WhiteDove

So how do they know to issue a license if you don't register?

I did By definition, it can change on a case by case basis depending on the topic as in the example I posted. The norm for the topic I gave example for is that children were corrected not beaten almost to unconsciousness.

Exactly his teachings which include PFAL ,which includes plagiarized material, which you think is garbage, sounds like you have a problem with some other people and their teachings.

So Wierwille was a prophet? I missed that......... Of course it is......... It has been pointed out that VP plagiarized most or all of the PFAL class word for word ,depending on what you accept. So tell me exactly how does sex change the words of others if their words were accurate into error. I mean What? Does it affect the motor control that they can't copy the work and read it back to others on video, Just how does that work ? If one guilty of moral decay reads for instance a page from Bulingers Bible on a subject is it like automatically converted into error when played back? How ridicules.

We agree on this, It ALL has to be checked. As to this If a Bible teacher is immoral, their agenda will affect what they teach, in large ways as well as small ways. They will seek-consciously or subconsciously- to justify their wishes, like God permitting sins they approve of, or that anyone who disagrees with their doctrine is defying God, living in error, or pursing a personal agenda. It is possible that it can go either way immoral persons don't necessarily reflect their personal beliefs into teaching. It is quite possible to teach scripture and lead a double life on the side . VP would not be the first to have done that.

In Kansas if you register an ordination then you are licensed as a minister for weddings and funerals. your state certificate would read minister. Oak would be listed as a minister in KS Is that the way it reads in Nebraska Oak? Just in case I want to branch out and give you some competition. Most likely they would just issue a license based on Kansas certification I'd think. Do they have you meet with a circuit judge before issuing a license. In Kansas they strongly suggest 6 hours of pre marriage counseling before recommendation as a marriage candidate .

I'll point out the obvious, which is that common knowledge is dependent on accurate testimony for it to be truthful. There have been lots of common knowledge stories over the years perpetuated both here and in the internet world that's why we have such sites as Snopes. Many times the first hand witnesses don't pan out when put to the test "they heard it from a reliable source" who probably heard it from another reliable source. We have all heard some of these common knowledge stories over the years like the Doobie Brothers were at the rock 73, or Paul Simon, or so and so was a PFAL grad that's what this song was talking about and so on.... Just for fun I looked at some of those threads where it was sealed in stone what was said. It looks to me like the posters could not remember who or exactly how or when it was said, nor the context it was said in . One could assume years later that they know, but the truth is one can not. One could go through for instance Nixon's records and say well see there he said "phone ", now I know that was about Watergate it's obvious.... Really? Context is everything David If we are discussing cars and I say maybe it's time for an upgrade to you . To then take that and import it into another context such as marriage for instance and say see there he told me to upgrade my wife. That would be untruthful now wouldn't it? It is common knowledge that some posted that they thought the context of the conversation was about legalism, and in that context "loosen up " takes on a different meaning. Here's a thought if this stuff was taught to the THE SECRET AGENDA SOCIETY. as some think then it is doubtful that there would have been to many first hand witnesses hanging around , not likely if it was a secret that VP would speak about it in public for sure, that kinda ruins the secret.... So when we get the context of the conversation at the time ,not what we suppose today, as well as whether these first hand witnesses actually were present or were told by another by another then we can see if it really is common knowledge. Until then as they say the juries still out......

Well lets correct the record first So, are you saying-or suggesting- that posters who reported that either were lying or deserved to get beaten down? I never spoke of beating anyone down nor did I say they were a liar. I did say that it was not the norm and as such suspect, I find it suspect as well when one person memory of events out of all the thousands who participated in the program differs drastically with the norm of the weightier percent. There are many reasons why that might happen but I'm sure you are smart enough to figure them out. I wouldn't ask, but YOU'RE the one who singled out that phrase and replied by pointing out some people lie and sometimes we don't know the reason someone does something like beat someone. Again what I said was" looking at the mental health background of some would tell you why they might think these things. Claims to experiences do not make them true by themselves, people claim things for a variety of reasons." While lying could be one of the reasons there are many others as well I never singled out one if you read what I wrote.

Then again someone that just wanted to learn the information presented, and either did not care what the teacher did or felt that the information presented was still useful despite the teachers actions still might not get it. I guess I need to go back and do a background check on all my school teachers to see if they have some error in their life that makes the English, or Math they taught invalid.

