WhiteDove

Thanks WhiteDove. That clarifies that period better. It is an important fact that the Way of and the Way in are two different groups. One was connected to the Way of Ohio gang, the other wasn't. Well I think so, in the sense of Legal things anyway as I said just a guess but ( based on the fact that The Way liked to centralize everything into International it seems logical) I'm betting that the Way International held the rights to the Property as well as the material rights rather than the Way in Great Britain having the property rights. Chris would not have wanted to transfer the rights to the Way of Great Britain as that would have allowed The Way International control back over them at any given point as they setup the Way of Great Britain. That being the case he needed a corporation to transfer to. Side interesting note They never tried to sue later on for the use of the Way name. I wonder why this is not used as a case referal when other cases come up? If I'm getting it right - ? - the scheduled class in 1995 that didn't run was an early version or "the" version of the Geer class that's since been run in the U.S.A. by assorted ex-Way groups? Yes it was the version the first class available, the launching of the WIGP class, I think they had two sets of CD's done at the time. And contrary to John's statement he was very much still in the employ of The Way in Great Britain. Lots of people came in for the class from the US and around the world Chris's two daughters were scheduled to be students in the class. There were lots of ticked off people. Now I'm wondering why they didn't approve the licensing agreement. Sounds like the hosted Geer's teaching for the people that came in for it. Wonder why the class didn't fly? There were three trustees for the Way in Great Britain John Townsend, Robert Wilkinson, and Graeme Abernethy. Jonny signed off on the agreement the others did not ,it was a free license agreement he offered them in other words no license fee cost , but I don't know if the second part of the agreement was waved as well or not . The percent of ABS for The Way in Great Britain would have been a chunk of change to Word Promotions and that may well have been the point of contention. I think Chris made the call to offer something to those who traveled there since he could not get any clarification from the other two trustees as to what course of action they wanted to pursue. Understandably People spent a lot of time and money to get there I suppose he felt responsible to offer them something. Really it was pretty cowardly to leave it to him to face the people and tell them they were getting no class without giving them any information on why. There is about 45 minutes of information concerning the events on Gartmore Tapes # 347,357,362 of course it is only one side as the others never did respond or offer any defense or dispute the record. But it would be interesting archive information. I listened to them today to check the dates for Socks and to refresh my memory of the events.

Probably not David I think they dropped most of the requirements for that one My personal opinion it was very different than the usual Advanced Classes it was about Getting numbers (ie money) not quality in teaching. It was a very scaled down version at least from my POV.

Belle I think it was well before your time, It was required reading for the Advanced class at one time. There was a section of the AC exam on the book at the time. I 'm not sure they sold them in the bookstore I seem to remember that I had to dig one up at the local bookstore, but they may have had some at International at some point. At least it was more interesting than that snoozer class Basic Keys to Research that Donna Randal taught which we also had to take.

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[quote name='Jim' LOL, almost a coffee spew... So when I go in and ask for a roll of 12/2 Romex and a box of CAT5, he'll be the one with the blank stare? I hope he's working in the paint department. Most likely Jim, he could ask the Way Builders for help though....... OOPS nevermind , I forgot he fired most of them too.

Quote Socks Morning! Interesting. So in 1995, Geer had a working relationship with the Way IN Great Britain - is it correct to say that at that time that group didn't have a "friendly" working relationship with the Way of the U.S.A., the New Knoxville gang? I'm not challenging that - just wanted to clarify if possible. Yes I believe that would be a fair statement Craig said in March of 1989 that he no longer communicated with Chris ,but that the way had some business relationships with Gartmore House. Those as I remember changed as well not long after that. I believe that the Way in Great Britain Limited came about as a result of the transfer of material rights and the Gartmore property from the Way International. The only reason I'm asking is that I've gotten the impression 3rd hand and beyond that Geer had quit or been fired by the Way in GB, his own group, around that time but the facts are kind of mushy and I've never really tried to nail it down but reading this makes me curious. This clarifies that timeline better. Chris offered a intent to leave letter in late May 1995 but was employed until mid July. Partly due to the failed class that was advertised by the Way in Great Britain and then not run ,due to a part of the Trustees of the Way in Great Britain not approving the license agreement for the Walking in Gods Power Class . It was quite the mess with people arriving from all over the world only to find out that there was no class. Chris did teach another seminar of some sort for the week. and housing proceded as planned before. A related question I have, from a spectator's view, is why he did eventually leave that group. Or did he? Does he still have affiliations with them? No, I am not even sure that they are a viable entity at this point, once he departed they vanished from the screen. Robert Wilkinson became involved with Vince Finnegan. Chris does employ a few former Gartmore staff at Word Promotions. And another one too I guess - are the former New Knoxville-rooted Way of/in/from Europe, the collective groups that formed from New Knoxville's outreach back in the day - all severed from the Ohio Way? Just curious, if you do know. Thanks! Not sure but I would say that most left with the forming of The Way in Great Britain, after its demise I don't know what happened except for a few people. I think the Way International has a fellowship presence of some sort there but I am unclear on who may be attending if they were old way or from the Way in Great Britain days. The Kent's are still there I know but not with the Way

