many) None reached me, VPW did......

There could be. In this case I'll take him at his word , it filled a gap for those interested in materials being withheld by The Way Int. They Way in Great Britain Ltd. was functioning before the books so I would not say that it spring boarded anything in this case. I think they sold a fair amount, but on a scale of a best seller today, it would be very little. They were not a focal point or defining for their ministry they were what they were a book of articles and teachings. Not everything has some hidden motive sometimes right or wrong people just do something because they feel it is the right thing for them to do. Time , personal satisfaction or the free market will tell if it was right or wrong in the end. I know it is cool and fashionable to pick apart peoples motives especially when they are not well liked here, I suppose it makes one look like they have some great insight into things. Really the truth is we don't know do we? I generally take people at face value, unless I have good reason to believe otherwise( I wannna look cool is not one by the way) Some years later I still have seen no other reason or gain other than the one offered to undertake the project.

Same s*** different year The coldest periods will be occurring in early and mid-to-late December, early and mid-January, and early February. - Well Yeah it's fricking winter, that's when it generally is cold Significant snowfalls will be in mid-November; early, mid-, and late December; mid-January; and mid-February. So snow in Nov, all of Dec, some in Jan. and Feb. - Hello ..... pretty much the snow season....... The hottest temperatures will be in late June and mid-August. - I'm telling ya these people are fricking rocket scientists, it will be hot in Kansas in the summer damn I'm glad to know that. Who would of thought such a thing? Here's a tip If the rock is wet it's raining......

Really Kit none? I'll leave that determination up to God. :blink: As for me personally I know that I would not be where I am today had it not been for his teaching ministry. I have benefited greatly from his life and I know countless others that would agree.

How about this guy from my state unbelievable..... Albert Wagner, 107, lives in Smith Center, Kan. The oldest living former Marine, he served in France and Germany attached to the Army. After his service, he became a schools superintendent. At his 106th birthday party, he dozed through most of the festivities, but bolted awake when he heard the Marine Corps Hymn. Was recently honored when Kansas dedicated the World War I Veterans Memorial Highway in Smith County. His son served in the Marines in World War II. He was also recently awarded the highest French medal of honor.

There is also an early pre Olthouse- Debra version on the PFAL 77 album with VPW singing with her.

The Book cover reads Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus Victor Paul Wierwille the inside page reads Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus Victor Paul Wierwille edited posthumously by Christopher C. Geer published by European Christian Press The Way in Great Britain Ltd. Dedication reads: To the Household of The Way Corps May We Rise Up, O men Of God Jo-n Re-nolds was outraged because they were still in to much of a fog to think of it themselves.

Legal information: The Way International does NOT hold a copyright to the Sunday Night Service tapes and Tape of the Month tapes by Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille. In fact, it would appear that these tapes were placed in the public domain by Dr. Wierwille and/or the Way International at the time they were distributed due to the fact that there was no copyright symbol placed on any of the tapes. In 1988 Congress passed the Berne Convention Implementation Act, Pub.L. 100-568, 102 Stat. 2853 (Oct. 31, 1988) which eliminated the notice requirement completely for all works first published after March 1, 1989. However, prior to that Act the copyright issue would be controlled by the Copyright Act of 1909 (the '1909 Act')." Under the 1909 Act and prior to March 1, 1989, the Copyright Act required that each copy of a work distributed to the public be marked with a copyright notice." TransWestern Pub. Co. LP v. Multimedia Marketing Associates, Inc., 133 F.3d 773, 782 (10th Cir. 1998). Furthermore, "Failure to do so would inject the work into the public domain." Id. However, the Way International, by failing to adhere to the strict statutory formalities-- i.e., the copyright notice requirement—caused all of the works at issue (teachings by Dr. Wierwille) to be passed into the "Public Domain." "Once a work has passed into the public domain as a result of failure to provide adequate notice of copyright, it may freely be copied." Allied Mktg. Group, Inc. v. CDL Mktg., Inc., 878 F.2d 806, 810 (5th Cir. 1989) This indicia requirement in the Copyright Act was not amended until the Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988, which became effective March 1, 1989. Id. It was not until the Berne Convention amendments that the copyright notice became optional rather than mandatory. Id. See also 17 U.S.C. § 401(a) Norma Ribbon & Trimming, Inc. v. Little, 51 F.3d 45 (5th Cir. 1995) . Since Dr. Wierwille passed away in 1985, all of the teachings at issue were produced prior to the Berne Convention Implementation Act and were required to have a copyright notice on each and every tape distributed in order for the copyright protection to be valid. Prior to March 1, 1989, ownership of a valid copyright is established by proving the originality and copyrightability of the material and compliance with the statutory formalities (i.e. – having a copyright notice displayed on each work). Id. See also Allied Mktg. Group, Inc. v. CDL Mktg., Inc., 878 F.2d 806, 810 (5th Cir. 1989) Apple Barrel Prods., Inc. v. Beard, Only after the Plaintiff meets their burden pursuant to 17 U.S.C. § 410© does a defendant have the burden of overcoming it.

