lindyhopper

Fitting in is a very common social pressure. Cults take it to a more intense and damaging level. It is a hard thing to snap out of. Of course, there aren't too many things that you can fix in a snap anyways. The same way a parent that is never pleased with the efforts of thier child....it affects them for the rest of that child's life many times. Don't worry Ex. It anyone fits around here, it is you...can't ever acuse you of not being yourself. ;)-->

I saw the movie the other night and read the above article. It's hard to tell what comes across more in that article, Hitchen's counterpoints against the movie or his total hate for Moore. I think the later may have won out. Perhaps as a not so successful film maker he is a little jealous. I enjoyed the movie. Thought it was well done and something that needed to be done. As with most things I believe as a viewer one must get past the little jokes and propaganda-esk (like the kids playing in the streets of Bagdad) parts and see the more important messagees. Those were not made by clever editing or by twisting of words. They were made by seemless cuts of Bush and by people like the soldier that refuses to go back to the war, and the recruiters going to the mall on the bad side of town to get kids to sign the green card (I mean enlist). Seeing all the information at one time was also a little more damning than hearing or reading about some of the things over a number of years. I, as some may know, am not a huge follower of politics. Hense the lack of my presence in the plotical forums. So some of the stuff was news to me. I thought Bush's arrogance, stupidity, cluelessness, and hunger for power came thru in a profound way. You could also just see it in his eyes. I think some of the bigger points in the movie for me were all the convoluted connections that led to Bush, the attempts to hide it on the NG files released, the business man that said with a smile, "It's good for business, bad for the people, but great for business", among many other great quotes and points that were made.

WOW! Now quoting someone else as saying the Bible is bull**** is bigotry.

Ah little Chinson prodigy..... Spiderman, your perfect match.

John are you going to make me pull out my Bible and start questoning every usage of the word "lord" and try to determine which god it is talking about? Because I think we could all get very confused trying to figure out whether it is God being nice or the devil (the deceiver) pretending to be nice or if God actually does get ....ed and kill a few people or if its the devil or if it is the devil who is the nice guy.......Oh wait... Lets just assume God is always good and that the devil is always bad....and there you go, no problems. Right? No wait...

Refiner, can we confirm that mark as meaning he made him black? lol I see where this is going.

So it was the Assyrians that f*cked it up. They always f***** things up, at least that is what I tell my wife. Oh, she's half Assyrian. Our poor son has f*cked up blood. Thanks for informing me JohnUR.

So then what do you call prawns?

We = THE ones with THE truth. which is why it is clearly heresy.

Tres Bizarre. The majority of the readers of the Bible are reading with one or a number of spectacles of assumption. IMHO Thanks Raf, that would be great.

El StrangO, todays secret word is "God", You know what to do whenever you hear the secret word don't you? That's right, scream real loud!

Ozzie, Terribly sorry to here that. I hope my signature didn't offend you. The one before it said "Who's yer Daddy?". It was kind of an attmept to be funny and profound at the same time as I try and fail at quite often. Plus it seamed appropriate, after all I am the resident swinger. As you might assume on this board that many responded to it with...."God, is my daddy." So then I had to ask in a sililar fashion "OK then....Who's your mommy?", which I think may have sparked Roy's "holy breath the Mother" ideas. Kinda weird I know. Anyways, sorry. Those we loose live on in our hearts in a very special way. I too thank you for being here.

Whoa! You just made my skin cells crawl. ;)-->

TTT obviously helpd twi agree with the Myth of the Six Million because they saw it as they were not Jews. Plus they accused well to do Jews as selling other Jews out during the holocaust. I never really remember it being taught or voiced in a Sunday Service meeting, maybe in a Corps meeting, other than someone saying if there was six million they were not all Jews. That is a known fact but still that was a lot of killing regardless. TWI just used this stuff as a tool for thier hate and superiority complex. I don't think they ever addressed the correction, at least not while I was around.

