WhiteDove

Lol Sure Belle I'd be happy to. I'll think about the doghouse though. maybe if ya promise to leave the HP book in the doghouse :D-->

Cathy I was thinking today about Paul and his experience with men who taught scripture but exhibited works of the flesh. Philippians 1:15-18 15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: 16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: 17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. Despite the fact that they were manifesting works of the flesh envy, strife, contention and were not preaching sincerely his response was What then? whether in pretence, or in truth rejoice that Christ was preached. No mention of be angry about their works of the flesh ,or warn everyone about them just be happy for the truth that was preached. I suppose that was my point in a nutshell be happy that truth was preached despite moral failure because it does not negate the truth that was preached...

Me Belle.......

Ahhhh, and therein lies the problem. What part of what vee pee said is true and what part of what vee pee taught is not true? That's why people have re-examined the teachings of TWI and I venture to say that obviously we have come to many different conclusions on the matter. :)--> Determining these things requires a re-examination of what was taught. And, some would say that spiritual truths are way more important than math or English and that you can generally get a consensus from just about anywhere that 1+1=2, but that kind of consensus on the Bible just doesn't exist. Some of us believed whatever TWI taught without really questioning it or "searching whether those things were so". The realization that TWI was corrupt down to the very core prompted a re-evaluation of the things we merely took forgranted. We just come out with different views on "whether those things were so." ________________________________________________ Well Belle mark this day down in greasespot history WE agree..... I have no quarrel with reevaluating what we were taught you should every day. I am sorry that some despite warning chose to believe everything that came out of leaders mouths. But the truth is according to the Bible that is our job to do. If we did not (and at some point that pretty much included all of us) that responsibility rests squarely on our shoulders. That does not mean we are bad people or really anything except that we just did not do what we were supposed to do. Our fault. QuoteBelle: We just come out with different views on "whether those things were so." Exactly ...... and that is fine

------------------------------------------------ Ok Cathy But you are the one that inserted TWI before truth that is not what I said!!! I said truth. I also said what he said that was true is true what he said that was not was not. I never said all taught is truth you did. That is why I made a seperation some truth some not.... It is well documented that much of what was taught was truth that he learned from others about the Bible his actions do not negate the truth in that. Men like Stiles, Bullinger, Welch,Pillai,Lamsa,Thayer,Luther,Berry are recognized in the Christian scholar community. Christian book distributers one of the largest Christian book sellers in their academic catalog carry these works. I know we order them for our bookstore. You don't like VPW actions his moral character thats fine. As you say according to scripture it is lacking. By the way here is another to add to Galations ITimothy 3:1ff... Qualifications for a leader. But as I said it is two seperate issues not connected one Character two Truth. As in my example truth is truth despite any character flaws it has zero to do with it. Truth is not dependant on human things it stands on it own. Your anger is preventing you from seperating things like truth and True minister they are not the same. You interchange them as if they were. You add TWI truth into the mix..Not the same as truth. Look I'll try again this time we will use a favorite of yours Harry Potter. If one would open the book and read say page 20. That would be a truthful rendering of Harry Potter. Anyone could do that as long as the reading was a truthful reading of page 20. A rapist if reading the page 20 still would be truthfuly representing Harry Potter although his moral character is lacking. He could even read it while committing rape and it still would be a truthful representation of Harry Potter. Moral character does not change the truth. It is a seperate issue..... VPW shared lots of truth recognized at least in the Christian Academic World some not. but his actions do not negate what was true. Just like the rapists do not negate what Harry Potter page 20 said.

Thats fine your opinion but that does not void things that are /were truth. as I said that which is true is true just as it is in Math English or any other field a teachers actions does not void the subject. It may make it hard to believe but it does not make it untruthful.

------------------------------------------------ Mistrusting his actions is one thing but that is not what you said: Quote:A man of the flesh, one that treated people so vilely cannot possibly be trusted to accuratly portray spiritual truths and issues.Quote _______________________________________________ That does not mean that he can not be trusted to speak spiritual truths or any other truths for that matter. My point exactly mistrust his actions all you want but those things that he spoke about the Bible (however little or much you still hold to) that have proven to be true by Biblical texts and or Scholars. Are true!Even if he hung little kids from the Way sign. His actions does not make truth non truth.

I would agree with you 100%. But to say or imply that we should toss out scriptures because of a moral flaw is not logical. To say that none can be trusted for instance what VPW said regarding Ephesians 3:9 could not possibly be true because he did so and so is not logical either. As you said there is a thoughtful process for determining truth or not truth. This is emotionalism not logical determination .

Rascal I don't have a disagreement of your assessment of VPW character. Or as you say the side of the fence he is on. But which ever side he lands on does nothing to affect any information that was spoken that was a true fact. Another words 1+1 =2 if Mother Teresa said it or Charles Manson said it no difference it still is true Those things that vpw said that were true are true. The things that he said that were not are not. Nothing to do with his character assessment..

