WhiteDove

Ok Roy I can dig the dogs . But not these guys they are pests enough here.

Wayfer they are in the Sanford area. Dutiel, Harold E., 84, of Sanford now awaits the Lord's Return. Jerry was a God-fearing man and true American Patriot. He retired after 30 years of loyal service in the United States Government B including the Navy, Army and Civil Service. He served in WWII, the Korean War and throughout Asia in the 1960's. Jerry was a loving husband and father. For decades he and his wife actively supported family, the USA, their local church and numerous other Christian programs. He was loved and will be greatly missed by his wife, Joanne; his daughters, Diane Bull of Illinois and Sue Natwick of California; his 5 step-children, Deborah Zabel of Colorado, Judy Mitchell and Steve Michels of Florida, Christy Stockwell of Missouri, David Michels of Ohio; and his 17 grandchildren and 6 great grandchildren. Memorial Services will be held Saturday, November 19, 2:00 PM at Faithful Word Ministries, 320 E. Commercial St. Sanford, FL with Rev. Steven A. Michels officiating. A fellowship time and refreshments with family and friends follows. In lieu of flowers the family requests that donation be made to the Jerry Dutiel Memorial Fund c/o Faithful Word Ministries, 407-328-4300.

For those of you who know Steve and Sherry Dear friends, It is with deep sadness I send this note to inform you that Harold E. (Jerry) Dutiel, my step-dad, has fallen asleep and is now awaiting the Return of Jesus Christ. Jerry was a loving husband to my mother for over 33 years and very good to five stepchildren. Mom and Jerry have been great believers since the early 70's. They helped and supported many young people receive Christian training, including Sherry, Zachary and me. They lead and hosted home fellowships for many years and always have been faithful to honor the Lord with tithes and offerings. During the last decade they have been instrumental in our church, Faithful word Ministries. My dear mother is a widow indeed and I take that to heart. A rethinking of one's priorities for the near future is certainly in order. I am proud to say, Jerry has been a Pillar of our church for many years. He loved the Word and found great delight in the fellowship of believers. He so enjoyed fishing and a hearty round of golf. One of his passions was crossword puzzles. He said solving them kept his mind sharp. Jerry was a God-fearing man and a true patriot - one from the great generation. His last day, Tuesday, was the best he had in weeks - it was "pain-free." He sat comfortable in his easy chair filling out his final crossword and watching the news to catch up on the war in Iraq (he prayed and rooted for our troops every day). After a good home cooked meal he was ready to retire for the evening. After Mom tucked him in bed, but before going to sleep that night, he spoke simple, yet very special words to her, "I sure love you Jo." With that he went to sleep.... It's a comfort to my heart that at the last Sunday Service he attended the teaching topic was "God's Everlasting Love For us." Jerry was 84 years old and lived a fine life. Though my heart is sad because I miss him so, I also rejoice knowing he has the Promise of Eternal Life. Thanks be unto my dear Father and God for His precious gift of Eternal Life through Christ Jesus my Lord! I appreciate you taking the time to read my lengthy "note." Kindly excuse any imperfections on my part. Should she come to your remembrance, please pray for Joanne Dutiel. Always His - Steve

Mark thanks for taking all the time to post all of the info. I'll try to respond as soon as I can free up some time.