It has been a while and the book was not a quick read, but i don't think Koestler was saying anything like that. He was a Jew. Supposedly, while reserching his liniage or something, came across information that said modern day Jews were not at all from the tribe of Juda or even one of the twelve tribes (hence the title of the book), but decendants from, as Danny noted earlier, a 10th century Russian tribe known as the Kazars. I aslo think he was supposedly in hiding for fear of his life after writing this book. Who know if any of it is true. TWI would take this info and say the only true Judeans still around are the ones the Bible refers to as deaspera(sp?) as in "scattered abroad". At the same time they would say, when Jews cried anti-semite, that they were the anti-semites for cusifying JC. How could they do that if they weren't really Jews? Just an example of the hate they spewed. I am interested in this identity movment, sounds very weird, but would also like to hear if anyone has info on the validity of Koestler's book.

yeah, and why did the price of the class change so much? $100, 200 (some point in the 80s), 50 at another time.

Wow! Quite a story. (experience) I'm glad you are doing better now. That is definitely the trend around here, you leave TWI and your life gets better. Go figure! Glad the G-spot could help.

Oz, So you have a hard time with many denominational churches, seem to still be looking for answers, don't believe in the trinity? Have I got a cult for you!

Perhaps this has been covered before, but not that I have seen... Anyone have some thoughts or opinions on the validity of this book that claims modern Jews are not related to the Judeans of the Bible. Not that it matters to me if they are not, but it is just something of interest to me and debunking lies that we've been tsught is always a good thing.

A little nature a little nurture and a lot of Pee Wee's play house.

Sure thing, see you over in doctrinal.

hey Danny, i have been interested in the validity of "the Thirteenth Tribe". Maybe I'll start a thread. Not that it will make me hate or love Jews any more or less, but just curious.

I'm so glad we could stick to the subject of this thread. Great job everyone.

Hi nameless, I ment not too serious about twi. While he may argue his ideas to the point of tears, it is his life, not just his religion you are discussing. But I don't even know this person only what he has been taught, so learn about him from him. ;)--> I was serious about a number of relationships that I had. I was also extremely hopeful, if I was in a serious relationship, that that person would get involved in the ministry. I knew that the relationship would only go so far and at some point the one I was dating came to the same conclusion. But that is the way dating goes. It runs its course until one of you moves on, can't go any further, or you both fall madly in love and get married eventually. This happens regardless of ones religion. I think the underlying (or overlying) theme here is. This guy is probably a great guy, have fun, but don't even consider getting involved in twi.

Hi there Nameless, Let me preface this by saying, I am 29, I left the Way (twi) about 3 1/2, 4 years ago, and grew up from the age of 5 in this ministry. As a teen I dated two non-wafer girls and dated some what seriously three different non- way women through my twenties. I am now married to the last one. I was considered "seriouly involved" with the ministry and "witnessed" to all of these girls, but never in a pushy way. Of those only one got involved and (before she was my wife) my wife went to one meeting. As a teen I was never pressured to get my girlfriends to go to a meeting. As an adult, I was pressured a little while dating my now wife. Other than that, I was not pressured. The one girl that did get involved only went because she admired and loved the person that I was and was interested, and only then did I "witness" to her. We she left without a word a year and a half later. Good for her. I have not experienced some of the things that others here have (but do not doubt them), but I did experience pleanty of terrible things.....mostly as an adult. Having said allll that. I think I might have a unique perspective on all this. I sounds like your boyfriend is still living with his parents, which I would assume means you are both teenagers. I so.....go nuts! Get freaky! I don't care, but be causious when it come to the religion thing. If you are an adult...make your own decisions, but again be wary of his Wafer affiliation. My younger brother is 21 and is right now dating someone in twi and it looks as though they are serious to the point of getting married. I would love to see him date someone outside of the ministry. I would say do everything you would dating a non wafer, just don't get involved with his ministry. If you have been dating for 2 months or so and he has not tried to get you to go to fellowship or a way function or continually talk about the Bible with you, it would be my guess that he is not that serious. Few of us here actually know other posts personally and none of us truly know the reasons for them joining a cult. I had no choice at five. If you are strong headed, then great....stay that way, and ask many questions and question many answers. It is good for you and will be great for him. But have a good time you are young, enjoy it. You are obviouly attracted to this person for probably both physical and personal qualities. Focus on those qualityies and don't push the way thing too much, unless he does. Now flame me, you flamers!