lindyhopper

YIKES! Its Rosaloy Martinbark! :blink: HEAD FOR THE HILLS!

Werwille and TWI taught that we are now to live by a higher standard than the law of the OT...the law of love. "We don't have to keep the ten commandments, but if we are living the law of love we will not break one of those commandments." Galatians 3 speaks to people who were going back to the OT law. It speaks to the point of the law and how we are now no longer under the schoolmaster. If we are living the law of love then we are held to a higher standard than the OT law but do not break that law either. Gal. 3 does not make the distinction between the OT law and the law of love but between the OT law and faith. What do you think? What is it talking about? Is the teaching of the law of love as tauht by twi askew a bit? Isn't it more about what you are focusing on and what you are using as a "rule book" for life (The Law or Faith or love)? TWI uses this idea to support their ideas of debt. Wha-choo-think? yes it really is me posting this. :blink:

I would like to go back to the light speed car question and challenge Brother Speed's theory. Granted I am not edumacated formally in this and your name does have "speed" in it this may be a foolish idea. I think what might happen is that you see nothing but light or a lot more light than you would normally, at least in front of you. What in space is dark? Dark matter maybe? You can measure the darkest of points in space and measure its light energy and get the same curve as you would measuring a light sourse. In the darkest of space there is still light coming from every direction. We don't see light in all of space because the speed of light isn't fast enough. There are light sourses we can't reach because they are beyond our viewing capability or because the light has not reached us yet. It is too far away for us to see. So unless we are traveling outside of our universe in an existence without light or inpenatrable to light (since we are in a "futruristic SPACE car" I would say we are not), I would think that we should still see light just perhaps different light (light that we couldn't see because of our distance and slow speed) or more light. Light does not travel in a sigular linear direction unless reflected and directed that way. So while the light may not reflect back to you, it will still be on. While you won't see the light that is coming from behind you I would think that you still see light that is coming towards you in the opposite direction perhaps to a greater degree. So perhaps you would be traveling into pure light with pure darkness behind you. Perhaps though you could see all the photons around you that are traveling at the same speed, billions of them. You would see the light reflecting from those particles because you are only moving in a singular direction in space. Secondly I would say to Mr. Ham, that taveling the speed of light does not make you light anymore than traveling at the speed of sound makes you sound. What happens when you break the sound barrier? BOOM! So what happens when you break the light barrier? No light or more light? Both? Perhaps you would need to turn on your "darks" to see where you are going.

Just saw you down at the bottom of the page with an empty profile. :ph34r: If you are in the ministry and about ready to explode, take your time and look around and have a cuppa Joe on me. B) Nothing could be finer than just sitting in a diner drinkin' Joe with no designer java jive. Well, it appears my hands were not on my computer correctly the title should be "Welcome shortfuse." Anyone know how to edit your thread title?

Well, I don't think I have the....well intestinal fortitude for something like that. It takes a real man or woman to choke back a couple of testicles. :blink:

My bro and family are most definitely still on the road right now. What would really be bad is if there are people stuck on the road when this one hits. I lived through a number of huricanes growing up in Corpus Christi and then a few more when in Florida. I think after living through a bunch and after seeing the predictions be off, at times way off, that people get a little complacent. That is until Katrina. That being fresh in everyone's mind I think this time people are being a lot more cautious.

Irisheyes, the cone of Jesus is an entirely different thread.

I vote YES, he had his own little pocket sized edition and the angle Moroni gave him magic specticles to read the small print.

Of course there were desent people in twi. What is the point? These women didn't seem to hurt people like their husbands did. Instead, they sat by while their husbands damaged many people, many families. I could name quite a few good, desent, well meening, people in the der Vey, look at all of you. Well, most of you. Although, none of you (I don't think) had a spouse that hurt hundreds if not thousands of lives and families while you sat by idealy. A good woman, maybe. I'll put a star on my refrigerator for her.

