lindyhopper

LMAO, mark thank you.

I guess this could go to the open forum if someone thinks it should. I was thinking more about the stupid ministry when I started it.

Thanks Ex, I was going to see how the night went before calling the project off. The insane thing is that I feel little to no pain at all. The Doc thought it would hurt like hell last night and gave me the good stuff, percasset (sp?). I haven't needed one. That is crazy. I cant see how I didn't cut off bone. I would think I would be writhing in pain by now, but no. Nothing. Strange. I don't know what that means. I will probably try and work. Just some simple lite things right now and see how it goes. mwah

One other thing I wanted to point out is that science is not one scientist or a group of scientists. Just because someone or a number of scientists get hung up on something and fall prey to the human nature of assumption doesn't mean science is totally flawed or even the theory they were hung up on is flawed. In the instance that JB brought up about the study of the human gene gnome, the fact that one woman decided to look into these previously ignored layers is to the credit of science.

Sorry HCW, that makes absolutely no sense at all, Stallone accent or not. The thing about absolute truth is there is absolutely no way of prooving it. Actually there are very few things that can be. Which is why the most logical way to go, IMO, is agnosticism. We just don't know enough to know much of anything to absolute certainty. One thing many people get wrong about science is that it doesn't prove truth. It doesn't prove anything. It is a cycle of Observation- Hypotheses- Predictions- Experiments- Observation... The hypothesis should be tested repeatedly to see the outcomes are consistent. If they are not the hypothesis gets modified and so on. If it is consistent over time then it becomes a theory- not truth, but theory. If the theory is consistent long enough to be widely accepted, it becomes a law, not truth, but a law. Does not make it truth, but consistent and widely accepted. The problem with even calling creation a theory in the scientific sense or comparing it to scientific theories is that you can't even get to the testing, experimenting stage. We just jump straight to theory. Yes we have wide acceptance but we have no experimenting and no consistentcy. What we have is a hypothesis of creation. You don't ever hear that do you. Just calling it theory is giving it more credence than it deserves. Who's lieing now?

Nope, it was only taught that Johny the dunker was the only one born with spirit from birth. JC had to wait for him to sing "Let's a'go down to da reeva".

I did want to ask her if she could just miss class tonight and come over, but I didn't want to put her in that position. My wife is talking about postponing the first day of her new job, flying back here after just driving for three days, just to help me out. That is love. I won't let her do it, but if I said OK she would be here tomarrow. It wouldn't even be a question for us. Saying "you know what you need to do is..." everytime I have a concern or a problem is more anoying than anything. Telling people what to do all the time is not the only way to help them. Physically doing something for that person isn't always needed either. Sometimes just being there, hanging out with them does the trick.

YEAH! CONGRATS SHELL

Oh and he used to be a lieing PR punk.

He's just some stupid yes man that likes to flex the veins in his forehead. I think he was WC17 or something.

I know that now, apparently, many innies don't have much plurality. Many see saving every extra penny to buy a house or a new car is a need, so they can stay out of debt. Seems the debt teaching is coming around and biting them in the a$$.

The other crazy thing that is ticking me off is how my family can't address reality at least not if it looks like negative believing or a negative confession. Itis not like I am being dramatic or anything. All I have said is "Oh well, now I am going to have one f'ed up looking finger" and how I don't know how I'm going to finish this piece. All they can say is "don't say that, your finger will grow back perfectly" and "don't worry you'll get it done, just make a list and check it off as you get things done". First of all, they haven't even seen what it looks like. We only spoken on the phone. My bro saw it in the splint. They don't know how it looks. I don't need positive BS believing tactics to make me feel better. It is reality. I screwed up, my finger looks like hell, I will look like hell after it heals, oh well, my bad. Don't feed me horse **** tell me it tastes like apple pie. The doctors know it won't look normal, not exactly how bad, but not like a normal finger. Second, I am a woodworker, they are not. I know what i have to do, I know how long a piece this size will take, how long each step will take and I know I can't take short cuts or rush things. That was not the problem. Making a list will not make it come to pass. I know the list backwards and forward. I know that work 14 hour days for the next nine days might make it happen. Being unrealistic will not make it so. It is the old ignoring things = believing. So don't feed me some BS. Comfort me, make me dinner, come and see me, come clean the house and help pack while I rest or work, come and just hang out untill I feel a little better. Don't give me stale canned ministry answers to all of life's problems.

I'm alright. Just mad at myself more than anything. I have a lot to finish up beofre moving so this accident hasn't help my timeline. It is also much harder to do woodworking with your middle finger hurting in a splint. I don't know if I can finish this piece and that pi$$es me off. But hey now I can say **** you to eveyone. --> No offense. The whole ministry coming before your kid thing p!sses me off too. So **** that too.

And look I'm still smiling.

