Steve Lortz

yep Love, Steve

I agree, chockfull, and the circumstances of my initial exposure were very similar to yours. But I've got one additional observation. The love at the twig level wasn't all cynical love bombing, though it was at the top. There were many lowly "leaves on a mighty (rotten) tree" who were sincerely trying to love God and love His people to the best of their ability. The Trustees and their minions were vampires sucking the lifeblood of genuine believers. Love, Steve

I think we'll all learn a lot of interesting things in the resurrection. The continuity of our current lives doesn't depend on all our cells living for our entire lifetimes. The continuity of our consciousness may have something to do with our nerve cells not reproducing. A lot of food for thought... Love, Steve

The denomination that founded the school where I am working on my masters originated as a protest against denominationalism in the 1880s. And yes, they are aware of the paradox that they have become a denomination. One of their original tenets has remained intact, and that is that man-made credos are divisive. Because of this, people are not expected to all believe the exact same thing. It seems to me that there are levels of approach that are age appropriate. Some of the congregations are pretty much "give me that old time religion" while others are open to looser approaches. The official church position is against speaking in tongues, but some congregations do it anyway. Music is more important than preaching. The church's doctrine is passed on through the songs, which are not childish. Some of my profs may feel a little restrained in how far they can officially push the envelop, but they teach some pretty daring doctrine with a wink-wink, nudge-nudge! Some of the pedagogy is cutting edge. It's a far, far way from the Way, thank God! Love, Steve

Very intriguing article, waysider! Love, Steve

...and the alligators were CHARGED... they sparkled and glowed! Love, Steve (Sometimes this is just too much fun!)

OOOooooOOOoooooooooOOooooooooooo.............. Sounds like Easy Rider! Love, Steve

Hmmmmmmmm... looks like we have a binitarian Wierwillology in the making! Love, Steve

You are so right, excie! Love, Steve

I concur. I'm only 63, and movies just don't thrill me the way they used to. I enjoyed "Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull" the same way I enjoy reunion shows of comfortable old TV series, but the charge was gone. I enjoyed "Prometheus" the same way I enjoy "Beowulf". The poem, NOT the movie. THAT was excrement! Gulliver traveled to the land of Luggnagg where he met the Struldbrugs, a people who never died. They didn't stay young though. They lost all their facilities at a normal rate, and after they turned eighty, they were leagally considered dead! Love, Steve

I don't know if the doctrine was explicitly stated anywhere, but it was certainly an obvious implication of what was taught in the foundational class, where Wierwille said if a person predicted the day that person would die, then Wierwille would put his money on that person dying that day. Again, I don't remember if it was explicitly taught somewhere, but when people would ask why the Apostle Paul died, the answer was "because he got tired of believing". That was also said about Wierwille when he was killed by cancer. A great quote I learned in biology class: A living cell is a temporary repository of order purchased at the cost of a constant flow of energy. That definition works at so many levels... Love, Steve

Thanks! I always wondered if they blew re-doing the class because they had so many more options, and so many questions had arisen from the 1967 class, that the '77 class lost what cohesion the '67 class had. Thanks again! Love, Steve (You know, I've taught professionally, and I could put together a vastly superior version of PFAL than anything TWI has done, but I've got better things than hawg-wash to teach!)

Love, Steve

That's why you became free, skyrider, because you accepted responsibility. And I think it was the Lord who took the scales from your eyes in His time. I believe that's what He did with me. Love, Steve

Skyrider, waysider, OldSkool, you are all RIGHT! In Philippians 3:19, Paul wrote about those who were enemies of the cross of Christ, whose example we should not follow, that their end is destruction (loss, waste, ruin), their God is their belly, they glory in their shame, and they mind earthly things. There is a figure of speech in that verse; the last thing is put first and the first thing put last; that is, the process begins by thinking about fleshly desires instead of spiritual objectives, by becoming proud of things they ought to be ashamed of, by serving their own appetites the way they should serve God, and as a result, all their efforts are worthless and come to nothing. This is a description of what happened with Wierwille and his organization. A true reason for guilt is staying in when you know better, not for leaving! Love, Steve