Mark we can agree to disagree that's fine If you are happy with your choice I have no concern in it. But.... and it's a big one you are promoting a view that is not factually true for discussion. You seem to misinterpret truth as rage sorry it's not the same. Perhaps you should put the beads down and back away and study the history of the church it is inconsistent with the view you presented. I have no porthole into the past only what is recorded in church history and the Bible. Can you show me any record in scripture where Jesus or his followers spoke of Rosaries and Scapulars and if they have such powers why then would Jesus not have mentioned them in his time here on earth and the record of scripture he left us? There is none! it is based on mary worship a claim that a dead person spoke to someone in 1251. It has nothing to do with Jesus or any thing he taught spoke or lived in biblical history. Too bad for all those who lived before 1251 they got no power I guess. _______________________________________________________________________________ The Power of the Scapular "Whosoever dies clothed in this Scapular shall not suffer eternal fire" - Mary's promise to St. Simon Stock - July 16, 1251 The Blessed Virgin Mary told Saint Dominic "One day, through the Rosary and Scapular I will save the world." The devils revealed to Francis of yepes, the brother of St. John of the Cross, that three things especially tormented them. The first is the Name of Jesus; the second, the Name of Mary, and the third, the Brown Scapular of our Lady of Mt. Carmel. "Take off that habit," they cried to him, "which snatches so many souls from us. All those clothed in it die piously and escape us." Your Scapular, then, should take on deep meaning for you. It is a rich present brought down from Heaven by Our Lady herself. "Wear it devoutly and perseveringly," she says to each soul, "it is my garment. To be clothed in it means you are continually thinking of me, and I in turn, am always thinking of you and helping you to secure eternal life." Without saying to Mary that we venerate Her, love Her and trust her, we tell Her these things every moment of the day, by simply wearing the scapular. "The Rosary and Scapular are inseparable" - Testimony by Lucia, to whom Our Lady appeared at Fatima with the rosary and scapular. A former prior general of the Carmelite Order, the Most Rev. Kilian Lynch, warned against abusing the scapular devotion. "Let us not conclude," he said, "that the scapular is endowed with some kind of supernatural power which will save us no matter what we do or how much we sin...Fidelity to the commandments is required by those seeking 'the special love and protection of our Lady.'" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gee mary spirit I thought we already had a Saviour ,oh thats in the Bible I forgot not the Papal decrees And aren't rosaries made up of repetitive prayers I think he did address that subject? Indulgences -(you could read Martin Luther's commentary on this) but again Can you show me any scripture where Jesus and company sold forgiveness for money? Popes- Now they are the Vicar of Christ according to the church here is some of what I learned in church history lets see if they acted like Christ. I don't have the time or desire to research all of the Pope's for you but you can Google it or read up on it yourself. Even allowing for some inaccuracies in the sites the facts are pretty obvious. Here is one I did find online though from Catholic Answers. http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9801fea4.asp http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/heresies_heretics/86201

Quote See, oldies, my heart truly goes out to a lot of ex-Catholics. The vast majority of those whom I've met become ex-Catholic not because of the teachings of the Church, but because they were inadequately taught by those who were supposed to teach them the Faith. There are exceptions to this generalization (OK, excathedra), but those are in the minority Mark I would disagree with you I have had 12 years of Catholic education, also all of my 3 aunts were Sisters of Charity I am full aware of the meanings behind their rituals. That is exactly why I have nothing to do with their church. Rosaries,indulgences and holy cards and scapulars and a line of crazy Popes who did things that are so atrocious that they should invent a new class of sin just for them. Not to mention that none of it has any Biblical basis. I don't remember Jesus or his followers wearing scapulars or counting beads and they acted a world of differant than the so called clergy of the church. No the lessons were quite clear power greed money all in the name of religion and God.

Dang Psalmie that sucks! Can't really add anything else to the advice here. Socks has the right idea though a bowl of gravy on the head might do wonders. If you want I could fly down and help you mess up their cars piggie. Take care of yourself

Linda And I wonder when it's dirty do I take it to the laundry or the Groomer?

Ala I saw Jane Bunnett from up your way at the Jazzfest here in June with Elio Villafranca they were a great duo. http://www.janebunnett.com/profile.htm http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=437

Can you weave pigskins or do you have to just make footballs and pork rinds out of them?

Collins says Genesis reunion 'a possibility,' JERUSALEM (AP) - Phil Collins says he's open to the idea of a Genesis reunion. Nothing has been announced, but the 54-year-old British singer, who is touring the Middle East, says: "There's a possibility. I'm open for it." "If it doesn't happen, it won't be because we don't want to. It will just be because there are too many things in the way," he said Sunday. "I'm happy to sit behind the drum kit and let Peter (Gabriel) be the singer, but if it happens, I'll be there." Genesis formed in 1967, performing for more than 30 years before disbanding in 1998. Collins fronted the band after lead singer Gabriel left in 1975 to pursue a solo career. Collins went solo in 1996. "We're all still good friends. We spent like 30 or 25 years of our life in the same office," Collins said. "Just because we don't play in the same band anymore doesn't mean we don't see each other and enjoy each other's company." Collins, incidentally, is in the midst of a farewell tour and has insisted he wants to spend more time at home with his wife and infant son.