John Just for the record : Two points 1. The Way of Great Britain did not publish his book The Way in Great Britain did however. The Way of Great Britain was a Way International Ministry The Way in Great Britain was not. 2. While you are correct that they did not publish his class- Word Promotions did, Chris was very much a part of the Way in Great Britain when the class came out, he was still employed by The Way in Great Britain and the first class was scheduled to run at Gartmore House. Just thought you might want the real facts ..........

Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole.

I heard that as well Belle where else would a Big "Stud" work I guess he really is making more harmony in the home now, helping to complete all those hunny do fix up projects

Craig is not from Kansas he is a little south from Oklahoma. He did attend KU (Kansas University) in Lawrence KS, as did John Lynn's daughter a few years back. He never lived in Topeka to my knowledge nor do I think he does now. I can't see any reason for him to be here, there are not that many active Way people here or in the area for that matter. Wichita has always been the Limb. I can't think of any logical reason for him to be around this area. But if he is maybe Bowtwi can come up from the east and Oak my northern neighbor can come from the North and we can smoke him out...... Maybe he is a water boy for his old team the Jayhawks

Dear (((((((((((((((((WhiteDove)))))))))))))))))), Thank You for your contribution and the links! I am looking forward to wishing You a very Happy Birthday on September 29th...it might be nice to share that birthday withCJ. in a way; if you are humble and don't need much limelight (I am kidding you....Your heart is easily seen) ! I Love You WhiteDove, RainbowsGirl Actually I was named after Michael because I was born on his feast day. I guess it saved money on baby name books anyway, just look at the Catholic calendar for a name. Perhaps it was a good choice after all , Michael is considered to be the defender of the faith, perhaps that is where I get my propensity to defend truth from.

Then again Pigs do Fly........ So maybe there still is hope......

I think September is the best guess among those who do believe in Jesus some think the 11th some think the 29th which just happens to be the Doves birthday. Some are more inclined to think the 29th because it is also the Catholic feast day of St. Michael the Archangel and the linking of Jesus and Michael among some groups. (see Below link) Sept 11th 29th 29th Jesus & Michael

What? No has to like cheap plastic cups also.

Tonto Sorry been MIA for a few days and trying to catch up. First thanks but you did not insult me. I was just pointing out that referring to someone as ignorant ,TWIt head, Wierwille worshiper or a variety of other names is just as insulting as saying if you don't agree with me you are possessed is to other people. It's the same all or nothing thinking some people think they have left behind. Not really, they are just coming through the same door from the other side. Some are coming in the door with opinions closer to what we we all experienced in the Way, they see them as scriptural or biblical ( Time will tell if they are or not). And some are coming out of the caf'e door with GreaseSpot opinions which are predominantly not friendly to Way thinking or at times even Christian thinking. Opening the door in and yelling your possessed is no different than opening the door out and yelling your a ignorant TWIt head. The problem when entering is that many people have a misconception of where they are. They are looking for the blue plate special they have always had, in a cafe that changed the menu. This is not the ROA where all is love and bless you. Much like we all remember each other at times like the younger versions that we once were before we got old, people arriving tend to think of exway people as the way they remember them thinking years ago. It's a bit like seeing someone you knew as a bank president on the street pushing a shopping cart, It's like what happened to you? The other problem is that it is usually one person walking into a full lunch crowd who don't like the blue plate special they are looking for, and have no desire to see it on the menu again anytime soon.