The definition would apply to the word in the way as well, thats how worrds work they use the same definition in each case they don't change their meaning to fit a group. By definition, it can change on a case by case basis depending on the topic as in the example I posted. This would not be the norm. Children in family corps were beaten almost to unconsciousness

Thanks Hap ,I could not find an author either here is the link though Link I saw the other thread after I posted, that will teach me to read before I post eh? Maybe someone can merge them together. If not maybe the topic deserves two threads anyway.

Here Here is a site to look on you can search by state or name Dennis is listed in CA as far as I know he is still there, but unles they update their info sometimes the emails are out of date

norm –noun 1. a standard, model, or pattern regarded as typical 2. general level or average: Two cars per family is the norm in most suburban communities. This would not be the norm. Children in family corps were beaten almost to unconsciousness

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming, We're finally on our own. This summer I hear the drumming, Four dead in Ohio. WOW 38 years ago today...... I can't believe that it has been that long ago. I wonder who and what these poeple would have grown up to become today? Ethical Spectacle, May 1995, http://www.spectacle.org Kent State, May 4, 1970: America Kills Its Children Twenty-five years ago this month, students came out on the Kent State campus and scores of others to protest the bombing of Cambodia-- a decision of President Nixon's that appeared to expand the Vietnam War. Some rocks were thrown, some windows were broken, and an attempt was made to burn the ROTC building. Governor James Rhodes sent in the National Guard. The units that responded were ill-trained and came right from riot duty elsewhere; they hadn't had much sleep. The first day, there was some brutality; the Guard bayonetted two men, one a disabled veteran, who had cursed or yelled at them from cars. The following day, May 4th, the Guard, commanded with an amazing lack of military judgment, marched down a hill, to a field in the middle of angry demonstrators, then back up again. Seconds before they would have passed around the corner of a large building, and out of sight of the crowd, many of the Guardsmen wheeled and fired directly into the students, hitting thirteen, killing four of them, pulling the trigger over and over, for thirteen seconds. (Count out loud--one Mississippi, two Mississippi, to see how long this is.) Guardsmen--none of whom were later punished, civilly, administratively, or criminally--admitted firing at specific unarmed targets; one man shot a demonstrator who was giving him the finger. The closest student shot was fully sixty feet away; all but one were more than 100 feet away; all but two were more than 200 feet away. One of the dead was 255 feet away; the rest were 300 to 400 feet away. The most distant student shot was more than 700 feet from the Guardsmen. Some rocks had been thrown, and some tear gas canisters fired by the Guard had been hurled back, but (though some of the Guardsmen certainly must know the truth) no-one has ever been able to establish why the Guard fired when they were seconds away from safety around the corner of the building. None had been injured worse than a minor bruise, no demonstrators were armed, there was simply nothing threatening them that justified an armed and murderous response. In addition to the demonstrators, none of whom was closer than sixty feet, the campus was full of onlookers and students on their way to class; two of the four dead fell in this category. Most Guardsmen later testified that they turned and fired because everyone else was. There was an attempt to blame a mysterious sniper, of whom no trace was ever found; there was no evidence, on the ground, on still photographs or a film, of a shot fired by anyone but the Guardsmen. One officer is seen in many of the photographs, out in front, pointing a pistol; one possibility is that he fired first, causing the others, ahead of him, to turn and fire. Or (as some witnesses testified) he or another officer may have given an order to fire. It is indisputable that the Guardsmen were not in any immediate physical danger when they fired; the crowd was not pursuing them; they were seconds away from being out of sight of the demonstration. There was also an undercover FBI informant, Terry Norman, carrying a gun on the field that day. Though he later turned his gun into the police, who announced it had not been fired, later ballistic tests by the FBI showed that it had been fired since it was last cleaned-- but by then it was too late to determine whether it had been fired before or on May 4th. It would be too charitable to say that the investigation was botched; there was no investigation. Even the New York City police, who are themselves prone to brutality and corruption, do a better job. Every time an officer discharges his weapon, it is taken from him, and there is an investigation. Here--to the fatal detriment of the federal criminal trial which followed--it was never conclusively established which Guardsmen had fired, or which of them had shot the wounded and the dead. Since all were wearing gas masks, it is impossible to identify them in pictures (many had also removed or covered their name tags, a classic ploy of law enforcement officers about to commit brutality in the '60's and '70's), and though many confessed to having fired their weapons, none admitted to being in the first row and therefore, among the first to fire. The ballistic evidence could have helped here, but none was taken. One rumor has it that the Guardsmen were told the same night that they would never be prosecuted by the state of Ohio. And they never were. The Nixon administration stalled for years, announcing "investigations" that led nowhere; White House tapes subsequently released show that Nixon thought demonstrators were bums, asked the Secret Service to go beat them up, and apparently felt that the Kent State victims had it coming. As did most of the country; William Gordon calls the killings "the most popular murders ever committed in the United States." The history of the next few years is very sad. A federal prosecution was finally brought, but the presiding judge is said to have signalled his