WhiteDove

I would have to agree with Linda there is to much in the scriptures about us doing the renewing. A few years ago I sat through one of W*lter C*mm*ns scripture conferences called Things New and Renewed. He came up with this as a working definition The renewing of the mind is to be done by thinking soberly according to that which God declares to be true in the scriptures regarding all that a person has in the new nature because of Jesus Christ's accomplishments. II Corinthians 5:17 Revised Standard Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. II Corinthians 5:17 New American Standard Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature;the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Corinthians does not say that all things are become new but rather that certain new things have been provided to those who are in Christ. Throughout the New Testament are a listing of things that have become new and some that will become new in future times like a new heaven and earth and a new body. Something that we have not read of as either having become new or that which is to be made new ,and that is the mind. We do see that instead there may be a conflict in the mind because of the two natures and the different kinds of information available. Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God Romans speaks of transforming or transfigure, our minds did not become new when we received the new spirit nature, but rather we are instructed to not be conformed or fashioned to this world but be transformed by the renewing of ones own mind. The perfection of those who have believed on Jesus Christ is in the new spirit life. Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. We are instructed to be thus minded, it does not say that God makes us so it says He will reveal it to us not do it for us. verse 16 tells us to walk by the same rule and to mind, or think, the same thing.

Dog Rule’s for Christmas 1. Be especially patient with your humans during this time. They may appear to be more stressed-out than usual and they will appreciate long comforting dog leans. 2. They may come home with large bags of things they call gifts. Do not assume that all the gifts are yours. 3. Be tolerant if your humans put decorations on you. They seem to get some special kind of pleasure out of seeing how you look with fake antlers. 4. They may bring a large tree into the house and set it up in a prominent place and cover it with lights and decorations. Bizarre as this may seem to you, it is an important ritual for your humans, so there are some things you need to know: a. Don't pee on the tree b. Don't drink water in the container that holds the tree c. Mind your tail when you are near the tree d. If there are packages under the tree, even ones that smell interesting or that have your name on them, don't rip them open e. Don't chew on the cord that runs from the funny-looking hole in the wall to the tree 5. Your humans may occasionally invite lots of strangers to come visit during this season. These parties can be lots of fun, but they also call for some discretion on your part: a. Not all strangers appreciate kisses and leans b. Don't eat off the buffet table c. Beg for goodies subtly (try not to belch loudly or pass gas) d. Be pleasant, even if unknowing strangers sit on your sofa/chair e. Don't drink out of glasses that are left within your reach 6. Likewise, your humans may take you visiting. Here your manners will also be important: a. Observe all the rules in #4 for trees that may be in other people's houses. (4a is particularly important) b. Respect the territory of other animals that may live in the house c. Tolerate children d. Turn on your charm big time 7. A big man with a white beard and a very loud laugh may emerge from your fireplace in the middle of the night. DON'T BITE HIM!!

Yep that is what I said but you assumed something different I think. I never said I knew him I also never said I did not. What I did say was what he has from time to time communicated. As I said either way is fine with me contact him or don't . If you feel you need to by all means do it, I was just offering you some information, apparently your experiance is different.

Really exactly what do you base this assumption on ? I'd like to see your data that you used to arrive at this conclusion. I was around from the early 70s until the late 80's as well as many others I know. That conclusion is not consistant with the results that I have heard.

Who is Melanie? She's won a Grammy, an Emmy, scores of top female vocalist awards, and the hearts of millions from Woodstock to Albert Hall. Over her long career, Melanie has recorded over 25 albums and sold millions of records. During her lifetime, Melanie has amassed an impressive list of accomplishments. More impressive, however, is the fact that she did it without sacrificing her personal integrety. She was the first contemporary solo artist to play Carnagie Hall, the Met, the Sydney Opera House, and for the United Nations General Assembly. While Melanie persued her career, she also contributed time and energy for a while as the chief spokesperson for UNICEF. Melanie's voice is a powerful instrument, and she sings with a unique passion and intensity. Her lyrics are thoughtful, and sometimes mysterious. Her melodies are often beautiful beyond description. Her style is captivating. In all the world of music, there is no one else like her. Melanie

Or maybe you have heard the Nckel Song one too many times. THE NICKEL SONG Melanie Well you know that I'm not a gambler But I'm being gambled on They put in a nickel and I sing a little song Da-da-da-da They put in a nickel and I sing a little song Well, I don't mind that they're lucky But it seems that they always win And gamblin' is illegal in the state of mind I'm in And if I had a nickel for each time that I've been put on I would be their nickel man And I'd sing a little song They're only putting in a nickel and They want a dollar song They're only putting in a little to Get rid of a lot that's Wrong. Well I don't know so many things But I know what's been goin' on We're only putting in a little To get rid of a lot that's wrong And if we had a nickel for each time that We've been put on We'd all be their nickel man And we'd sing a nickel song You know they're only putting in a nickel And they win a dollar song Oh, yeah, they're only putting in a little To get rid of a lot that's wrong Oh, they're only putting in a nickel To win a dollar song

Speaking of someone who seems to think they have all the answers And you would know this how? You have no idea who I do and don't have contact with.