Sometimes I dream that I'm back at HQ, either standing on the stage debunking PFAL, or being chased by Martindale and security. I'm certain there are more people in attendance in my dreams than there are in reality. Maybe attendance will get so bad, they have to move Sunday morning service back into the BRC to get good crowd shots! Love, Steve

I enrolled at Ball State as a non-traditional student in the summer of 1979. That's where I was witnessed to, and "got into the Word", so I heard a lot of stories about the live class in '77. Were you there skyrider? What was it really like? Was Wierwille's performance bad enough that people were thinking he was past it? I heard it was videoed to replace the 1967 version of PFAL, but somehow or other, it just didn't work out. Got any insight you could share? Thanks! Love, Steve

The biblical antidote to hypocrisy (the deceitfulness of the heart) is the fear of God. That's why David wrote,"Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting." (Psalms 139:23&24 KJV) That's why Wierwille taught that Romans 11:20b, "be not highminded, but fear", was not addressed to him. Wierwille preferred to be highminded, rather than to accept the Lord's reproof and correction with humility. Wierwille taught US, and we taught others, to scoff at genuine humility. The humility required to achieve self-awareness is only as hard as giving up pride. During Momentus, Lynn developed and demonstrated PRIDE in his humility! To his twisted way of thinking, he's too humble to NEED reproof and correction. He BELIEVES his own hype... and it makes me sad to see him waste what talent he has, and confuse error with the love of God. Love, Steve

I remember hearing about the different kinds of "evil" back in the '80s. I don't remember where, or from whom. I have since studied actual Greek under an actual, bona fide doctor who specialized in studying Greek. There are several different words that translate into English as "evil", just as there are several different words that translate as "good". To the best of my understanding, kakos means "generic badness" and poneros means "blind" or "diseased" in a physical sense, and "wicked" in an ethical sense. Kalos means "good with regard to beauty or nobility" while agathos means "good with regard to usefulness". Kalos is set in contrast with kakos in Hebrews 5:14, but I think it is a contrast in poetic effect rather than a contrast in fine meaning. The only difference between good (kalos) and evil (kakos) are the letters "l" and "k", and those two letters occur side by side in the Greek alphabet! The Greek meanings aren't one-to-one correspondences with the English meanings. There are nuances that are invisible in the English, but the significances attached by Wierwille to the words were for the most part, cornfield hogwash or rip-offs from Bullinger. Love, Steve

Here's something I posted on another thread yesterday: Here is an excerpt from the Didache, a rule of faith that was very probably composed BEFORE some of the material that made it into the New Testament: "Chapter 11. Concerning Teachers, Apostles, and Prophets. Whosoever, therefore, comes and teaches you all these things that have been said before, receive him. But if the teacher himself turns and teaches another doctrine to the destruction of this, hear him not. But if he teaches so as to increase righteousness and the knowledge of the Lord, receive him as the Lord. But concerning the apostles and prophets, act according to the decree of the Gospel. Let every apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord. But he shall not remain more than one day; or two days, if there's a need. But if he remains three days, he is a false prophet. And when the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread [no money] until he lodges. If he asks for money, he is a false prophet. And every prophet who speaks in the Spirit you shall neither try nor judge; for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven. But not every one who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet; but only if he holds the ways of the Lord. Therefore from their ways shall the false prophet and the prophet be known. And every prophet who orders a meal in the Spirit does not eat it, unless he is indeed a false prophet.[ If a prophets says "The Lord tells me you guys need to provide food", and the guys eats the food he told you to provide, he is a false prophet] And every prophet who teaches the truth, but does not do what he teaches, is a false prophet. And every prophet, proved true, working unto the mystery of the Church in the world, yet not teaching others to do what he himself does, shall not be judged among you, for with God he has his judgment; for so did also the ancient prophets. But whoever says in the Spirit, Give me money, or something else, you shall not listen to him. But if he tells you to give for others' sake who are in need, let no one judge him." (Italics and bold emphases added by me. - Steve) Love, Steve

