Steve Lortz

Yorkies are an interesting kind of dog. They were originally bred to hunt rats, so they are aggressive and competitive dogs. But they were bred to hunt in packs, so they are also VERY social dogs among themselves. My sister got a Yorkie pup about a-year-and-a-half ago. Named him "Benji." It's not good to keep a solitary Yorkie. They can develop behavioral problems as a result. So about six months ago, she got another Yorkie pup and named him "Dunkie" (short for "Dunkin Donuts"). She didn't get the two pups at the same time, for another good reason. If you get the pups together, they form such a bond with each other that they fail to bond properly with the human members of their pack. So Benji bonded with my sister and her husband (who is the alpha male of the pack), and now Dunkie is bonding with all of them. Dunkie spends his time pushing the boundaries to see what he can get away with. One time early on, when Dunkie went farther than Benjie wanted him to go, Benjie rolled Dunkin over on his back, and Benji put his teeth on Dunkie's neck. Dunkin got the message. Benji can kill him anytime he wants to. Now Benji and Dunkie have the most marvelous time playing together. Dunkie RESPECTS Benji's boundaries, because he has the FEAR of the Benji. And everything is hunky-dory. My wife has an adult nephew who faces some challenges. When I married into the family I was given to understand that it would be MY responsibility to keep my new nephew out of his grandfather's hair. My nephew has aspergers, and ALWAYS pushes the boundaries to see how much he can get away with. His grandfather (my father-in-law) also had aspergers, and was never able to define a boundary or hold it. My nephew and his wife were living out of town at the time, but they came for a few days for my mother-in-law's funeral, and they stayed at our house. The very first day, after I had set out some guidelines for how we would do things in my house, my nephew began insisting that we would do things HIS way, or he would pitch a fit. So I put my coat and hat on, got out my car keys, and told him to put his gear in the car, because I was going to take him back to his own house (several hour's drive away). He tried to face me down long enough to realize that I meant business, and then he changed his tune, and things were fine for the rest of the visit. In dog terms, I had rolled him over on his back and put my teeth on his neck. It threw the fear of the Lortz into him, because he knew that I mean what I say, and I say what I mean, and I will back up my words with my actions. That was 20 years ago. He still gets into senseless fights with everyone but me. We spend a lot of time joking around and making small talk, but he knows when I'm being serious, and when he needs to obey me. That has come in handy on a number of occassions that might otherwise have ended up in jail or the local psych ward (for a variety of different people, and a variety of different reasons). I don't hesitate to say that the relationship he has with me is the BEST relationship he's ever had with a male relative, including his own Dad. Better than the relationship he's had with anybody except his wife. I don't think he'd hesitate to say the same thing. The reason our relationship is so good is because he RESPECTS the boundaries I set, because he FEARS me. And he knows I love him with the love of God. ================================= Soooo... how do we define "fear"? My brother and I both taught humane letters to seventh-graders, and one of the things we taught them was how to define words. The formula, going all the way back to Aristotle is this: first tell the category that the subject belongs to, and then tell how the subject is different from all other members of the same category. You gave this, WordWolf, as a modern usage definition: "'fear' is an emotion which is a negative response..." It would appear that this definition could be sharpened up. Is the category to which "fear" belongs the category of "emotions" or the category of "responses"? Does the adjective "negative" sufficiently delimit? Are there responses or emotions other than fear which can be regarded as negative? If so, what distinguishes "fear" from those other responses or emotions. This definition seems to have a Pavlovian, soft-science feel to it, rather than a classically comprehensive feel. Are all emotions responses to stimuli? Are there any self-generating emotions? Could Pavlov have accounted for my wife's emotions? I very much doubt it. So, what is the category to which "fear" belongs? The category of "emotions" (or "feelings"). Emotions are chemical signals from the hormonal system, which operate in tandem with the electrical signals of the nervous system. Emotions MOVE us to DO things. Emotions differ from each other in the things they move us to do. "Fear" differs from other emotions in that it moves us to get into a safe, or a right relation with the object of the fear. "Fear" is almost always provoked by crossing the boundary that separates what is perceived as "safe" from what is perceived as "dangerous". Perhaps the Pavlovian definition of "fear" uses the word "negative" because fear can be painful, and Pavlov used pain to induce the feeling in his experimental animals. Most of the time I enjoy eating my pistachios without giving a second thought to the condition of my teeth. But sometimes one of my teeth will be painful, which is my body's way of saying, "Hey! Jerk! We need some attention here, and we need it NOW?" Fear becomes painful when we cross the boundary from a location of perceived safety to a location of perceived danger... when we see that rattlesnake within striking distance of our ankle... when we realize that our financial officer was cheating on the taxes... when we look over that precipice... The pain WON'T go away until we MOVE back into safety... back away from the snake... file corrections on our tax forms... back away from the edge of the abyss... =================================== The fear of the LORD moves us to get back into right, or safe relation with the LORD. The fear of the LORD gets painful when we cross the boundary HE has set in His Word between that behavior which He deems as safe, and that behavior which He deems as dangerous. The fear of the LORD recognizes that HE is our Creator, and WE exist only at His good pleasure. He doesn't owe us anything, not even life. The way to stop the pain of the fear of the LORD is to get back into safe territory, to repent of our transgressions, and to stop doing them. Wierwille didn't like the pain of the fear of the LORD, and he didn't want to repent (arrogance), so he did his best to drown out the pain with Drambuie, and with the endorphins released through sex (he bacame a sex addict). ================================== There are a few more things I could write, but I think I'm done for the time being. Love, Steve

