I did not vote either as I did not find a choice that fit. But I would respond to this quote by Diazbro:
Do not underestimate the impact that Waytraining has on the exWayfer's opinion of the Catholic church and mainstream churches in general. I know plenty of former way people who have been out for 15 years who characterize *all* major denominations as being "evil". For me its distrubing that they don't realize that their fear and loathing of these institutions are based on comments by Way leadership as opposed to personal experience.
I dont think so! Even with today's Molestation issues aside the Catholic Church History speaks for itself, and it ain't pretty. These sicko's make the Way look like the Micky Mouse Club....
Here is a little of 12 years of Catholic School basic Church History without Way comments. You can look it up in any Church History Book.
And now, in no particular order...
It was said that Pope John XII (955-64) invented sins that had not been known since the beginning of the world and whole monasteries spent days and nights praying for his death. He turned his home, the Lateran Palace, into a brothel. He used the papal treasury to pay off his gambling debts. He died on May 14th 964 aged twenty-four, after he was caught in bed by the husband of one of his mistresses in 'the very act of adultery'.
Pope Innocent VIII (1484-92) sired eight illegitimate sons and probably as many daughters, of whom he openly acknowledged. His reign as Pope was known as 'The Golden Age of Bastards'. He authorised an inquisition against those thought to be witches. On his death bed a wet nurse was found for his final craving - woman's milk.
Pope John XXII (1316-34) excommunicated fellow clergymen for not paying their taxes.
In 1932, Pope Pius XI (1922-39) as well as condemning contraception, ordered German Catholics to drop their hostility towards Hitler. He also backed Mussolini's invasion of Abyssinia.
Pope Celastine II (1143-44) had a certain Count Jordan condemned to a horrible death, he was strapped naked to a scalding iron chair while a red-hot crown was nailed to his head.
Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) instituted the approved method of interrogation of suspected sodomites. In order to make them confess, suspects were lowered naked onto a red-hot spike. This method was kept until the year 1816.
Robert of Geneva was well known for his ability to decapitate a man with a pike. He became Pope Clement VII (1378-94) and was 'much given to fleshy pleasure'. He surrounded himself with page boys, whose jackets, it was noted, shrunk from being knee length, to mid-buttock 'or even worse'.
Pope Benedict XIII (1394-1417) gave a dispensation to the twenty-nine-year-old Richard II of England to marry Isabella, the seven-year-old daughter of the King of France.
The child-pope Benedict IX (who became Pope at the age of 12!) was bi-sexual, sodomised animals, ordered murders and dabbled in witchcraft and Satanism. He loved to throw wild, bi-sexual orgies. Benedict IX held the post of Pope in the years 1032-44, 1045 and 1047-48. He was described as "A demon from hell in the disguise of a priest...", and St Peter Damian said of him: "That wretch, from the beginning of his pontificate to the end of his life, feasted on immorality". Dante estimated that under Benedict IX the papacy reached an all-time low in immorality and debauchery. When he was 23 he survived an assassination attempt (strangling at the altar during Mass). Benedict went on to marry his cousin and sell the papacy to his godfather, Gregory VI.
Pope Boniface VII (974; 984-85) was described as: "a horrid monster" and "a man who in criminality surpasssed all the rest of mankind".
In the year 440 Pope Sixtus III (432-40) was tried for the seduction of a nun.
Pope Leo I (440-61) was a warped and sadistic torturer. He made his victims confess that they mixed semen with the sacrament and used young girls at the altar for the purpose. He was the first Pope to claim the right to put anyone who disagreed with him to death.
Pope Pius VII (1800-23) comdemned bible societies as "a most abominable invention that destroyed the very foundation of religion".
It was widely rumoured that the ex-pirate Pope John XXIII (1410-15) was an Atheist. He tortured his own cardinals and was said to have "had wicked company with two of his own sisters". Robert Hallum, Bishop of Salisbury said that he: "ought to be burnt at the stake".
The homosexual Pope Paul II (1464-71) liked to see naked men being racked and tortured. Alledgedly, he died of a heart attack whilst being sodomized by one of his favourite boys.
Pope John XIII (965-72) { yes, I know there was more than one John XIII } was condemned as an adulterer who "defiled his father's concubine and his own niece". He was said to have died at the hands of an enraged husband, caught in the act of adultery - just like his dad, Pope John XII.
Pope Sergius III (904-11) enjoyed sex with underaged girls. According to the historian Baronius, Sergius III was "the slave of every vice". When he was 45, Sergius took a 15- year-old mistress - the affair produced a son who went on to become Pope John XI.
Pope Stephen VI (896-97) had the body of his predecessor, Pope Formosus (891-96) dug up, dressed in papal vestments, set on a throne and tried for perjury and coveting the papacy.
Pope Benedict XII (1334-42) was such a hardened drinker that the expression "drunk as a pope" became popular in his lifetime.
Pope Anacletus (1130-8) committed incest with his sister and several other female relatives. He enjoyed raping nuns.
Pope Clement VI (1342-52) was described by Petrarch as "an ecclesiastical Dionysus with his obscene and infamous artifaces". Clement VI slept with prostitutes and had dozens of mistresses. When he died, fifty priests said Mass for the repose of his soul for nine consecutive days, but it was generally agreed that this was not going to be nearly enough to prevent the dead pope from going directly to hell.
Pope Pius II (1458-64) had been a well known author of erotic literature, and had fathered about 12 illegitimate children.
The Sistine Chapel was built by Pope Sixtus IV (1471-84). He had six illegitimate sons, of which one was the result of an incestuous relationship with his sister.
Pope Julius II (1503-13) who commissioned Michelangelo to paint the ceiling of the the Sistine Chapel, was a paedophile and spent much of his time with small boys and male prostitutes.