I heard "paramount" a number of times from the head table at Emporia. That's why I put the [sic] into the quote. It really seemed stupid to hear that coming from a Corps Coordinator. Thanks for watching out for me, Twinky! Love, Steve

The only problem with Lynn's use of the description of hypocritical counterfeit leaders is that it's a perfect description of the leaders of CES, especially during the Momentus kerfluffle and the implosion of STFI. Love, Steve

Here is an excerpt from the Didache, a rule of faith that was very probably composed BEFORE some of the material that made it into the New Testament: "Chapter 11. Concerning Teachers, Apostles, and Prophets. Whosoever, therefore, comes and teaches you all these things that have been said before, receive him. But if the teacher himself turns and teaches another doctrine to the destruction of this, hear him not. But if he teaches so as to increase righteousness and the knowledge of the Lord, receive him as the Lord. But concerning the apostles and prophets, act according to the decree of the Gospel. Let every apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord. But he shall not remain more than one day; or two days, if there's a need. But if he remains three days, he is a false prophet. And when the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread until he lodges. If he asks for money, he is a false prophet. And every prophet who speaks in the Spirit you shall neither try nor judge; for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven. But not every one who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet; but only if he holds the ways of the Lord. Therefore from their ways shall the false prophet and the prophet be known. And every prophet who orders a meal in the Spirit does not eat it, unless he is indeed a false prophet. And every prophet who teaches the truth, but does not do what he teaches, is a false prophet. And every prophet, proved true, working unto the mystery of the Church in the world, yet not teaching others to do what he himself does, shall not be judged among you, for with God he has his judgment; for so did also the ancient prophets. But whoever says in the Spirit, Give me money, or something else, you shall not listen to him. But if he tells you to give for others' sake who are in need, let no one judge him." Love, Steve

You hit the nail on the head, Socks! Love, Steve

I read through John's article about smelling the counterfeit. I spent four years on a submarine. When we were running submerged, we breathed recycled air. We got oxygen from distilling sea water and breaking the resulting fresh water into hydrogen and oxygen. We burnt molecular hydrogen and carbon monoxide to produce carbon dioxide and water, and we used a CO2 scrubber to take the carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere. We dissolved the CO2 in sea water and pumped it back overboard. We carbonated the ocean! We ran the air through activated charcoal filters in the fan room, but there's only so much you can do. The boat stank of rotting lube oil that had been aerosoled, diesel fuel (even though it was a nuke boat), old, rank cooking odors, and weeks worth of the B.O. and halitosis of 100 men. Most of the time, we didn't even notice the smell. Sometimes we had drills (or real casualties) when we had to put on EABs (emergency air breathers), which were like gas masks hooked up to scuba regulators that could be plugged into the compressed air system. The air in the system bottles was compressed surface air. It wasn't part of our normal atmosphere. Between the time we put an EAB on, and the time we took it off, we were breathing surface air. At the end of the drill or casualty, when we took our EABs off, we were overwhelmed momentarily by the most God-awful, gut-wrenching locker-room smell you can imagine. But after a couple of minutes, the smell had receded in our consciousness, and we no longer noticed it. So it is with John Lynn's experience of the counterfeit. He is so steeped in Wierwille's counterfeit dispensationalism, he thinks it's the Truth, and everybody except himself is out to lunch. When Lynn was involved with Momentus, he was verbally, mentally and emotionally, abusing the non-grads, and the grads who failed to toe the party line. When he was confronted about the counterfeit of Momentus, he withstood his confrontors to the face. I know. I was one of them. John really does believe his own blather. In some ways, that makes him more dangerous than an honest con-man. Fortunately, he isn't competent enough to be a politician. Love, Steve