WhiteDove

Burden of proof From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Burden of proof (Latin, onus probandi) is the obligation to prove allegations which are presented in a legal action. The Latin maxim necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit explains the rule that "the necessity of proof lies with he who complains." For example, a person has to prove that someone is guilty or not guilty (in a criminal case) or liable or not liable (in a civil case) depending on the allegations. More colloquially, burden of proof refers to an obligation in a particular context to defend a position against a prima facie other position. Civil law In civil law cases, the "burden of proof" requires the plaintiff to convince the trier of fact (whether judge or jury) of the plaintiff's entitlement to the relief sought. This means that the plaintiff must prove each element of the claim, or cause of action, in order to recover. The burden of proof must be distinguished from the "burden of going forward," which simply refers to the sequence of proof, as between the plaintiff and defendant. The two concepts are often confused.

Check back again sometime Tom I'll still be an advocate for fairness............

No one has said you could not or denied you to speak of your experiences all I said was it is dishonest to call things true that have not met the burden of proof for calling them so. You invent charges, ones that clearly are absent from any article on the front pages that have accurately reported the charges many are actual court documents they should know what the charges were, and you pass them off as some sort of understood truth. That is not your experience those were not your court cases.

Pawtucket said that this sight is to tell the OTHER side of the story....not a tool to entice people into leaving twi. Not my words I was only repeating what others often say that they do here.

You know Rascal I do believe Pawtucket does the best he can to post credible information and that he would like for us to as well. He does like people to include sources and respect copyrights and such. I have seen moderators delete things that were not factual. Sometime back I posted a article on the thread about the Way lawsuits over the name The Way that was written by VPW. There was interest in posting it on the front page archives. I was asked for the original article or a copy of it. I did not have an original only a reproduction from a book. Now I believe that to be an original article it has VP's writing style all over it. I don't as well think ,if it were not his someone would have gone to print with a book that would be in a public format if it were not his writing. But the decision was made that it lacked credibility without an original as proof . I understand that decision my opinion was not enough to make it factual. I'm sure that in the archives of the Way there is a copy of the Way Magazine it appeared in doubtful they will be of any help getting one. Someday I may find one but until such time my belief or opinion does not pass the test for a creditable source just because I say so or feel so. Proof was requested before something was established as factual which is all I have ever requested. Until I can find some it remains an article allegedly written by VPW. This is not my site and Pawtucket will decide what he does and does not allow on it . I'm fine with that, my experience is that he has been more than reasonable and fair in most situations.

Never said it was neither is it up to you to decide that posting truthful information is not . I can speak from having been in contact with several offsoots and discussing this. What do you have to back up your point? Why do you think so many don't participate here? The biggest complaint I have heard is credibility, too many people posting their guess, best memory, and other things as fact or truth, when the facts don't support that conclusion . You can assume what you want but most people expect information to make sense and not contradict itself, on the very same site. That does not lead people here.

Excathedra If that quote was in reference to me I'll again state what I said which was not the above. I have never said that anyone could not have an opinion, in fact that is what it is, an opinion. Anyone has a right to those. I have never in fact said that I don't agree with some of those opinions. But my agreement does not give me the right to misstate the truth in a public forum as a truth or a fact. Case in point tonight they are digging up the backyard in NC and gathering evidence of the missing marine girl. From the preliminary evidence it looks like they have found their man, my opinion would be they have,. But until they have a conviction the proper term in reference to him is alleged. I agree that "Many people commit crimes and get away with them because there is not enough evidence." I think OJ is one of those that's my opinion, but not a fact. I also understand the other side of that coin in that many people go to prison for crimes they never committed because of peoples opinions. And in the case of VPW it is unfortunate that the system failed to work due to his death. I can understand maybe somewhat or at least comprehend some of the frustration that any victim of crime must feel in those cases. I can comprehend the justice for victims, to in such cases refer to the person as guilty . the truth is two people know what went on in those cases. But for others who were not there to pick up that charge any relay it, is opinion ,it may well be a right one or it may be a wrong one but it is none the less an opinion they were not there . If the goal of this site is to help people learn the other side of the story then if we want credibility and you need that to do so , then it is IMHO that we need to speak factually. That means that it is important that the charges thrown about here are at least in agreement with those presented on the front page articles. To have conflicting information tends to diminish credibility. It tends to make the job easy for those who don't want the other side of the story to be told .They can point to the facts of what the charges were and to the inconsistencies of charges thrown about here and say see they are just a bunch of liars. The truth is while that may not be true it looks that way from what we have written. I just don't see how that can be productive in helping anyone. I won't assume that I can even imagine the the emotions a victem must feel in those cases when the system fails, the only thing I can say is that I believe one day the system will not fail and a right judgment will be made. But for me today I must accept our system of justice and support those rights that we do have as flawed as they may be.