Ha ! don't believe it! That Pig has more pies stockpiled than Sara Lee, what do ya think she was doing while she was away for the past months? She probably has a new and improved pie machine gun too.

:blink: What!!! No Rice a Roni?

Actually I agree with you on both points T-Bone I'm glad you saw the logic in the humor, speaking of inferring since you were I think we can infer from Luke 11 1 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. 2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. 3 Give us day by day our daily bread. 4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. This would have been the perfect opportunity for Jesus to say pray to me, to Mary, to angels, or add whoever you like here____ yet when asked this question lacking is any mention of anyone but The Father, Had Jesus wanted to get this great important message across that he was large and in charge of the prayer team would it not have made sense to take this wonderful opportunity to honestly answer this question. Are we to infer that he just misrepresented the answer on purpose when he really knew that they should be praying to him? Much like one could infer from scripture that poking a stick in someone's eye is not a good thing we can also infer from this record and many more adding the lack of other choices that are nowhere in the scripture to be found and get the point. Which is prayer is to the Father God not the son Jesus. Nowhere did Jesus say pray to him or do we see any one else doing so, including the disciples who obviously figured out what he meant when he taught them the answer to their question.

I think CFF will be fine... Not that most care I mean after all we all know that people who go to offshoots are .........what was the words ? Ignorant , Waybrained, twithead, PFAL worshipers. Nice............sense of community!

Hi Piggie butt!

That made my day Exie .......So Cool To quote another famous Kansan TIN MAN - What have you learned, Dorothy? Dorothy - Well, I -- I think that it -- that it wasn't enough just to want to see Uncle Henry and Auntie Em -- and it's that -- if I ever go looking for my heart's desire again, I won't look any further than my own backyard. Because if it isn't there, I never really lost it to begin with! Is that right? Rascal clicks his heels and says ........"There's no place like home" P.S. I hope he did not have a run in with the wicked witch of New York, Hillary although I wish he would have liquidated her and brought back her broomstick.

Here is a couple of more that Anthony did not author. Here "Adoni" was used which was a common word for one who was a master and ruler. Read Here