Lightfoot song keeps crew memory alive By MIKE HOUSEHOLDER -- Associated Press DETROIT - It's an evocative song that defies description: Haunting yet comforting, wistful yet powerful, mythic yet real. The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald was among Gordon Lightfoot's greatest hits, an unlikely Top 40 smash about the deaths of 29 men aboard an ore carrier that plunged to the floor of Lake Superior during a nasty storm on Nov. 10, 1975. "In large measure, his song is the reason we remember the Edmund Fitzgerald," said maritime historian Frederick Stonehouse. "That single ballad has made such a powerful contribution to the legend of the Great Lakes." Three decades after the tragedy, the Fitzgerald remains the most famous of the 6,000 ships that disappeared on the Great Lakes. Lightfoot's initial knowledge of the sinking came from an article in Newsweek. The singer/songwriter, after reading the piece, was inspired to write one of the signature songs of his lengthy career. Clocking in at 6 1/2 minutes, The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald appeared on the 1976 album Summertime Dream and eventually reached No. 2 on the pop charts. It spent 21 straight weeks on the charts, and still lingers like the memory of the doomed craft. The song remains a part of Lightfoot's set list; he played it last summer at Detroit's Fox Theater, where the crowd included Ruth Hudson, the mother of a deckhand from the Fitzgerald. Hudson, who met backstage with Lightfoot, has become friendly with the singer over the years. The North Ridgefield, Ohio, resident said the song is therapeutic to the families of the crew. "It's kept the men and the memorial to the men alive," said Hudson. "I think it's been good for the families. They have felt comfort in it. I have talked to just about all of them, and I haven't talked to anyone who didn't like the song." Lightfoot declined to be interviewed for this story. But he told The Associated Press in 2000 that Wreck was "a song you can't walk away from." "You can't walk away from the people (victims), either," he said. "The song has a sound and total feel all of its own." The structure of the song is simple: 14 verses, each four lines long. Its 450-plus words are carefully chosen, delivered over a haunting melody. The song tells the story of the Fitzgerald's fatal voyage, which began Nov. 9 in Superior, Wis., where it was loaded with 26,116 tonnes of iron ore for a trip to Detroit. A day later it was being pounded by 145 kilometre-per-hour wind gusts and nine-metre waves. Ernest McSorley, the ship's captain, radioed a trailing freighter, the Arthur M. Anderson, and said that the Fitzgerald had sustained topside damage and was listing. At 7:10 p.m., he announced, "We are holding our own." But the ship soon disappeared from radar without issuing an SOS. After a few days, a vessel with sonar was able to locate the Fitzgerald only 24 kilometres from the safe haven of Whitefish Bay. Lightfoot's song does more than recite the facts. It transports the listener on board the Fitzgerald that fateful night: "The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait/When the gales of November came slashing/When afternoon came it was freezing rain/In the face of a hurricane west wind." And then the crescendo: "The captain wired in he had water coming in/And the good ship and crew was in peril/And later that night when his lights went out of sight/Came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald." Several memorial events are planned to coincide with the 30th anniversary of the sinking, including a ceremony at the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum at Whitefish Point and a service at the Mariners' Church of Detroit. Undoubtedly, The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald will be heard and discussed. "Any bit of literature, prose or poetry that magnifies the loss of loved ones is so dramatic," said Bishop Richard W. Ingalls of the Mariners' Church. "Gordon Lightfoot's song definitely has given it a life that seems not to end."

The Current Psychological Hoax- SNS- #942 12/03/78 is the tape numbr. jkboehme your MP3 is ready.

Vyctorya I think the web site was refering to the Credit Union not the Way International site. The Credit Union is a seperate entity and as such would have it's own site.

Rare photo of a Hershey slave.

One time when I got it I was in bed for a week had to use vacation time. The flu that is!

Welcome Sunny Don't listen to that ole piggie. Everyone knows that pigs don't fly. She is just a wannbe bird with a pair of battery powered wings.

ZING! SPLASH! Splooosshhhh! KA-POWEE! Sounds like the new dish washer just reported for work! About time Clean coffee cups for everyone......

Gee Psalmie I never tried tea before. When I get it honey always worked good for me but maybe I'll try the tea,less sticky. Next time I get it, the Flu that is.......

Wacky, I had a really long post almost finished to reply to you and I lost the whole thing! LOL And your thinking about spinning & weaving? :blink: :unsure: Hey Psalmie don't you have enough to do taking care of that herd of swine of yours. I'm not catching anymore of your piggies and returning them. And last time I flew by looked like someone had some Kudzu to attend to.........