I did something incredibley stupid today. As a result I lost a chunk of finger. With wife and kid out of town, I was hoping my mom would drop her Way Class commitment this evening and come help out and maybe just be there for me. Well, I guess I didn't chop enough off. Maybe a hand would have been enough, or an arm maybe? Of course I didn't ask, but as I was sobbing on the phone, more upset with myself and overwhelmed with all I need to do than anything, I didn't think I needed to. My brother did show up with some mom food. That was nice. Maybe that sounds like I did it on purpose. Not at all, I'm upset not insane. Just a really stupid millisecond that I knew not to do. So sorry for any mistakes I am typing with one less finger.

One of the reasons some stayed...( a big one) -A feeling of importance... superiority- I think the class said it would give your life meaning, but when that meaning is a pompous self-righteousness, it is the wrong meaning. Thinking you know more than everyone else, is the wrong meaning. Thinking you're part of the elite remnant, God's chosen people, when you are not, is the wrong meaning. Thinking that your life's responsibility is to do what your "leaders" say, is the wrong meaning. Does it "profit" you in some way? --> Yes. Is that the best way to do it. No You see this sort of thing happen in many abusive situations. The abuser gives the abusee's life meaning, it is their life. Abused women sometimes live with their abusive husbands or boyfriends for many many years. They leave and come crawling back. Why? Brain damage? No. Learning that life has meaning outside of that horrible relationship is the begining for those that want to escape. What is the meaning of life? Why am I here? These are questions that can be answered in any number of a countless number of terrible ways. It can also be answered in good, positive ways. For the one questioning the line between the terrible and the good is not all that clear when they are desperate for answers.

Even The Dead Milkmen loved Graceland Ok continue.

Hey cool! Congrats to you both. All the best to ya.

I'm sorry did you say something?

Hey, I got the other puter working. I ain't so dumb after all!

We are moving and the puters go back to work. I don't think we will have a new one for a few weeks. So unless I can get our old one to start, I will be offline for a while. So later for now?

Yeah, what Oak said! While this would be a hard case to prove, I don't think it is insane, the Peelers just have some big ba!!s to be sueing. The majority of us here believed that we were brainwashed to some extent. If not brainwashed then pressured to a great degree. Oldies and those like you obviously disagree. I think over the years though, even you Oldies, has realised that what you experrienced and what others experienced are two totally different things. It also sounds like you left before the ABS, pluality giving teachings got very loud and spitful. Before I left, I stopped giving. On the day of my departure, when my FC's were "reproving" me, ABS was one of the things brought up. I came to realise that giving anything, at that time, was beyond my need. To say it was voluntary when they teach it as if it is one of the umbrellas protecting you from all evil and they keep track of what everyone gives and when you start lagging they confront you, is a joke. It would just be hard to prove the point in which you changed from freely giving to being pressured to give. That will be their problem, imo. Documenting reproof sessions will be hard. But insane? not at all.

That is exactly what I am talking about. If you are paying rent, you are still obligated to pay that whether it is a month, year, two year lease or what ever. The Way Disciples program, as far as I can remember, required people to get a month to month lease, I guess so they could move around if needed. Still, it is a debt, an obligation. If you rent for life, as they do in twi, you are in debt for life. Unless you are diligently trying to save to buy a house in cash, you are willingly staying in debt. How could anyone stay an Adv. Cl. Grad or corps person!? I think from all this we see what we already knew which was this debt teaching in the ministry was totally wacked. Napkinlady was one who saw this many years ago and decided to go to the Bible and really see what it says. That paper makes a hell of a lot of sense. Thank you Napkinlady! I think I may show it to my innie family. Here's one more nonsensical real life example from her paper... Another think she said was how she felt she couldn't ask certain people to fellowship, like her landlord. She knew that if he came that eventually they would tell him he had to change professions. lol Thanks again to all for adding to the ammo I needed. Now all I need to the courage to start that conversation with the family.

Thanks you guys. HCW, was that "Napkinlady's" paper you are talking/ posting there. I never really read it the previous times it was posted. I will this time. OMG! I may have to start researching the Bible again to help get my family out of the ministry! :D-->

Thanks, JT, your story is incouraging. I too talked myself out of it. I always thought I would go into the corps. That is until the D@rn*lls left. They always talked about how even thought they left a multi-million dollar business, going full time was the best decision they ever made. They talked about "putting your hand to the plow and not looking back" and all that. Then they left. Good for them. It made me think. What about me? Am I ready to make that vow? Everyone said being a leader was a calling. Was I being called? I realised I wasn't hearing anything. I realised that I was only thinking about going in the corps because that just seemed like the next step, because that is what was expected of me. The only thing I was hearing was everyone asking me "when are you going corps?", "when are you going in the corps like your brother?". And I wanted to go to school and finish my degree. I had plans on making it big in my profession. I wanted to enjoy life, lol. I didn't see that happening with anyone in the corps. And I seem to have this problem with authority, lol. One of my problems with hitting my family member hard with serious questions is that it could seriously affect his impending marriage. A marriage that would seem to be based on love. That would only be the second time that has happened in my family, the other being my marriage. The only hope I see is their dreams outside twi being dashed someday in the future as a wake-up call.