WhiteDove

WOW TRUTH, JUSTICE, AND AMERICAN WAY That sounds like something the bird would say....Oh wait he did. Glad to see my post inspired you Mr. Tongue Man, not bad for a morally repugnant, intellectually vapid, psychologically unsound, rife with logical fallacies, contentious, malignantly opinionated, and mean-spirited.... post. Oh wait I see you went back edited that inspired part out of you post. Upon reading the snips of judge John D.Schmitt that you provided it appears to me that he correctly ruled that The right to believe is absolute. The right to act is subject to reasonable regulation. I concur with his ruling They are two separate things, belief of truth and actions are not one in the same. I think a few of us have been saying that for awhile around here. We absolutely have the right to believe and accept scriptural truth despite or regardless of any good or bad actions by the speaker. Actions of the speaker while subject to civil law as they should be ,do not however change the truth of scripture or earthly knowledge one can learn from their words into untruth. If one beats his dog does that make 2+2 not equal 4, hardly, if one is morally unsound does that change by magic the truth of the scripture , Doubtful. Now another issue as some have brought before us is....... does it change they way one might or might not accept what the person is saying? I believe that most of us agree that it could affect the believability of such a message, but that is not one in the same as nullify the message. It may to the hearer , that is the choice of each hearer, but the truth of the message still none the less is intact regardless of the opinion of each hearer. Another words one may not accept that 2+2 =4 from a immoral person ,but that fact remains that it does not change the truth that it does equal 4. It only prevents the hearer from accepting and believing the truth due to their actions. Another may not care about their actions, they may just want to learn math and so to them the lesson is learnable despite the moral state of the teacher. Scripture is not dependant on the teachers actions either Christians accept it as so because God declares it so ,in spite of mans actions. I think that is the message of Romans (Good for us......) I think we all understand that one should be living the words we speak, as best as we are able. But when we don't it does not make the words of the scripture untrue. The judge rightly rules Clearly he understands that belief of truth and actions are in fact two different things. I think the bird has said that as well. VP's actions are subject to a legal ruling as any other person, their fair day in court. A real one not the kangaroo court of the internet. As such that ruling would be binding ,and proof of burden, "in essence truth" regarding the matter. Trouble is we seem to be missing any case number where that happened. As such we then can conclude that we have no case, or ruling to establish guilt or innocence to refer to. In short no legal ruling. As such it is not documented. And you are entitled to such, but that makes it what it is an opinion only not truth. Others may have differing opinions, they are not truth either. As the good judge pointed out in his wisdom, actions by a person are independent of what they believe, actions do not affect belief, truth, teaching, or many other things, but they are accountable however under law. I concur with this ruling as well. I think I have through the years been an advocate of a day in court, due process of law to establish guilt or innocence for the alleged offender.

Well we disagree on this point, many of the teachings have far from failed me , in fact they have saved me, time and time again from consequences of unscriptural decisions through the years.

I was 18 and?

] Yeah I was from 73 - 88 I left on my terms although I suspect had I not been smart enough to have planned I would have eventually been given the boot for non compliance with their letter of demand.

If one was confident in their walk with the Father then it really does not matter what others think . I think they realized that they were not a disappointment to God no matter what line someone thought to spout. So what if they think less of you that's their problem ,given the choice I'd rather have people think less than God think less of me.

Why should she she has just as much right to post as you do here.

You seem to believe that I have some desire to prove my statement to you , I don't! If you doubt it you can look it up yourself. Since it's true because I say so seems to be the norm around here I guess I'll just follow the crowd

I have not seen Gumpy biut he may have been mistaken for a troll, it happens here sometimes. You might check the cyber jail he may be on vacation there. I have to go to work now would you mind watching the stew and maybe a stir now and then? They are indeed his opinions ,I don't recall that I said they were not.as such they are not documentable. Of course I'm free to share them as is anyones else, as long as one does not pass them off as truth.

If a career was so important to you then why did you not do so , I don't recall anyone chaining you to a log around the campfire and making you sing. Lots of people went off school sounds like you want to blame someone else for a choice that you failed to make. No Jeno I do not I think that's a Nein for you le bump

Haven't looked nordo I intend to ,that would be your job.

Well I'll give you credit for finally admitting it...... I post here because I choose to like everone else .......Oh and for Truth Justice and the American Way............ We want the Bump.... Gotta have the Bump... Ahh We need the Bump.... Got to have that Bump......

Fine with me .....So I guess Mr Geer was right apperantly the pre chewed food was not to your liking either?

So..... how many people does it take to make something true ? if I find several does that mean everything I say about you is true ? Doubtful.....So you really expect me to believe it is a numbers game the one with the most wins? I don't share your formula for truth Sorry.