I never said I do know him I only stated what he said himself and I have observed. Like I said Good Luck maybe you will get a quicker response, maybe not, either is fine with me.

Good luck getting a responce from him last I knew it takes about 6-8 months to get a reply to something, and that is to people he likes. I suspect that you may not see one.

Dear Exie I believe that you quoted me the BBQ Bird! No biggie I still :wub: You. I know that you generally don't read all the long threads completely so I did want to point this out. My opinion was in response to the question at hand only. I do believe that it is and was possible to obey God without obeying your leadership. Had more spoken up at the start of the error perhaps others would have been spared the consequences and application of the error later on. I realize that there were ,often a price to pay for speaking up but IMHO they were not worth the price others would pay from me not speaking what I know to be true. I also wanted to point out that I was speaking about those who could speak and act I was not speaking to or about anyone that that was not able to do so due to physical restraints or chemical restraints.

WW I have not disputed that that did happen at times maybe more than not I did not keep track. The fact remains one should and could have stood for what scriptures say, regardless of the cost or the bus ride home.. We all have that choice to make each day hour and sometimes minute. Here is another thing VP taught "Do what God tells you to do not what people think you should do" VPW "God gave his Word, in the written form, the reason being that He might interpret Himself and His will to us and for us. The Word of God is the Will of God, and no man or woman can really know the Will of God, without knowing the Word of God. To know God's Word you can not go by tradition, you can not go by the history of so called Christendom, you have to go back to the integrity of the Word. You can not go by what men say, by what theologians say, by what clergy or by what anyone else may say, you have to come back to the Word of God" VPW I would have asked how they harmonize these apparent discrepancies . That puts the burden on them to explain their point from a biblical perspective. It may not have gone well but at least one could leave knowing that they had no scriptural evidence for what they wanted.

I would agree that he was a human and that as such he was not perfect like the rest of us he had his mistakes in his life, he had error in his thinking at times and he did not always do what he taught was the correct thing to do. I can say the same for me, did he fail miserably I don't know it is not my place to say I don't have all the facts to make such a judgment, nor do I care to. I'm quite content to let God sort that out , I have my own life to worry about, I don't always do what I know to do either though I try. I don't consider myself to have failed miserably. I suppose the best answer I could offer is that at times he failed miserably at certain things other times he did not. He did not fail to teach me and some others I know some things from the scriptures, so I would say based on that alone his life was not a miserable failure.

Patrick I left you an answer on your other thread there are some other places to check depending on your interest .

I have no disagreement with that

I read it as I said there are doccumentable teachings on those subjects. I responded to the second question What is not doccumentable is the illogical subjects you expected them to teach you. Hell they never taught how to build a airplane either but then I would not have expected them to nor years later would I rant about why did they not. It's pretty clear...

.WW I have never claimed that The Way always followed this, only that they taught it and each one could regardless of or independant of their actions ,could choose to do it themselves anyway. You know as well as I do that is not widely accepted here it is seen as waybrain. I see very few that will acknowledge that this idea is true. Here is a typical response when you post anything like that. Hardly acceptance generally a smart a s s answer. "yeah right dove the word of god is the will of god etc only if you do it our way crapolla to them all"

Waysider here was the question page 1 first post Two of these things were not what The Way was designed to offer, as I said someone may have covered these subjects but it was not the purpose for the group. I don't remember any on them because it was not the primary purpose of the Way to teach these type of things, apparently Skyrider does not remember any either otherwise he would not have asked where they were? They were absent because most normal people would go to where they did offer this type of teaching if one was looking for such. If you want teaching on financial planning you would go to someone that does this type of thing which was not The Way's goal if you read their bio sheet. The question asked was where are these teachings? my reply was they are not there because they never were intended to be a focus of The Way. As to the others I believe that there were teachings on those subject matters. I could dig up transcripts, probably audio even but what is the point? we would be off on another Well what about this then rant . It's easy to accuse and then change the subject when someone documents the answer. It is lots of work to do for someone that never really wanted the answer anyway.

