WhiteDove

Oldies I think you got the point, I would not either. Just because something teaches kids how to read does not mean that it is healthy for them to do so nor does it lend support for the value of the work.

Raf Raf I moved the thread after it became a sourse of derail on Steves thread as a courtesy to him after reflection. Please see rule 2 above I'm sorry you insist on inserting your name for I. I spoke for myself and what I see as my responsibility. I did not speak for you or anyone else. If you insist on adding your name in place of the I then I suppose there is little I can do.

Gee Belle maybe because their are a pack of you to answer and only one of me .

Gee Garth Like Eve I think you changed a word I don't believe I said denying I said question my right One look at the title of this thread will tell you that it is not for Harry Potter fans BUT I have never questioned peoples reasons to post here. They do because the can and or wish to. Subtle intimidation and calling into question peoples motives and reasons and generally makeing people feel they have no right to speak is a very effective tactic to silence people. It was is used in the Way to perfection. Sadly it also has a place here. That is why we no longer see so many fonts posting here anymore. Just last night I spoke to someone whose poster name you would recognize immediatly and they expressed the same sentiment to me they were tired of having their Christian views called into question at every turn from the hound pack. So they left,their choice but our loss. As for me I was not moved by their tactic in the Way nor am I here.

Garth Ahem. Quote Belle: It's okay if you don't like Harry, but I wonder what the purpose was for your comments. I mean, if you don't like Harry then why even bother? Translation :Please explain to us why you think you should post about this. Becaause my opinion didn't agree with the crowd then I suppose I should explain my reasons or not even bother.Oh I get the English. PS So did all the people who emailed me.

Looks like somebody came out of the mod closet I suppose so thanks for letting us know your are here

You won't speak for the decisions anyone else makes, but you will not contribute to the dumbing down of society. You won't speak for anyone else on this, but you won't participate in this devilish deception. You won't speak for anyone else on this, but you won't surrender your responsibility to be vigilant. You won't speak for anyone else, but you won't reject scripture. In saying each of those things, you are saying that those Christians who disagree with you are contributing to the dumbing down of society, participating in a devilish deception, surrendering their responsibility to be vigilant, and rejecting scripture. If that's what you think, fine, stand by it. But you can't argue that it's not what you're saying, because it is precisely what you're saying. Sorry Raf but that is not what I said I can only speak for myself. Thats the truth I don't have the ability to speak for others or the desire. I can be accountable for my own choice to be vigilant no one else's. In short I said "This is what I am doing" what everyone else is doing is their choice and God can be the judge as to what their intentions are or were. That said we do have scripture as a referance point and offen it is pretty clear if ones actions are in agreement.

I go along with the first If you like it, great. If you don't great I agree but if you question my right to state my opinion and or misrepresent scripture then this is the result.

Rascal you are not making a fair comparison you are using not the Bible but rather what some people twisted it to say and then comparing it with fantasy books as if it were true scripture. It is not what the Bible says as you indicated no more than if I misdirected your words and passed them off as yours. You can't take a distorted version and pass it off as the real thing. You said and I Quote:The most destructive doctrine ever foisted off on people came from the scriptures dove.... Forced sex, forced abortion, forced divorces, forced abandonment of ones children...justification of adultery, justification of the destroying of ones brother, justification of covering felonies..... Show me just one scripture from a Bible that supports any of these ideas sorry it is not in there. Get out a concordance and look up each word you will see that it is simply not in the Bible as you said.

Effective this date 7/20/05 Due to the fact that common English seems to be lost on some postings and due to the need not to cover the same points over and over the following will be in effect for all postings by the poster known as Whitedove Henceforth: 1. American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language will be the reference for all words. If you don't like the meaning take it up with them. Words have meanings and that is the way it is. 2. From this day forward the word "I" as per rule1 will mean the first person singular pronoun in the nominative case. Used to represent the speaker or writer.(that’s me) . When I use the word I it will refer to me the poster known as Whitedove and or my opinions or views. Anyone substituting any other word such as us, them, us, anybody, you, or any other word does so of their own choice and thereby changes the intent and context of the writer. It will constitute a inaccurate representation of the writer and you will be referred back to rule 1. To Recap "I" means "I” Any Questions? 3. Not everyone on this site is a Christian.....News Flash..... I knew that, not a problem for me. But..... I am and just as they will post from their set of values and or beliefs so will I. My point of view will at least attempt to be Biblical based . MY opinions will no doubt be reflective of scripture at least I hope so. 4. I reserve the right to update and add to the following rules as pertaining to all my postings.