Congrats Oak. Boy, around here you can't get a fixer upper for less than 300K and that is on a .25 acre or so.

Two words, Wing. Not Here

Recompense for our error? I guess it's those southern coastal cities with all the error and corruption. Thank God I live here in CO which, judging by the occuance of natural disasters, is where He apparently thinks we are living a nearly perfect life.

I guess it depends on your perspective and the value one puts on innocent life. These days most of us care about innocent life and the lose of it in tragedies like these. Although, these things happen all the time and the ones that the majority get choked up about are the ones getting all the news coverage. Of course, the God of Noah supposedly felt the best thing to do was to wipe out the entire world except for one family. That story is taught to children young and old without a tear. I can only imagne what old testament folks would have thought about a city like "Nollins". Sodom? Gamomrrah?

I thought discerning of spurts was a manifestation and not a gift. This little wayfer needs to be re-indoctrinated. He's slippin'.

Well on the last page there is the signature "A B ____". Could the "A" stand for Allan? Hmmmm

WOW Great blog. I read a few as well. This guy is really good too.365 and a Wake Up These guys and gals really give you a clear picture of what is going on over there day to day. Here is a small list of soldier bloggers with a link to another good list.

Actually that gets right to this issue. When you have nothing to hide...you have nothing to hide...when you do, you do. If that is better then hip hip horray for them. Keep it on the down low for a while, untill everyone forgets, untill it becomes useful again. If they have asked for forgiveness from their God then coming clean before those you hurt should be no problem. ...and no I don't think that will ever happen and I ain't holdin' my breath. When I got mugged I had to come before a group of leaders and peers to tell them how I was going to change for the better, become a stronger manOgod. What have they done? Denied denied denied. "We never had a policy about this, we never siad that. That is all in the past. We are moving forward." If only it was all that easy. Ignore what I stole yesterday, today I haven't stolen a thing and I am not going to dwell on the past. Besides LCM made me do it. lol What a joke. A sad joke.

How do you measure "better?" Where on the yardstick does twi go from bad to good? And isn't it relative to where you live, how much you are involved etc? I know that in one area someone I know is trying to make things better. He recognizes that there have been problems but limits his understanding of how deep it goes and how bad it was/is to his own experiences. So where he lives things are better...at least for him they seem to be. I only know his perspective. What of other areas and with other leaders? What of the systemic problems that were the root cause of the first major problem and the next and the next...? Have those things been changed? Have they been changed publically? Is still teaching that college loans are a bad idea a good thing for their kids? Have they ever said anything about the "genuine spiritual suspicion" teaching being wrong? Do they acknowledge that the M&A policy was a policy and has changed? Have they admitted that getting out of debt was a policy from the seasoned wayfer on up and publically said that policy was wrong? Have they apologized to all the people they hurt? Have they even publically acknowledged that they hurt many people at least among thier rank and file? I could ask hundreds of other questions to which the answer would be: NO. So have they changed for the better? "For how long?", would be my next question. How long till the next person gets hurt? How long before the next person realises they have wasted half of their life with a fake ministry? How long before the current scandals are made known?

Sorry for being late... I think that after being in twi for twenty years and getting in at such a young age makes it hard to say, "oh this, this is the thing that made me a good person and not this." What makes you who you are? A number of factors: genetics, how you were raised, and then the constant of experience. They all kind of work together and overlap, but I think to a large degree those early years...how you were raised, how you were loved has a lasting impact on your psyche. I think in part your genetics has something to do with how you accepted or coped with those things. But there are so many variables and we are so complex... As my dad has told me,"Your mom and OSD raised three very good boys. That is to their credit." I think what it comes down to it that most people are good, just flawed. I really think that regardless of my involvement with twi I would still be a good person. I would still have successes and failures. I would still be mostly happy but sometimes get very angery. I regret not doing certain things like think for myself a little more and stick up for myself when I didn't, but all those sliding doors would have left me somewhere else. Right here is pretty great. I can't complain. Well, yes I could but you know what I mean. So did my years in twi make me a better person? I guess. Better than what? I have fond memories and not so fond ones. Where would I have been without them? I don't know. All I know is that I enjoy the here and now and if it weren't for my past that would be somewhere else. Life is a learning experience...the good, the bad, the ugly.