This does not sound like" We are discussing a class that promised to show us how Gods' Word could be used to benefit our lives" It sounds like what my example said you would not go to an ice cream store to learn about car repair, of course you might get lucky and find a car repairman there eating ice cream but generally if you want to learn auto repair skills you go to a school for that. Much is the same for investment skills. I've generally found that the clue is in the title as to what it is for. The Way Biblical Research, Teaching, and Fellowship Ministry. Now some may disagree that they accomplished the purpose, But I don't see The Way Biblical Research, Home buying training, and Fellowship Ministry. Nor do I see The Way Biblical Research, Financial planning school, and Fellowship Ministry. This is just another attempt to blame someone else for something unrelated to the field they were offering teaching in. If you wanted to learn that and did not go to the appropriate place now who's fault is that? That said on occasion sometimes people with knowledge in certain fields kindly shared it at times with others. I learned a few things about auto repair from the fleet crew at Emporia. I learned some floral tips that I did not know when I worked on the stage flowers with another florist for the Heartbeat Weekend in our Region. But I never assumed that they had some responsibility to teach me those things. There are other places to learn these things.

Really, God might have a different view on how adolesent the scriptures are! Selective memory maybe? The Way was never intended to be a place to learn investment skills, or to teach job advancement that is not what it was for no more so that college is a place for deep spiritual learning. It adolesent to think that when one goes to the ice cream store that they will learn how to fix their car :blink: :blink:

Pat if you check her you can find some info for your state or any other ,you can also search by last name, click on a state for the listings. Here

Pat I learned the Word of God is our only rule of faith and practice,but it was in the 70s. However you might have noticed it does not seem to be a popular point of view here It's about as popular as a union leader at a Walmart store. It's a tough crowd but they can be tougher...............

Clearly I offend you, No my experiences in twi offend you, No my perspective on the treatment people recieved in twi offends you. What offends me is your bent to make your view of a twi everyone's I can't remember the last time you even spoke somethiong neutral about the Way much less favorable. You continue to pull events from the 90's on and propound that all is evil because of those events. I've tried to meet you in the middle of the road I never disputed things got much worse in the later years, watching from afar I could see that. I also never said all was well in the 70s or 80s. But it certainly was not the place you tend to have us believe it was. Lots of poeple graduated from Rome City they did not beat their kids and no one else did either. You challenge my expperiance ,and yet I wonder what experiance at Rome City you speak from? I have family that lived there for a number of years they are fine no one is beaten, scared. or has a 2X4 sticking out of any part of their body. I agreed that many times the kids felt that they had too many bosses and it was at times confusing for them . If you want to discuss 90s events fine I can't speak to that , but don't try to tell me what I or others experianced in other years was not real.

Rascal I never said That it is ok to treat people badly because they were to stupid or foolish or cowardly to stand up seem like harshness is still condoned. You continue to misquote me despite the fact that numerous times I have made that clear. I said own your choices and move on, don't blame someone or something else for your choices in life. Personal responsibility is not foolishisness or cowardly quite the opposite really I'd say. It takes a quality person to say you know I made a choice, it was not so good maybe but I tried, it was my decision, so I'll live with it. Life goes on....... I don't need to look for someone else to blame for this.

Dot to answer your question I don't dislike Rascal, I have no doubt that she is a fine person and I would be happy to help her in any way I could. What I don't like is the constant doctrinal rant that life in the way was abuse, rape torture, misery, pain, and anything else nasty that you can think of. This is a message board and she can speak her mind ,vent ,rant all she wants, I will exercise the same privilege that is extended to her. Clearly her experience and mine of a number of years is on opposite ends of the spectrum. Perhaps she has some unresolved issue that causes her to only see bad I don't know. We probably are the extremes in the mix with the truth somewhere in the middle. I never said that everyone's experience was a good one., but I can't support the view that all there was is abuse, rape, torture , and misery. I know too many that did not have that experience. Was it a picnic? of course not, as I said I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. This is a for the most part non way friendly site. we will never get to the honest middle if all we hear is rants on evil. I guess that's where my view comes in , to balance the perspective. Sorry but I know too many people that have lived the other side of the story to let someone re -write history. I'm willing to accept the bad I ask that others except the good. Due to the dynamics of this board I'm pretty sure that may never happen as those with axes to grind tend to congregate here and those without one don't. we will always be the minority. Just call me Mr. Fox News I'll always push for the fair and balanced view. It's a tough job but somebody's got to do it. It's insulting when someone only paints the picture of evil, abuse, rape, and all things bad when your experience is not, It would be equally insulting to those who experienced the other side of the spectrum to only acknowledge the good. All that I asked was to see each for what they are and as Abigail mentioned consider that maybe in all instances it was not doctrine that made these people do what they did, they may have just been that way regardless of where they ended up.

Yes Hap it was.