Wierwille taught us by word and by deed that we were to "respect" God and fear Wierwille. Soooo... as Dr. Phil would say, "How's that working out for everybody?" Love, Steve

Those are EXACTLY the symptoms of "respecting" God rather than fearing Him. Psalm 36:1-2 (NIV) "1 An oracle is within my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked: There is no fear of God before his eyes. "2 For in his own eyes he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his sin." Why is it such a horrible thing to fear God? Because fear is believing in reverse? Because fear is sand in the machinery of life? Because fear always encases, always enslaves, always binds? Who taught us those things? Yes, WordWolf, fear IS a strong emotion, but it isn't just any old emotion. It is the emotion that moves us to get into right relation with the object of our fear. It is a Godly emotion the Creator designed into us for our own safety. Cowering is a foolish response to the fear of God. The proper response is to get your butt into gear and obey God. That's what Wierwille NEVER did, in spite of all the "respect" VP had for God. If you are humbly obedient to God, then there are no consequences from God that you need to look forward to with dread. Love, Steve

What sad, sad ends! I remember the early days of CES, when John, John and Mark were so eager to reveal the Word of God "as it had not been known since the first century" to the religious world in general. Those Christian simpletons would just have to stand in AWE of the LOGIC of Introduction to God's HeartTM (since Power for Abundant LivingTM was already taken). They never gave any indication to their followers, but how disappointed J, J & M must have been when they came in contact with genuine biblical scholars, and those scholars asked, "Why are you trying to peddle dispensationalism, a discredited Victorian fad acceptable only among Fundamentalists?" The only people who responded to their "outreach" were Dan Toccini of Momentus, the Personal Prophecy people, and a number of quack info-mercial producers who took the money and ran. Well... youtube has brought their production costs down... at least for Lynn with his pasted on smile and odd hand gestures (is he signing in tongues?). Sobering... Love, Steve

...than splinters of splinters left of CES/STFI/LTF? Anybody know? Anybody still receiving mailings? Love, Steve