You can click on the little plus at the right hand side at the top of this page where it says shout

I think they were concerned about the number of classes floating around as well maybe even one in Kansas but i wouldn't know anything about that And I think LCM wanted to make his mark in Way history maybe as well. But it was dishonest and I hold them to the same standard as anyone else. It did make for some interesting dialog though for several months. One of the things their attorneys asked for was a copy of my receipt that I had paid for the class. Having anticipated that move I had requested my permanent records before exiting. I answered that of course 1. no one ever got a receipt and if they did 2. really who would have it 19 years later. Then they wanted a copy of my original green card. So I sent back a page from their class instructors guide showing that they requested all of the signup cards be sent in with the payments and that their forms were not duplicate forms, so again no one would have a copy because they did not issue any. I just let them build their case which of course was that since I had no records and neither did they of my taking the class. Then I had no valid claim. Then I sent the copy of my permanent records on their letterhead with the postmarked envelope listing a gazillion class repeats ....... OOOPS I also sent the requirements for the other classes which of course was the foundational first. Oh no your not pinning that rap on Mr. Feathers...............

I filed a suit for breach of contract for not honoring the green card commitment By denying any repeat classes. Through the attorney general of Kansas., They stalled the thing until LCM could redo the class which was why they did it ,there were others who were pressing the matter as well. So they just retired the thing and renamed it and let us all know that they were not offering PFAL anymore.

Our ABS went to the branch and was used there, then to the Way of Kansas and was used, then what was left to the Way Int. Until around 1974 then it was all centralized to Ohio. I think we bought too many pizza's

No I believe it was in 87 0r 88 during Bob Win*garner's brief stint as the Limb Leader. the other where we lived was in 74. But yes I would agree from around here at least there were few incidents. Which was why we always had the Twig Pig and yes I heard about it but it did not deter me. When they switched to the beta format and were promoting buying machines we bought the first one in the area from the Pig money. Funny no one ever complained about using it ,nor where the money came from was never a problem then.

Yes I did, admittedly I did not not see the actual transaction so of course I would not claim to have but we had a family that had a fire in their home and The Way of Kansas paid for them to stay in a hotel until they could get back into the home As I recall it was around two weeks give or take a day. Ross T*acy paid for wallpaper and other items to repaper the house here where we lived and fellowshipped. I'll have to think I'm sure there were more. But I'd agree there were not enough. We employed a solution we started a twig pig which we used for such things separate from ABS.

Well there is the audio tape to prove my point. what you got? to prove yours?

Maybe he will leap out of his cage and eat us all like the last one did. Man it's tough being a tiger these days...........

Right What they said ; Do what God tells you to do Not what people think you should do. What they did; Do what God tells you to do Not what people think you should do. What I did (just a Bonus) Do what God tells you to do Not what people think you should do.

Don't feel sory for me I'm just fine I just don't worry about me. God takes care of me just fine, that's all I need, that leaves me free to serve others.

Do what God tells you to do Not what people think you should do. Great advice I learned this one at an early age ,it has served me well. Unfortunate that more did not learn it would have saved alot of grief.

Sorry I don't have anymore answers for you. What's in it for YOU".. don't know honestly I never considered it I rarely do it's not important to me that something is in it for me if the others benefit I perfectly happy. I may never know the others ,I may, not important either, Maybe that I know I treated people honestly and fairly and that their rights were supported who knows?

Maybe because the story was not about real people. but if it was then he should have .

Well when you learn to not mix two different posts, two different people and mix them together into one you may figure it out

Double post

Ok your wrong...... I don't perceive any attacks upon the organization, or the memory of the organization, as an attack upon me, they do not hurt personally. I perceive attacks on me to be attacks on me. The Others arn't they on Lost? ...... who knows who they are? every day they change, they are who the are and that is enough. one does not need to identify to serve, It is a Lifestyle of Service that we were called to.