Well glad I could be of service, apparently you were laughing so hard you missed the point as well. Calling on the name of the Lord is not always IE prayer to start with and as I said the usage must be determined. There are words that refer to Jesus the Messiah as Lord but ADONI (adonee) is reserved for human superiors not someone you would pray to as a deity. Your references to prayer are to God not Jesus the lord ,as one having authority. You offered these as proof that we should pray to Jesus as instances of such lets look. Perhaps who to pray to is another point of distinction between Trinitarians and Unitarians. In my opinion, TWI made more of an issue out of it. To me, that's the influence of the PFAL-mindset that likes to draw up rigid rules, formulas, and principles for everything. While I do see passages that speak of prayer to the Father – I also find instances of prayer to "the Lord" – a title applied to Father and Son: Psalm 110:1-6 NKJV 1 The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." 2 The LORD shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion. Rule in the midst of Your enemies! 3 Your people shall be volunteers In the day of Your power; In the beauties of holiness, from the womb of the morning, You have the dew of Your youth. 4 The LORD has sworn And will not relent, "You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek." 5 The Lord is at Your right hand; He shall execute kings in the day of His wrath. 6 He shall judge among the nations, He shall fill the places with dead bodies, He shall execute the heads of many countries. Ok a prayer to God (Adonai) which also mentions Jesus the Messiah who is lord in our lives. hence (my lord) I missed the part about praying to Jesus in there. Where does it support that theory? I see God said to Jesus........ nothing about pray to Jesus. A simple prayer calling on the name of the Lord: Psalm 116:1-19 NKJV 1 I love the LORD, because He has heard My voice and my supplications. 2 Because He has inclined His ear to me, Therefore I will call upon Him as long as I live. 3 The pains of death surrounded me, And the pangs of Sheol laid hold of me; I found trouble and sorrow. 4 Then I called upon the name of the LORD: "O LORD, I implore You, deliver my soul!" 5 Gracious is the LORD, and righteous; Yes, our God is merciful. 6 The LORD preserves the simple; I was brought low, and He saved me. 7 Return to your rest, O my soul, For the LORD has dealt bountifully with you. 8 For You have delivered my soul from death, My eyes from tears, And my feet from falling. 9 I will walk before the LORD In the land of the living. 10 I believed, therefore I spoke, "I am greatly afflicted." 11 I said in my haste, "All men are liars." 12 What shall I render to the LORD For all His benefits toward me? 13 I will take up the cup of salvation, And call upon the name of the LORD. 14 I will pay my vows to the LORD Now in the presence of all His people. 15 Precious in the sight of the LORD Is the death of His saints. 16 O LORD, truly I am Your servant; I am Your servant, the son of Your maidservant; You have loosed my bonds. 17 I will offer to You the sacrifice of thanksgiving, And will call upon the name of the LORD. 18 I will pay my vows to the LORD Now in the presence of all His people, 19 In the courts of the LORD's house, In the midst of you, O Jerusalem. Praise the LORD! Ok another prayer to GOD (Adonai) Still not seeing those instances of praying to Jesus Corinthians is addressed to all who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: I Corinthians 1:1-3 NKJV 1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: 3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Ok here we have an address that speaks of calling on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord The word call is epikaleo - we do call on him as master, as head of the body, owner, ect. calling him according to his position of authority is not the same as praying to him. I might call upon the judge as your honor his authority title but I don't pray to him. So No prayer to Jesus here either. II Corinthians has a noteworthy prayer by Paul to the Lord about a thorn in the flesh. The Lord's answer was that His own strength ["the power of Christ"] would empower Paul! II Corinthians 12:7-10 NKJV 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong. Probably your best shot at a case. The word for lord kurios one having authority is used interchangeably in the scriptures. However the The record of this vision is further documented in verses 1-3 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. This was a vision not a real life prayer he speaks of being caught up into paradise which he had not physically been. I do not find any Scripture forbidding prayer to the Son nor passages that require us to draw sharp distinctions in the "process of prayer" – for want of a better term – that sounds so cold and mechanical. I view prayer as basically talking to God. I also think this has bearing with the recent discussion of a personal walk with Jesus. I thought of a few verses: I John 1:3-7 NKJV 3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things we write to you that your joy may be full. 5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. I Corinthians 1:9 NKJV God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. "Fellowship" in the above verses is koinonia [strong's # 2842] in the Greek text. Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old & New Testament Words by William Mounce, says of koinonia on page 247: …koinonia generally means "fellowship, communion, participation, sharing." …Paul uses koinonia to refer to the intimate fellowship shared between the believing community and Jesus Christ …John uses koinonia to refer to the Christian fellowship we have with one another . This fellowship is centered in and based on our common fellowship with the Father and his Son, Jesus . End of Excerpts The relationship…fellowship…communion…of believers is very similar to our relationship with the Father and Son. I see prayer…talking…as a natural part of our relationship with the Father and Son. As I indicated in post # 1508 [and again not saying my prayer life is the norm – just revealing how I think] – when I pray – I don't usually draw a distinction of who I'm addressing – and I don't think it matters – He who listens to my prayers and knows my heart can sort it all out. As I said There is also no scripture forbidding that says specifically that I can not put a stick in your eye are you suggesting that we can do things just because there is no line that says we can't? It does not say we can not pray to moon men either do I get to say that's ok as well? When the scripture says pray to God and no other choices are given I guess he thought we could figure out what he meant. Your choice how you choose to act, but it does not follow even the logical pattern of human communication Do you when you want to ask your boss a question walk into the room full of people and just ask amiss and let them sort it out or do you go to the person that you wish to find the answer from? If you are asking your friend for a ride do you also just walk into a room and say hey Joe can you give me a ride and let everyone there sort it out or do you walk up to Joe and ask him? It amazes me that people follow logical communication patters in life and yet when it comes to communicating with God they leave all those behind and dream up a new plan on how they think it should work. In summation there is /was no examples in the verses where anyone prayed to Jesus or where they were instructed to do so. If you want to your choice but claiming it is a biblical based thing is different. "fellowship, communion, participation, sharing is again different than praying I can do all of those here at GreaseSpot and not pray to people. You are stretching words that do not have a thing to do with praying and not the same as praying into meaning prayer and somehow adding Jesus into the picture when no mention of him is there in scripture..

Here is a link for you Adoni And another

Well that door swings both ways as I have observed if a person thinks that someone's opinion "sounds" Way like when in fact it may be just be scriptural then they are TWIT HEADS I don't see much difference there. How insulting, If you don't agree with me you are ignorant