I think some of the confusion about what "the fear of the Lord" is comes from an inadequate understanding of what "fear" itself is. Fear is an emotion, a signal from the hormonal system. The hormones constitute a chemical communication system God designed into us to act in concert with the electrical signals of the nervous system. Emotions move us to do things. That's why they are called eMOTIONs. Different emotions move us to do different things. Emotions prompted by adrenaline move us to prepare for flight or fight. Emotions caused by oxytocin move us to bond. Fear is an emotion that causes us to get into right relation with the object of our fear. The right relation with a rattlesnake is outside of striking distance. The right relation with the IRS is to have our filings accurate and on time, and our taxes paid up. Fear is inspired by recognizing that there is something outside ourselves that has more power than we have, and is free of our will, and could harm us if it wanted to. The right relation with the Lord is one of humble obedience on our part. The fear of the Lord is inspired by the magnificence of His creation, both on the macroscopic level of gazing at the stars on a clear night and the microscopic level of considering the intricacies of the chemical organization of cellular biology, and for those who are willing to consider it, the synchronicity of His grace and providence. Fear of the Lord results in obedience to Him. People try to inspire in us the fear of their own selves by whipping us. God doesn't do that. The perversion of Godly fear is where terror comes from. God is not going to thrash those who refure to be obedient to Him. He is finally going to allow them to take the consequences of violating the nature of the creation He designed. And when His mercy and grace are withdrawn, not being in right relation with Him, not obeying Him, will feel very much like wrath. The whole point of the fear of the Lord is willing obedience. The whole point of Wierwille was willingly doing whatever he damn-well-pleased. The Lord is not a senile uncle who we are no longer expected to obey. The Lord is the LORD, who we are expected to willingly obey. And in its true sense, the fear of the Lord is the antidote to the deceitfulness and foolishness of my own heart. Love, Steve

One word...ARROGANCE! Wierwille taught that "be not high-minded, but fear" was not addressed to him or the church. Wierwille was high-minded. How he mangled Romans 12:3, "For I say through the grace given unto me to every man that is among you, not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think soberly, as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith." What Wierwille taught was too confusing for me to reconstruct exactly, but if I remember right it was something about a figure of speech making it mean the exact opposite of what it says, because the measure of faith makes us better, and if we think less or our selves, then we are thinking more highly or our selves than God thinks about us, or some such garbage. Arrogance is the opposite of the fear of the Lord, which is simply humility before God. Wierwille's arrogance infected ALL of us who stuck around after PFAL. All of the off-shoot leaders suffer from the same arrogance. We ALL knew what the Word of God meant better than God Himself did... because Wierwille told us so. Love, Steve

HOLY SMOKE! I received a copy of Stiles' The Gift of the Holy Spirit in the mail today, and a glance at the table of contents showed me why Wierwille chose Stiles' material to work into the melange that was Power for Abundant Living. The title of Chapter IX is "Reasons Why the Holy Spirit Could Not Be Given on Basis of Our Personal Holiness and Consecration." Stiles was arguing, rightly in my opinion, against the Holiness Movement's doctrine of a second or even a third "work of grace." Wierwille took it to mean he could do what ever he damn-well-pleased, and if he sinned, it wouldn't effect his relation with God by way of the Holy Spirit! The deeper you get into this stuff, the more you see how Wierwille perverted the truth in PFAL. Love, Steve