preference for the defendants, guiding their attorney's conduct of the case to help them avoid legal errors. He dismissed all charges at the close of the prosecution's case, avoiding the need for a defense and taking the case away from the jury. Among his reasons: a failure to prove specific intent to deprive the victims of their civil rights; due to the lack of any investigation, it was almost impossible at this late date to show which Guardsmen shot which victim. In the New York City police force, which is far from perfect, officers who have killed or injured someone under questionable circumstances are often dismissed from the force even though there is not enough evidence for a criminal conviction; the standard of proof is not the same for an administrative action as for a criminal case. You don't want an unstable, sadistic person on the force, even though there may not be enough evidence for a criminal conviction. But the Guardsmen--even the one who confessed to shooting an unarmed demonstrator giving him the finger--were not deemed unfit to serve the State, even though they had fired indiscriminately into a crowd containing many passsersby and students on their way to classes. A civil suit brought by the wounded students and the parents of the dead ones deteriorated among infighting by the plaintiffs' lawyers. Unable to agree on a single theory of the case, they contradicted each other. The jury returned a verdict for the defendants. This verdict was overturned on appeal--the main ground was that the judge did not take seriously enough the attempted coercion of a juror who was assaulted by a stranger demanding an unspecified verdict--and a retrial was scheduled. On the eve of it, the exhausted plaintiffs settled with the state for $675,000.00, which was divided 13 ways. Half of it went to Dean Kahler, the most seriously wounded survivor, and only $15,000 apiece went to the families of each of the slain students, a pathetically small verdict in a day when lives are accounted to be worth in the many millions of dollars. The state issued a statement of "regret" which stopped short of an apology for the events of May 4th, nine years before. I write this just a week after the Kansas city bombing that appears to have taken 200 lives (the rescuers are still searching the wreckage) and the theme today is the same as 25 years ago. Hate was in the air then, as it is today. Admittedly, the First Amendment protects hate speech, whether it comes from the most marginal extremist or the highest public official. Demonizing someone else for their beliefs or their race, or even calling for their immediate assassination, is legal in America today and was twenty-five years ago. But the fact that something is legal to do does not make it right to do, or relieve the speaker of any moral responsibility for the consequences. President Nixon created a public atmosphere in which students who opposed the war were fair game for those who supported the government. In the week following Kent State, construction workers rioted on Wall Street, attacking antiwar demonstrators and sending many to the hospital, some permanently crippled. It was reported at the time that, a day or two after the deaths, President Nixon called the parents of the only slain student known to be a bystander--he was a member of ROTC--to express condolences. The phone never rang in the other parents' houses. The message couldn't have been clearer: they had it coming. I was fifteen that year, raised in a very comfortable middle class environment and very naive. Kent State was my political education. What I discovered that week, and that year, was that America in those times was perfectly willing to harass, beat and kill its own children if they disagreed with government policy. The step from being a member of the protected American mainstream to being a marginalized outsider, not entitled to the protection of law enforcement and fair prey to any violent, flag-waving bully who happened to pass, was to stand up and say you did not believe the Vietnam war was right. I am not sure that anyone too young to remember those times can really appreciate what it was like. We know today the extent to which the FBI was involved in dirty tricks, illegal wiretapping and burglaries against even moderate antiwar organizations. Prior to Kent State, I had joined an organization called Student Mobilization Against the War. One day, their offices were burglarized and their membership lists stolen. We had no doubt at the time that it was the government, and we were right. I led demonstrations that week outside my high school protesting the Kent State killings and, afterwards, the principal summoned me and my father to his office and threatened to have me expelled as a trouble-maker. My father--I am very proud of him, as he was not an ideological man and his opposition to the war was very muted--replied that if I was expelled, he would fight it "all the way to the Supreme Court." I had done nothing else than exercise my First Amendment right of protest. We heard nothing more about expulsion, but a close friend of mine, who didn't have an assertive parent to stand up for him, was thrown out of school. That week, people came out of the woodwork--wearing black leather, chains wrapped around their fists, waving American flags--people we had never before seen in our neighborhoods. These patriots set up a counterdemonstration across the street from ours. For hours, a rumor was rampant that they would attack us and that the police would not intervene--exactly what had happened on Wall Street a day or so before. Their cursing and chain-rattling became uglier until finally they summoned their courage and charged. Someone shouted "Link arms!" and five or six teenagers, me among them, joined to interpose our bodies between the attackers and demonstrators. The Brooklyn police, unlike those on Wall Street, or the National Guard in Kent days earlier, did not seek or condone the killing of children. They ran in and forced the attackers back. I was fifteen then and am forty now, but I have never had a finer moment in my life. It was the only moment in my life that I came close to living up to Gandhi's statement that "we must be the change we wish to see in the world." Here are the names of those who died at Kent State, so that they may not be forgotten: ALISON KRAUSE JEFFREY MILLER SANDRA SCHEUER WILLIAM SCHROEDER