Wow. That is sad.

I have a 3 yr old nephew whose mother speaks only Russian to him and whose father speaks only English. Half of the time he speaks niehter of them understand what he is saying. He has a made up language which to us non-Russian speaking relatives sounds like Russian. We look to his mother to see what he has said and she shrugs and says he is just making up words. Yes it really is remarkable what us kids could do. I started doing what I thought was SIT at the age of 5. By the time I was a young adult my "tounge" had change a number of times, each one being rather elaborate. I have gone over this many times with people here and in the real world with no real satisfactory answers. Perhaps I will come back with some of those questions again, but deep down I know they can't be answered. The only way to confirm your SIT is real is through you faith, which isn't realy a confirmation at all. So as for Lorna, one must have faith that there is a "body of Christ" in order to think that they are doing something that is edifying such a body. So we can't really be ripping anyting to shreds as long as you still have faith it is real unless the ideas expressed here are in some way causing you to doubt. I doubt that they are, so you have nothing to worry about.

deleted because Trefor posted and I don't want to catch anything. ;)-->

In the end your reasons for leaving need to be just that...YOUR REASONS. If they don't make sense to someone else, tough. You don't owe anyone an explanation. Now if you want to try and wake a few people up in the process that is another story. I think some of Geeks points in his paper are very good in terms of confronting the problems of TWI part Duh but leave some very foudational doctrinal issues out of the equation. That is fine, but for many current wayfers LCM is in the past and now they are working for a greener grass TWI part TWOt. They won't care. I think Oak's questions are some very good general questions that approach TWI ministry as a whole and the problems with how they run their business and treat their people. Those are legitamate questions. They may or may not have justified these things for themselves already. If you want to confront issues such as plagiarism that takes even more time if you want proof. It is very easy for many of us here that already don't like the ministry to believe what anonymous voices on the internet say because over time we have come to trust their internet persona. But to the "skeptic of skeptics" believer you are going to need more that just the word of an avatar. This can take time. Time you could be wasting going to a fellowship twice a week. So here is my suggestion: If these are people that really are close with you and the TWI has really become "nicer" then, tell them you are leaving in the simplest terms as possible and let them know in a way that keeps that closeness intact. Then do your studying and you ex-way thesis. Keep the lines of communication open as long as it makes you comfortable, but as soon as it makes you uncomfortable or as soon as you are spending all you time arguing with these folk, let them go for a while. Keep in mind their state of mind. I have recently reopened communication regarding twi with an innie relative that is a leader. I am treading softly right now and it is tough. This person is not stupid and is not a waybot. The person is not unlike me and your husband- in from an early age- knows little else (biblically). There are still a lot of sensitive issues that won't be discussed in the form of a top ten. They will need to be brought up over time. This is a difficault process to figure out for me- what to bring up first and how. I want the communication to flow and I want to be respectful but I don't want to hold back, although in someways it is neccessary at this time. So in short Good luck. Get out. (Oh, just gave myself away with that language of possession) ;)-->

Would you really wish twig (old wine skin) on any of these people? Be nice. "Oprah, please SIT and interpret." "Elvis, word of phophecy, please." "Jack Black, would you start the horn-O-plenty around?" Zena, warrior pricess: "Please, turn to number 72 'Got Any Rivers'." "Jesus, would you...Jesus? Dammit, where is that Jesus? We always leave that chair open for him...where is he?" Now a cup of tea or a beer or wine with some good food and good conversation with any of the above people would be one of the best things I could think of. Some real fellowship, none of this follow-the-bouncing-hand-leader-follower-with-refreshments-BS. I think I even have some good tea that I think Jesus would have liked.

Nice. LMAO thanks.