Your posts may not be as far off topic as you imagine, geisha! I left TWI in 1987. My face-on-the-floor repentence moment didn't come until the early spring of 1996, and then it was because of promises I had made during the Momentus training, though the root cause of it all was right out of PFAL. And this thread is about Momentus as well as TWI. The Lord showed me that I was under the curse of Jeremiah 17:5, I had trusted in man, I had made flesh my arm, and my heart had departed from the Lord, even though my deceitful heart had told me I was still faithfully serving the Lord the whole time. I repented before the Lord, but He let me know He wanted me to repent in front of the same people who had been in the Momentus training with me, so they would know that they could do it too. I got up in front of a congregational meeting of the Living Word Fellowship, about 60 people including John Lynn. There were about 12 of us there who had realized the damage being inflicted on people by Momentus. People were hospitalized, marriages were breaking up right and left among the grads, and a few had even attempted suicide. We couldn't fathom how the people who were promoting Momentus, mainly John Lynn at that particular time and place, could be so oblivious to the harm they were doing. John Lynn did not yet know that I had turned against Momentus. When I got up to talk, he was expecting me to promote the training, so I had a few minutes to publicly repent of the promises I had made in Momentus, particularly signing the hold-harmless agreement, before John was on his feet withstanding me to my face. Before the fireworks commenced, every person there heard how to get out from under the curse, by repenting, if they wanted to. The real poison in PFAL was the idea that we do not have to FEAR the Lord. Our hearts are deceitful because we believe that everything that comes out of our hearts is right and clean. We can't sense if the thoughts and intents of our hearts are genuinely right or not. Our hearts can convince us that we are serving the Lord, when our hearts have actually departed from Him. That's why Hebrews 4:12 says that the Word of God is the critic of the thoughts and intents of our hearts. It's an objective standard by which we can judge what is coming out of our hearts. It is the FEAR of the Lord that drives us to abandon the things that our hearts say are SOOOO right when the Word says they are SOOOO wrong. Fear is the emotion that moves us to get into right relation with the object of the fear. Fear of the Lord is the emotion that moves us to get into right relation with the Lord! Wierwille himself evidenced no fear of the Lord, and he taught us that we need only respect God the way we would respect an elderly uncle we were no longer expected to obey. We certainly would not want to tell prospective recruits that they need to fear God. They might not sign the green card if we told them that. A lot of people feared God when they first took PFAL, but that fear was gradually extinguished with deeper involvement in TWI. What's so bad about not fearing God? Psalm 36:1-4 (NIV) "1 An oracle is in my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked. There is no fear of God before his eyes. "2 For in his own eyes he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his sin. "3 The words of his mouth are wicked and deceitful; he has ceased to be wise and to do good. "4 Even on his bed he plots evil; he commits himself to a sinful course and does not reject what is wrong." That's what happened to Wierwille. That's what happened to John Lynn, and all the rest of us to one degree or another. Those of us who had come to the Lord before coming to TWI were lulled into believing we were still serving the Lord, though we were actually serving Wierwille's evil lusts. And you are right, geisha, repentence is the only way to restore full sharing with the Lord. More about miracles later, but this is all for now! Love, Steve

I respect the validity of your experiences in TWI, geisha. Love, Steve

Thank you, skyrider. I needed to hear that, for a number of reasons not directly related to Greasespot Cafe. Life can suck, in so many ways, but God is still good! Thanks again. Love, Steve

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking, skyrider. I myself witnessed a miraculous healing when the woman who was undershepherding me prayed in the name of Jesus Christ with a teen-aged girl in the hospital. The girl never took the class; her mom never took the class, but the girl was healed in the name of Jesus Christ. The woman who was undershepherding me was not a hypocrite. She was morally upright, and just as horrified as anyone else when the truth about Wierwille began coming out in 1986-7. There were times when I prayed in the name of Jesus Christ and got results, years before I ever heard of TWI. There were times when I prayed in the name of Jesus Christ and got results, while I was involved with TWI. There are still times when I pray in the name of Jesus Christ and get results. None of those results were or are because of the magic formula Wierwille taught as "power of attorney." Those results were because the Lord is faithful to His Word, in spite of our ignorance and foolishness. There were many, many people at the twig level who took the things Wierwille taught about the love of God to heart, and tried to live those things, even though Wierwille himself was a shameless quack, secretly abusing those trusting people. Not everything that Wierwille taught was wrong, but it was all tainted by his hypocrisy, just as Jesus said was the case with the Pharisees and their teachings. TWI crushed the love of God out of peoples' hearts as they advanced through the Way Tree (this was back before Martindale began crushing the love of God out of peoples' hearts even before they began advancing). I remember the exact moment when I finally broke down and surrendered to the flesh, manipulating a couple into signing green cards while I was on Lightbearers. When we got back to campus, I realized what a fool I had been, and that was when I started the process of dis-associating myself from TWI. Nothing I was personally exposed to in TWI was worse than anything I had been exposed to in the Navy, except for Wierwille's hypocrisy... but then I was never one of the young women he drugged and raped in his motorcoach. I love God. I know He loved me during the time I was involved with TWI, even in spite of my involvement. I am still as foolish now, just in other ways. But I know God still loves me. ... and I now know that Wierwille was a hypocrite. Love, Steve