Then again when one experience does not fit with the norm one must look at all the reasons why that might be. Just because someone claims they had a experience does not make it so either. I know people who think they were alien abducted most people would think that not to be true, looking at the mental health background of some would tell you why they might think these things. Claims to experiences do not make them true by themselves people claim things for a variety of reasons.

Maybe Thomas just had a bad day, or maybe he had a Clue flashback Oldiesman in the Cafe with the Lead Pipe.

Would that pipe be three inches in length or diameter? Just Wondering? In case you start swinging you know.........

Speaking of music if anyone is interested I have some CD's of Brian Bliss's music they have 20 of his greatest hits on one CD. Some new some old songs. We sell them for the same price as Brian does $20.00 we'll pay the postage. Also for anyone in the Kansas area short notice but Brian will be in Manhattan, KS on May 2-5 to do a weekend. Here is what he is up to these days. Link

Belizean BRC, Anthony and Amy Gilmore recently bought the bookstore from Delores Seames she started it as a part time hobby and it became full time work. She was looking for someone to take it and keep it running. I considered it but in the end declined having already absorbed the inventory of another store The Red Thread Bookstore also California based years ago, I did buy some of her inventory for ours though and Anthony took the rest. That may be the last of the CA Bookstores The Bible bookstore closed after Jim Stutz passed away The Red Thread we bought out and now Eternally Blessed has been taken over by the Beliezan BRC. Doug Seed may have some items for the area but not a bookstore as such.

What ? Did the Jayhawks steal all your women along with that title too?

Will there be nakid dancing around the May Pole to the north of me? Beltane or Walpurgis Night is the festival centering around the planting of crops and fertility as I remember. In Satanic circles who are less concerned with the cycles of nature but more with the machinations of evil it is refered to as Grand Climax. Additionally every 28 years when the Satanic calander revolves it culminates in a year long series of celebrations of evil known as "The Feast of the Beast" The next one by the way is 2009 next year...... Just in time for the elections where we will crown a new beast........ :blink:

Well that's a nice theory Lindy as theories go, except for the fact that what people believed was their own choice, we all have free will to choose what we choose to accept, or not accept. I can give you examples of people who did not believe that as well. So? Some believed it, some did not, that does not validate the comparison either way it's a matter of opinion how you want to see things ,That's Agenda by the way. You assume you are right because that's the way you want the outcome to be. I could assume the same based on my examples. The truth is neither validates the comparison as I said. And then to further assume that because someone will not accept your opinion as fact, that they have no sympathy is a giant leap with no reasoning to support it. It is two entirely different things.

And people wonder why we buy our Airplanes from places besides Boeing?

I don't believe that to be a fair statement Oldies has expressed how he feels about that on several occasions. You seem to equate agreeing with someone's opinion of what is comparable or not, with sympathy for a situation it's not the same. One might feel sorry for someone that is sick for instance, but that does not mean that comparing them to something that is not comparable is true, nor that because they refuse to accept a untrue comparison that they have no sympathy either. You equate because Oldies does not accept a false comparison with VP that he has no sympathy for an individual. I'd say he does indeed ,but that sympathy does not include accepting anything as truth as part of the deal.

No Doubt, Couldn't have said it better.