Ok and then:Quote A man of the flesh, one that treated people so vilely cannot possibly be trusted to accuratly portray spiritual truths and issues Not true a teachers actions may have nothing to do with the subject they are teaching as I said. I know An English teacher that had sex with her students most of the English she taught was fine. Her abuse was not. Her actions though immoral maybe, did not negate her English. I know a Bible teacher who taught Bible He also was abusive but his actions do not negate his teachings either. Each stands or falls on their merit. Because he was or because some perceive him to be a man of the flesh or how he treated people does negate the teachings. Those are character issues not truth defining issues. As I said it is two separate issues and not logical reasoning for evaluating truth or not truth. By the way I don't have any doubt that your reasons for your beliefs were not thought through. It is obvious from your posts that you think through your actions. I just don't think that it is all that common of an occurrence. I don't like the way he acted is not a valid reason for determination for truthfulness of information.

Hey Oak your signature did you get the idea from this Dylan song? Just curious. One More Cup of Coffee(The Valley Below) Your breath is sweet Your eyes are like two jewels in the sky. Your back is straight, your hair is smooth On the pillow where you lie. But I don't sense affection No gratitude or love Your loyalty is not to me But to the stars above. One more cup of coffee for the road, One more cup of coffee 'fore I go To the valley below. Your daddy he's an outlaw And a wanderer by trade He'll teach you how to pick and choose And how to throw the blade. He oversees his kingdom So no stranger does intrude His voice it trembles as he calls out For another plate of food. One more cup of coffee for the road, One more cup of coffee 'fore I go To the valley below. Your sister sees the future Like your mama and yourself. You've never learned to read or write There's no books upon your shelf. And your pleasure knows no limits Your voice is like a meadowlark But your heart is like an ocean Mysterious and dark. One more cup of coffee for the road, One more cup of coffee 'fore I go To the valley below. Copyright © 1975 Ram's Horn Music

1. Jesse Jackson, Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggert have written an impressive new book. It's called: "Ministers Do More Than Lay People." 2. Transvestite: A guy who likes to eat, drink and be Mary. 3. The difference between the Pope and your boss....the Pope only expects you to kiss his ring. 4. The only time the world beats a path to your door is if you're in the bathroom. 5. It used to be only death and taxes were inevitable. Now, of course, there's shipping and handling, too. 6. A husband is someone who, after taking the trash out, gives the impression that he just cleaned the whole house. 7. My dream house will have no kitchen - just vending machines and a large trash can. 8. A blonde said, "I was worried that my mechanic might try to rip me off. I was relieved when he told me all I needed was turn signal fluid." 9. I'm so depressed. My doctor refused to write me a prescription for Viagra. He said it would be like putting a new flagpole on a condemned building. 10. My neighbor was bitten by a stray rabid dog. I went to see how he was and found him writing frantically on a piece of paper. I told him rabies could be cured and he didn't have to worry about a Will. He said, "Will? What Will? I'm making a list of the people I want to bite!" 11. Definition of a teenager? God's punishment for enjoying sex. 12. I signed up for an exercise class and was told to wear loose-fitting clothing. If I HAD any loose-fitting clothing, I wouldn't have signed up in the first place! 13. Wouldn't it be nice if whenever we messed up our life we could simply press 'Ctrl Alt Delete' and start all over?

You aren't getting married at one of those cult halftime wedding things are you?

Happy Birthday Krysilis

Hey Chatty nice to see you post again -->

No but I was,well at least until I did not listen one too many times I guess. But Hey I could be again..... Really........

What?? My brain can't hear you..... :)--> My wife said I never listen to her. At least I think that's what she said.

From their website: http://www.godhatesamerica.com/ I was looking at the audio of the space shuttle he truly is a crazy man. It will be interesting to see his take if this one lands safely...

Oh now I get it they were trying to tell them they are number 1..

It's like a timex watch - It takes a licking but still keeps on ticking..... Eventually the lithium battery will die.

Hey Cool You know I was just messin with you!!! I just passed your pals on Gage at the church on 17th. They apparently dont like bricks either as there is no one else around the building they are picketing. I bet we could write a book with crazy Phelps stories. Yes Mark was in the Way here around 74 at the start of the western house. They did finally discontinue the special police protection for them so it is open season now. Of course they will have it all on tape for court. I don't know about them being highly regarded though at least judging from the hand gestures I just saw anyway. :)--> Then again maybe they were trying to get their attention to wave hi --> But I doubt it.

_______________________________________________ Oh Cool come on fess up we know you are a Phelps apologist. :D--> -->

:D-->

Just a little joke for James there Oak. Hey beat away on the horse or anything else you want to. Cool by me. I do see his point though there is I'm sure enough in the archives to keep one busy for a lifetime, well almost but I'm sure enough to get the point anyway. You could just bump them up each day and save a ton of posting time for more fun things. Just a thought....