I think there was an additional reason why TWI was as successful (?) as it was, and why Wierwille's followers were so enthusiastic (before the organization managed to suck all the life out of them). Wierwille had to mix some truth in with what he was teaching in order to get people to swallow the poison. He deceitfully PREACHED some truth, even though what he PRACTICED and TAUGHT contradicted the truths he preached. The Bible says that as many as shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be delivered. The Lord was faithful to His promise, in spite of the fact that we were in a cult, and many people DID get deliverance. What was especially shameful was that Wierwille stole the credit for the deliverance that rightfully belonged to the Lord, and claimed the credit for himself and his class. Just my two cents' worth... Love, Steve

I'm currently finishing my first semester of work on a masters degree in theological studies. I'm turning over in my mind the possibility of writing a thesis on William J. Seymour, leader of the Azuza Street Revival of 1906-1909. One of the things I'd like to do is some research on J.E. Stiles to see if I can draw any lines connecting Stiles with Seymour, so I can trace the lineage of my own "tongue talking". If I DO decide to do the thesis, I may well want to pick your brain, too, John! Thanks! Love, Steve

double post... Sorry!

Are you meaning to imply that Wierwille had an alternate choice to drugging and raping young women? If so, then why should we blame the devil and not Wierwille? Love, Steve

I remember at some point, possibly during in residence corps training, hearing that Communism "had a life of its own" and was therefore driven by debbil spurts. That's why it had spread so fast, and was going to take over the whole world by the time of the gathering together. It was less than a year or so after I left TWI that Pope John Paul II brought down the Soviet Empire [actual history abbreviated for effect, but the result was the same]. Love, Steve

Sooooo...... When Wierwille taught us that "in this wonderful administration of the grace of God" sin is not wrong, only sin-consciouness, it was not wicked? When Wierwille lied to us about who Romans 9-11 is addressed to, in a section of PFAL about getting "to whom addressed" correct, it was not deceitful? All because Rosie O'Donnell called the Bible hate speech!?! And Wierwille was not a serial sexual predator? And he didn't devise an aberrant theology to support his aberrant lifestyle? John, you need to give a little more thought to the words coming out of your keyboard! Love, Steve

Did Wierwille think it was wrong for him to drug and rape young women? I think he knew that general society would consider it to be wrong, but I also think he believed in his own heart that it was only right, proper and innocent for a man of his great stature to have his "needs" met in this way. Why do I think this? Why does Jeremiah say the heart is deceitful above all things? Because the values of the heart are programmable. If you program your heart to feel it's okay to drug and rape young women, through habitual fantasizing about drugging and raping young women, then your heart is going to tell you that it's okay to drug and rape young women. That's what "where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" means. Your treasure is what you attach value to in your habitual thoughts. The values you attach to things in your habitual thoughts are going to be the values that you heart reflects back to you. The Word of God is the critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart. The Word of God tells us that drugging and raping young women is an evil intent. The emotion that prompts a person to do the Word of the Lord instead of the deceitful intents of his own heart is called "the fear of the Lord" or "the fear of God." Fear is the emotion that moves us to get into right relation with the object of the fear. With those things in mind, let's look at Psalm 36:1-4 (NIV): "An oracle is within my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked: There is no fear of God before his eyes. "For in his own eyes he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his sin. "The words of his mouth are wicked and deceitful; he has ceased to be wise and to do good. "Even on his bed he plots evil; he commits himself to a sinful course and does not reject what is wrong." Wierwille taught us that we shouldn't regard "fear of God" as fear, but rather as the respect we might pay an aging uncle who is too old for us to have to obey any longer. After all, we don't really have to obey God in "this wonderful administration of the grace of God", do we? When Wierwille fantasized about drugging and raping young women, he didn't accept the criticism of God's Word. He didn't consider drugging and raping young women to be an evil intent, and he came to trust the values that he had programmed into his own heart. Wierwille flattered Wierwille in his own eyes, too much to detect or hate his own sin... too much to DETECT his own sin!?! His words were wicked and deceitful... PFAL was wicked and deceitful... because Wierwille had programmed his heart to be wicked and deceitful, and out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Wierwille ceased to be wise, and ceased to do good, long before he ever filmed PFAL. Even in his motorcoach he plotted evil. Wierwille committed himself to a sinful course and did not reject what was wrong. Love, Steve