I'll address this to Pawtucket and no one else...... no response is necessary I don't have much to say either. I know your preference is to do these things by email but since the message is out here now I'll do it here as well. I have found you to be generally fair in your decisions, which is why I was surprised at your request. You think I crossed a line, I think I was in the boundaries of the rules, in the end it was your decision, you pay the bills. I'm good with that. I do have to say had it not been for the personal attack which I'll point out had nothing to do with the subject and the GreaseSpot mission I had no intention of posting there. Calling me or us a Wierwille apologist is the same thing as calling a black man a nigger to me. It's hate speech designed to produce exactly what it did. I did not tolerate being bullied while in the Way and I don't intend to start now. My opinion is that many here have the problems they do because they never stood up for their boundaries and they unfortunately now won't get that chance again no matter what goes on. Every one of us that gets lumped into that category of a Wierwille apologist (despite the fact that most of us agree with many of the points made in regard to Wierwille/The Way with the exception of Mike maybe) have asked that we not be referred to as such, since it continues one can draw no other conclusion than it is an deliberate attempt to cause reaction, that was the case on your thread. And yet we are the ones who get the heat for stepping over the line when we point it out. I've said it before if one does not want to see the bull charge then don't wave red flags in front of it, and don't blame the bull when he does. If the intent of the thread was indeed to contain the mission of discussion of the book then I have to ask what purpose does allowing even today the cheap shots to continue ? Are they not disruptive to the subject as well? Why are they not gone and stopped as well if keeping the thread on topic is the goal? This thread is an example it has nothing to do with MS. Skedgells book and yet it follows over here. And now pages later it is some how the Wierwille apologists fault for the ensuing battle. Look at the post trail see who brought up the book , It was none of us and I documented it at the start as such as I could see the direction it was headed in. That's not a complaint just a observation.... I'm a big boy and can take it as well as give it. In the end I won't loose any sleep over it. Ok maybe I had more to say than I thought........

I have better things to do than chase them all down for you so you can argue every fine point ,you can look them up yourself.

You might take a moment to read exactly to who my post was to . it might give you a clue as to exactly how dumb this remark is. I realize that you think we all are in awe of you but it just ain't so. What was your name again? When you can read get back to me.......

I call it the facts, although the post is deleted now the post was in fact as I stated. The poster thought it was some special talent that I possessed. My intent was/is to prove that it was not, that it was available to all who choose. It has been proven in studies that such sharing's help victims, in recovery as they are inspiring. Surely you don't wish that not to happen?

Or another possibility, we did not wish to drink the Kool Aid flavor of the day Bitter Apple, me I'm a "life is a bowl of Cherries Cherry" kind of guy maybe the stand will offer it as a choice in the future. Although it's not looking promising as the Bitter Apple sales seem to be going well. at least here..

I'll just bold my previous remarks as I expected this to come up ........ I think the record will show exactly who it was who started this here. Look at the post trails......

I think Oldies point was that he did post within the perimeters allowed as defined by the rules, but then the perimeters sprouted legs and moved like a moving target. Me I don't care in particular only that if a reason is given one should not allow others to do the same thing without reprimand as well.

I failed to see where the rule was( as he mentioned) not I failed to see that he mentioned it in a post. Sloppy sentence my fault...... By the way since when is selling a book and promotion of an interview akin to having a memorial thread? Not even close.........

My opinion is that the information in the book is not documentable/or has not been done, as such it is a one sided view, a personal testimony, opinion, which contains all or part truths. Clearly the intent is to make money, otherwise it would have been offered for free as a blog or a download. That in itself has nothing wrong with it, she put the work into the book and deserves any payoff. But when selling the ideas to me I consider that money is the goal of the work or at least one of them. I'll choose to take that into consideration as I would any other person writing a book. As to truth in books I have yet to find one that has the all truth in it including VP WIERWILLE'S. by the way, were also written for the intent of money. As to your question There are lots of them around. Wouldn't want to out any so I'll let you figure that out for yourself.

I'll just point out that neither of us called someone a name which you did. That is a violation of the rules ,at least the ones posted. We on the other hand offered an opinion ,ours to offer. I failed to see where as Oldies mentioned that differing opinions other than the GreaseSpot mission were not allowed. Speaking of rules I see that others are allowed to take cheap shots at us still on the thread. If disruption of topic was the real reason, then I'd think that these would be deleted as well. And yet they are not. Speaks volumes to me.

Ha! Get over yourself WD, my opinion still is, you were owned and you know it, DontWorry tore thru your whole MO with brilliant logic and precision, in fact it was your own actions and words that convicted you. I see you added the word opinion in your statement, smart move So get mad at yourself and not at us for outing you and your illogical viewpoints. For all your whining and disruptions, and verbal rampages on the "Losing the Way" thread, you owe all of us who posted there a big fat APOLOGY, maybe you should start there rather than pointing fingers at us! Deflecting the blame upon the rest of us here, rather than looking at yourself is a rather tired, but classic twi trait. The post record speaks for itself I owe you nothing ,which is what you get. Here is another classic TWI trait, Washed up MOG"S thinking that they somehow can enlighten us with great wisdom. I also think you live in a pretty closed world if you think you're the only one who gets to determine what's post worthy and what's not, your whole intent in the other thread was to tell us all Kristin's story was worthless and whatever you think and say is gold. Want to know what the redeeming subject content of my "owned" post was? We were right, and you were wrong!!! Maybe you should learn from it...The fact that every one of your posts on that thread were deleted clearly shows what the consensus here is regarding your posts. Dream on, perhaps you should start working on that apology. I missed the place where I posted that, perhaps you can find it for me ,otherwise I'll just accept the fact that you simply made it up. I'm sorry for all who are naive enough to believe that the media is fair, The truth is that the one who pays the bills gets to choose what they want displayed. Not a good plan for fair speech but none the less the way it is. If one does not like the rules then he can pay the bills. What gets printed confirms no right or wrong only that the bill payer gets the choice in what is displayed.