I was going to reply to your post about how to stop your dog from being so demanding. But I can't right now as my dog has some errands for me to run........

Belle Belle Belle I have thought about your post for a few days now and I am at a loss as to why you seem to be angry when some historically true information is posted. Acknowledging something as true has nothing to do with agreeing or supporting the fact. It is just saying this is a true statement which is independent of anyone's actions. For instance O J Simpson is a sports icon the record books bear this out. He also, I believe is a killer. But that does not negate the fact that he still holds a place in sports history. It is just the truth. To admit that is not supporting him only the record of his accomplishments. Perhaps it is your young age or the fact that you are not far removed from what I think was one of the most abusive times in the Way I don't know. But you seem to have trouble separating these issues when it comes to the Way which I attribute this comment to. Quote] I don't know when you were in, WhiteDove, but it must have been during some glory days or at the same time and location as Oldiesman. Quote] I was not around during Craig's reign I had already left as it was apparent that a Crazy person was at the helm. But from a distance it was obvious that everyone the Corps included were as you said "turning your lives over - lock stock & barrel - to TWI and their whims". That said this has nothing to do with the fact that was in dispute that I posted on. Groucho's recollection was/is not consistent with the facts regarding the Way Corps commitment. The documents and posters testimony is evidence of that fact. It has nothing to do with supporting what went on ,supporting the Corps Program, or what leaders did in the 90's. Like O J it is just keeping the factual account straight. I already mentioned why this is important in a prior post but if you think that these posts don't become fodder for lunch time ranting and lessons in why people should stay away from this site you are mistaken. This site is a major pain in the a@* for the Way. Posting untrue things just makes it easy to make us all out as liars who are just angry. Once you have established that a person has been untruthful then it is easy to dismiss all of their words after all they lied here so they must be lying here too. Quote] WhiteDove, you can not compare TWI to a secular organization because secular businesses like Wal-Mart don't hold God's blessings over your head or threaten you with Satan's abuses. as well as many other things, but bottom line is - TWI is not a secular organization and does not play by those rules - well, they don't play by any rules, but that's a whole nother storyQuote] Belle my comparison was to an apprentice program which by definition is. ap·pren·tice n. One bound by legal agreement to work for another for a specific amount of time in return for instruction in a trade, art, or business. One who is learning a trade or occupation, especially as a member of a labor union. A beginner; a learner. Apprentices are not limited to secular occupations but even if that were true The Way has always had a business side to it of which the Way Corps were involved in. They collected money (lots of it) they ran a Bookstore, A Credit Union ,Purchased from major Corporations like IBM and Sony printed and published books, rented hotels for conferences, and so on..... The apprentice analogy is a fair comparison it is part of the program, you were being trained to be a leader in the Way ministry which included conducting business for them. The Corps teachings were available to get in University of Life and really in the College division they had access to them also but without the commitment to the rest of the Corps program. That is why there were different programs available The Corps program was to train leaders who would serve in The Way. Quote Actually, the HFC's we had here went into the WC program to be trained as TWIG LEADERS. That's it. Trained to be able to run a twig where-ever they chose to be - NOT where TWI told them to be. "Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern ,interest, and need. Where they serve depends on their desire, ability and the needs of the ministry." -The Way Corps Promotion Brochure Anyway I have not seen Oldiesman around anywhere so I suppose we are not at the same time and location after all.......

Exie I have not gotten it for years either! The Flu that is..... So this year may be my turn to get it :unsure: :o ;)

David Guess I am going to have to get up a little earlier to outwit you.. :unsure:

I don't know what else to tell you Groucho. I know of no document brochure or other piece of paper that supports your idea. I used the word intent because some of the language or wording had slight change over the years but the purpose was always the same to my knowledge. That said it was a fee country and no one could make you take an assignment really ,you always could walk away that was the only optional choice you had. However unless it was for a pretty good reason you would be dropped from active status. I think in the early Corps they needed all the leaders they could get so I'm sure the pressure to go at will was greater later on as the Corps grew it was easier to stay in one place generaly the assignments were 3-5 years. During Craigs time I was not around much but I would guess that being short of people again the pressure was on. Quote] Twi never intended to train people to go out into the world to be Christian ministers...Their intent was to control people and further their own narcisstic agenda. Exactly my point it was not a training center for other religions it was to train leaders for The Way who would then serve as such for a lifelong period .