As a card carrying witch/wiccan, IMHO, Harry Potter isn't the real magical thing and J. K. Rawling has crafted some fine characters that have heart, a sense of adventure, and loyalty. The devil doesn't make us screw up, fear or rationalation in the moment makes us do things that cause harm. Us being defined as human beings. Wiccans make major contributions to humanity and are very concerned about taking care of the ONE GOD's creations (earth). Come what may, I've said my belief on this subject. Demonstrate Love with every action, everyday. Thanks for your post! And I wont flame you for your beliefs either nor question your right to post because I may disagree. In fact I do agree somewhat with you. You are right it is not the real thing but it can and does often lead people to seek to find the real thing. Which if that is what you are wanting is all good. "I" however am not promoting that road.

Lots of things teach people how to read should we give playboys to kids because it teaches them how to read. Does that make it ok ?

Sorry the Bible does not support forced anything only free will decisions. Anything misquoted is not truth. The fact that people may misrepresent something does not alter the truth of the origional. As I said before My math teacher may have not been a moral person but the math he taught was still none the less true. There are no scriptures for forced rape in the Bible maybe in someones idea of the scriptures but not in the Bible. A big difference. You said Quote:The most destructive doctrine ever foisted off on people came from the scriptures dove.... Forced sex, forced abortion, forced divorces, forced abandonment of ones children...justification of adultery, justification of the destroying of ones brother, justification of covering felonies..... Sorry it did not come from scripture give me a chapter and verse that supports any of those ideas from the Bible.

Rascal can't let this one slide The most destructive doctrine ever foisted off on people came from the scriptures dove.... Forced sex, forced abortion, forced divorces, forced abandonment of ones children...justification of adultery, justification of the destroying of ones brother, justification of covering felonies..... Wrong!!!! None of that is in the scriptures nor is it promoted by them. It did not come from scripture at least not my Bible.....

Nope Steve you were very gracious in your restraint of the derail. I chose to move the subject actually last night.

Belle and Rascal I have not forgotten you but I must take leave for a bit. That work thing. It takes a while to get to everyones posts in this gang bang. Patience please. But quickly Once again you fail to read. Belle You also called us participants in the "dumbing down of America" and likened us to promoting stories men and women who molest children. Quote: This dumbing down of society to relax and accept more and more spiritual trash is growing worse day by day. Did I miss someones name somewhere? I think not. Simply a statement that I believe to be true. You may believe otherwise. By the way the dumbing has no relation to IQ I was speaking spiritually and the dumbing well we know the source from scripture. Quote: I also would not promote or approve of books that tell stories promoting men or women that molest children as ok for the same reason, there is no moral value in either. "I" speaks for me what part of I don't you get for the record again I does not mean anyone other than me Whitedove....

Thanks Rascal But it's Steves thread and he would prefer to read his books in peace without any comments except pro Harry Potter ones. I'll defer to that request there. Now here you all can say what you want. And I'm sure you will. :D--> -->

Raf if ya look back I believe I said Quote; I can't or won't speak for others as to what they allow in their lives only for myself. For me myself and I I am not drawn to waste the time reading and thinking on such stuff that is of no profit,it is opposition to biblical values I think the me myself and I set the context of my remarks. I think the Bible speaks for itself regarding the subjects of Harry Potter books and where they come from. I don't reject scripture... and I won't Rah Rah things that clearly are not from the God of the Bible.

Absolutely and I have the right to express my opinion and concerns also just like you do when you write about how wonderful they are. It's a public board and opinions and comments are permitted. I don't remember offering any criticism of you, my opinion was directed at the book.

Dovey, are you implying here that anyone who does like Harry Potter is allowing the "spiritual kingdom" to hold fascination over their lives (as opposed to, say, just enjoying a well-written book)? I'd have to say no again! It's not that simple as reading a book its a longer process. I can't or won't speak for others as to what they allow in their lives only for myself. For me myself and I I am not drawn to waste the time reading and thinking on such stuff that is of no profit,it is opposition to biblical values. I also would not promote or approve of books that tell stories promoting men or women that molest children as ok for the same reason, there is no moral value in either. Who sets the standard for what and how much evil we allow children to be a part of. This dumbing down of society to relax and accept more and more spiritual trash is growing worse day by day. What ever became of watch?, be vigilant? If I were the adversary I think I would try to get this clever idea into peoples thoughts too. Then the ones called by God to be more than conquerors will simply roll over and go to sleep . If we relax then who prey tell takes charge? Maybe the time is now again to say once again On Guard!! Can you imagine if the scripture reflected this view. Relax take it easy! Your adversary the Devil isn't going to bother you... Or this one: Finally my brother relax take it easy! there are no wiles of the Devil, For we wrestle not, even against flesh and blood, so relax!Take it easy! Relax! take it easy a wizard here a spell there. RELAX?.. Take it Easy? ... No Thanks!