EXACTLY! In TWI we were expected to praise Wierwille and his damned class, NOT God or Jesus Christ! Thankfulness means "giving the credit where the credit is due." We have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not of us. In The Way International, the excellency of the power was of Wierwille's damned PFAL. Where does the slippery slope begin? When they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful [they didn't give the credit to God]; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible Wierwille and his class [we gave the credit to PFAL]. Wherefore God gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts...: who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served Wierwille more than the Creator who is blessed forever. Praise God and not Wiewille?... or praise Wierwille and not God!?! I'll praise God and not Wierwille any day of the week, John... ANY day of the week! Love, Steve

The total TWI degradation was much more than any one of us individually experienced, and that's saying something, given the experiences some people have gone on record relating here. I am ashamed I ever had anything to do the old goat or his cult of ignorance. Love, Steve

Many people benefited much more than they suffered during their experience with TWI. I know I did. But Wierwille WASN'T responsible for that. The credit for the good things that happened to people belonged to God through the Lord Jesus Christ. But, just as Wierwille plagiarized the scholarly work of others, he wrongly attributed the credit for all the benefits to himself and his damned class. Wierwille STOLE the credit... from GOD... from start to finish! Wierwille was MORE of a monster than any of us CAN make him out to be! He twisted God's Word so that he himself could drug and rape God's daughters. He violated God's Word in order to rationalize, rationalize, rationalize away his culpability for the evil he perpetrated. When Wierwille presents himself at the judgment seat, he's gonna have more than a little "'splainin'" to do. And rationalization won't do him one whit of good then. If his rationalizations make the evil he did "good enough for me," then I deserve his same reward. Love, Steve

John, you might want to reconsider the soundness of your thinking. You're using the rationalizations of Martindale, a serial sexual predator, trained by Wierwille, a serial sexual predator, to turn the blame back onto the victims. And they WERE victims. Illegally speeding on a country road to see how much power your car has? Wasn't that what Wierwille was doing? Breaking moral laws to see how much he could get away with, to reassure himself of how "powerful" his masculinity was? Your argument is not making Wierwille sound any better. You're highlighting how much worse he was, even worse than you think. Love, Steve

I think Wierwille knew his behavior, drugging and raping women who trusted him, was not acceptible in society, and so he kept it secret. If he didn't think it was fundamentally okay for him to do it, then why did he keep on doing it for as long as he was physically able? What does it say about Wierwille's attitude toward God that the quack was comfortably able to continue drugging and raping God's daughters? What colossal arrogance for Wierwille to believe in his heart that God would tolerate the desecration of His daughters for Wierwille's NEEDS!?! And Wierwille's colossal arrogance tainted EVERYTHING he taught in PFAL. It poisoned his definition of man, it poisoned his definition of salvation, it poisoned his doctrine of a believer's standing and state, it poisoned his definition of Jesus Christ and it poisoned his understanding of God Himself! I've been out of TWI for 24 years, but I have continued to study the Bible. I am STILL finding ways in which PFAL perverted my understanding of God and His Word. PFAL was an expression of the perverted arrogance in Wierwille's heart. Love, Steve P.S. - and he high-jacked my credibility to sell the damned class.

Given the biblical allusions, perhaps this is a more appropriate image for Wierwille? or maybe this one: Love, Steve