Short I believe that it was Twinky from the other thread that misdirected you. and yes that would have been odd the other way. Some coffee for you........

Depending on the book - Living Victoriously was edited from the tapes from the event. Our times was edited from the early articles in the Way Magazine by that name with a few other items thrown in. The others were a combination of various taped teachings and printed items I believe as well.

And so is edited posthumously I found 35,000 usages on a Google search It' s a perfectly accurate usage unless you are looking for something to speculate about. No offence but from where you sit, with all the wrong facts it would be a bit hard to make any judgment on anyone's motives. Unless of course you just want to make s*** up as is par for the course. If you don't like the man fine, but at least be honest with your accusations and get the facts straight. Your reaching for something that is not there and IMHO your not even doing that well.

Could someone answer a few of my questions..........please? 1) What is the literary protocol of proceeding forward with edited posthumously? With CG editing vpw's teachings, corps notes, special songs, ballads, etc......IMO, it seemed more like NAME-DROPPING than anything else. The purpose for producing the books done posthumously was to put into printed book form things that were no longer available to many believers due to out of print items, and more importantly withholding of materials by The Way International. For the most part editing was limited to parts that would not fit in the book format or were outdated information, additionally some of the articles in original form had no titles so they were supplied from context. They are italicized to show they were added. . 2) Is there a point or boundary wherein "edited posthumously" is merely marketing fabrication? Clearly, with wierwille's studying the work of J.E. Stiles, E.W. Bullinger and B.G. Leonard (to name a few)......he gleaned (and plaigarized) aplenty over the years. Now, CG is taking the vp-work and moving it further from its original (copyrighted?) source. It was always Chris Geer's intent to continue to produce materials for those who he felt would benefit from them., as far back as the Passing of the Patriarch he stated this. Many of the prior articles had found there way into books already it was a continuation of this process. I don't believe that the intent was to move any material from it's source. Quote: page 81 POP "I explained that the reason that we were publishing looks was because they were a survivable media, and that perhaps in another time God would raise someone up to handle His Word again, and that this was the best way that I could see to go." and Quote page 85 POP "After hearing their response I told them that since that was the direction that they were going to go, then I thought it best if I informed them of the direction that we were going to go. Since there was not going to be a great resurgence of the Word of God in the Ministry, the best value for my life that I could see was if I continued to try and put the works of Dr. Wierwille into written form and to continue to rework the Advanced Class to the end that I could assemble a final copy, like Dr. Wierwille had asked me to do.' 3) I tend to view the edited posthumously aspect as a continuation of work that someone finishes in the event that a fellow researcher/author dies before a project is completed.....and, when edited posthumously one credits the person. Is that correct? I'd say so yes ,depending on how you view the above information I'd say it was just that a continuation of printing things into book form that were not done at the time which may have or may not have been at VPW request depending on how you accept the above information.

I got the point but it was based on misinformation by Twinky The book reads as follows: Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus Victor Paul Wierwille edited posthumously by Christopher C. Geer

Why do you say that? Lots of books are edited posthumously it's not that uncommon a google search would come up with 376,000 give or take a few.

I'll most likely forget by then Pete.....

Hopefully they will hang him like he did these guys here

Guilty Death by Hanging [

sniff..... sniff..... I can smell the BBQ clear up here in Kansas. and hear the noise too ! You all are getting a little loud. I had to get my own slab of ribs today it smelled so good. Wish I was there.....

His birthday is in March don't know the day but it is in the later part 20-26