Belle: Well, Dovey, you're in good company. You and the pope can sit around with all the TWIts and discuss how we're all stoopid for enjoying these fantasy stories. First just for the record Dovey is my sisterdove not to be confused with me.(I know it is hard to keep us doves straight at times) But don't want her to take the heat for anything I say.... Now that thats clear.... Don't believe I said anyone was stupid in case you missed it the first time I think I said- "Sorry I just don't see the attraction" Belle: It's okay if you don't like Harry, but I wonder what the purpose was for your comments. I mean, if you don't like Harry then why even bother? Because it is a public board for opinions about topics and I have one to post. Just like you do. Using the same logic if you don't like the Way why do you bother posting? Excuse me since when do we have to like something to post about it I thought that was the purpose of these threads silly me. Belle: Do you want us to try to convince you to like him or did you just want to throw a wet blanket on our enthusiasm or were you looking to start a fight? A. No I will never see the attraction in Harry Potter. As I said "I I I I I "ceased to be fascinated with this stuff long ago. B. No Again! If you are enthused about wizards,spells,brooms and the like, have at it your right! I was offering another point of view which is- I think it is counter productive for Christians since it does not agree with biblical teaching. Supporting it tends to give the impression that it is ok to head down that path so to speak. That is not the message of the Bible and not the message I want to support as a Christian. My choice. C. Nope I think it was you who came out swinging Raf was correct I do not like the stuff. Thats putting it a nice way.

Raf: I wasn't aware one hope precluded another Hope. You are correct they don't. Two different waits I'll be doing this they will do that, however it is possible some will be doing both just not me.

Moved posts: Rascal: Different strokes dove, different strokes my friend..... Absolutely my friend which is why I said I don't see the attraction if you do have at it. Rascal: Jesus Christ will no doubt come back whether I read Harry Potter or not, and whether I enjoy a good story or not will in all probability not determine the time of his arrival or my reception one way or another.... Correct,and that is MYHope if others have a different hope so be it. I think I said that. While some hope for the book release I,ME,MY, hope is different that's all. Rascal: and lastly, yes, I was one of those fools who drove 80 miles one way from our north woods camp site to be at the nearest boWell it looks like I've got mail.. Rascal: Different strokes dove, different strokes my friend..... Absolutely my friend that's why I ok store in Marquette with the kiddoes and my nieces and sister in law at midnight to receive our copy....we read aloud by flashlight the almost two hour trip back and had an over all FINE evening :-) Just for the record I don't think I stated you were a fool, and I am glad you had a good time. Rascal: The kiddoes have read all 6 books and have in the last 4 years neither attempted to borrow my broom to fly, to cast any spells or brew any potions.... They know that it is pure fun ... to be taken no more seriously than star wars or lord of the rings, batman or super man :-) Well here we differ for you it has worked well but not for everyone. As a Christian I will not endorse spells, wizards and so forth to target children who are at a impressionable age. Many children are not as well grounded as yours. Take for instance the kid who is in prison for body slamming his little sister to death because he watched too much wrestling. He thought she would get back up because thats what happens on TV. Do you know that they have Potter camps for kids to teach children crystal balls, spell-casting and tea-leaf reading? They are all on the timetable at Camp Beaumont’s Wizards & Witches school. Sorry But in the Bible God speaks clearly about these things and they are not, well lets just say something He endorses. So I have to ask myself why should I ?

Agreed what was a one time post seems to have drug on. I'll move my posts to a new thread and respond there.

Yes Rascal I spent some time looking through the first one at least until I could not stomach anymore. The spiritual kingdom does not hold any facination over me, I am well aware of their motives. So while wee ones anxiously wait for the wee hours when a fictional tale of a wee wizard will be released. I'll be waiting also, for the risen Son of God to return.