In the year 1095 Pope Urban II introduced the callagium, a sex tax which alllowed the clergy to keep mistresses, provided they paid an annual fee to the papacy. This had the immediate effect of reducing the use of concubines and hugely increasing clerical homosexuality.
Pope Paul III (1534-49) enjoyed an incestuous relationship with his daughter. To gain control of his family inheritance, he poisoned several relatives, including his mother and neice. He killed two cardinals and a Polish bishop to settle an argument over a theological point. Paul III was probably Rome's biggest ever pimp - he kept a roll of about 45,000 prostitutes, who paid him a monthly tribute.
Pope Julius III (1550-55) sodomized young boys, of which one was his own, illegitimate, son. He appointed several handsome teenage boys as cardinals. Cardinal della Casa's famous poem In Praise of Sodomy was dedicated to Pope Julius III.
Testing the Claim of Scriptural Support
Was Peter the Foundation of the Church?
Matt 16:16-19 - This passage is the foundation for papal authority. It may appear here that Jesus is telling Peter that he is the rock upon which the Church would be built. Several problems exist with this interpretation however. Many scholars find that Jesus is referring not to Peter, but to his confession of faith made in the verses just before this one. It was upon acknowledgment of Jesus as the Christ that the Church would be built, not on a mere man. Evidence for this follows:
"Peter" (petros in Greek) and "rock" (petra) in this passage are two different words with two different meanings. Petros is a small stone while petra is a huge rock. The play on words seems to be intentional.
The pronouns used to refer to Peter in this passage are always 2nd person, the reference to the rock is 3rd person, thus separating the two.
Even if Peter was the rock being referred to, he was not the only rock - nor was he the chief rock (Eph. 2:20; Revelation 21:9-14; Matt. 21:42-45; 1 Peter 2:4-7; ).
Was Peter Promised Infalliblity?
Luke 22:32 - This passage is not a prayer for Peter's perfect wisdom in matters of faith, it is instead a prayer for his perseverance after his coming trial (which he would fail). Peter's faith did not leave him entirely even after his denial - an affirmative answer to Christ's prayer. A simple look at the whole passage (22:31-34, 55-62) confirms this.
Nowhere in the Bible is Peter (or anyone else) ever said to have this supposed infallibility.
Testing the Claim of Traditional Support
No Historical Support
No pope ever had the powers bestowed upon the apostles to seal their claim of apostleship.
It was the Emperor, not the Bishop (pope) of Rome who originally held supreme power over the church for many centuries.
The Church Fathers did not agree with the interpretation of Matt 16:16-19, it was only used later to bolster their false claim.
No church council in the first 1,000 years of church history were called by popes.
For the first 1,000 years of the church's existence not a single doctrinal issue was decided by a pope.
The infallibility doctrine was cause for 55 bishops to leave Vatican I in protest. It then passed by less than half of the original voters (535/1084) supporting the idea.
The pope in power at Vatican I was deposed less than 2 months after papal infallibility was declared.
Fraudulent documents like The Donation of Constantine and Isidorian Decretals were at the foundation for much of the supposed tradition of Roman Catholic teaching, and although found to be false by the 1500's, are followed today.
Papal Problems
Heresy - Pope Honorius I was condemned by the church for heresy regarding the nature of Christ. This is obviously a large problem for Roman Catholicism's claim to the pope's inability to be mislead on issues of doctrine!
Multiple Popes - In the history of the Roman Catholic Church there have been no less than 35 "anti-popes", two opposing popes in authority at the same time. There is no infallible list of popes, nor an infallible method of knowing which one was the "real" pope. So which is it?
Roman Catholicism's Heritage
The Inquisition - It is a historical fact that the Roman Catholic Church has killed more Christians than any other religious institution in man's history (some estimates put the death toll at 50 million). The fact that the Roman Catholic Church no longer has the power to enforce its policies should not make us any more comfortable, for the infallible pronouncements made to create the Inquisition are technically in force today.
The Crusades - Many are unaware that there were actually several crusades commissioned by popes. Beyond the "noble" crusades that set out to free Jerusalem from the Saracens, there existed crusades against Christians! In fact, those who took part in them were promised absolution for all sins committed while on crusade. The slaughter of the innocent that ensued, not to mention the horrible atrocities against women and children, should come as no surprise.
Indulgences - The main issue that prompted Luther to separate from the Roman Catholic Church was the selling of indulgences. For a small fee you could get your loved ones out of Purgatory and into heaven.
Galileo - in 1633 Galileo was tried under the Inquisition for heresy for his discovery of a non-geocentric universe. Because the Roman Catholic Church followed Ptolemy's idea of an earth-centered universe Galileo remained under house arrest as a heretic until his death.
Adolph Hitler - In contrast the Roman Catholic Church never excommunicated Hitler (although past popes have been dug up after death, dressed in robes, and brought to trial only to be excommunicated by other popes). In fact it celebrated his 50th birthday with special ceremonies and prayers for his success (which only helped Roman Catholicism due to numerous treaties made with various european dictators throughout its history). Hitler died a Roman Catholic in good standing.
Conclusion
Is the history of Roman Catholicism a testimony to its leaders inability to be deceived? Hardly. The Roman Catholic Church has never recanted or apologized for any of its above actions. Examples of hypocrisy and outright sin of the Roman Catholic Church could be easily multiplied. Volumes could (and have been) written on papal abuses, sinful obsessions, and false teachings. How can any honest person look into these matters and come away believing that the pope is God's "vice-regent" on earth? a man whose official title, "vicar of Christ", translates literally into "anti-christ"? The title is apt, for to millions of Roman Catholics around the world, the pope stands in the place of Christ.
