lindyhopper

Ah HA! Here you go. Perhaps he was living there untill his depression was gone.

It has been discussed here often, but I've never heard anything definitive...just a lot of trying to connect the dots. I believe someone linked a document showing that twi owned a home in Toledo. LCM lived there (Toledo) and perhaps still does. After supposedly getting the boot, he was living with "believers" in Toledo. Not exactly typical twi probation treatment. There may have been some other dots, but I don't remember. It does seem odd that twi would own a residential home somewhere outside of NK. When I look at the big picture and the way things went down, it is easy for me to think that he is infact still supported by twi. Like I said, though, I haven't seen anyone post anything about it with certainty.

I'll second what the others have said to Jonny, and add that it has been rumored that Jamie Lee Curtis was born intersexual (the medical term) but had surgery to fix it. In her case, as in many other cases, she was born female on the outside with male organs on the inside. Sorry to burst any teenaged fantasies. I knew a girl in college that had two sets of female organs, both being small and I believe not really operative. Sexuallity is a funny thing. It basically, comes down to hormones and then organs. Did you know that we all start out female.....and with tales? Anyways, while most of the time things work out that most of us are one or the other (male or non-male ) there is a whole spectrum of the "inbetween." ------------------------------------------------------- Lookout. As you said, the poll was poorly constructed, but I don't really think a better poll will get you a real definitive answer. There used to be 30K people involved with twi. Now there is an estimated 4 -5K, I believe. That is a lot of people that are out. Of those, many moved on to splinter groups, some of which post here, but many of which don't. I don't really know how many of those people could be considered as "recovered" or not. I think those of us that post here are a small fraction of the 30K-ish that were once involved in twi. I would think it is hardly a significant sample size. Although, if you did want a more clear idea of GS posters, perhaps do two polls, one for men and one for women. Ask the same questions of both and compare. Still I would think that those that post here would be much more likely to take the poll than those that never post or rarely post. Just a thought. IMO, I doubt it is all that different between the sexes and honestly I don't think it matters at all. Lindy

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, SV.

I would think ABS will being her main sourse of income for years to come. Much like stay at home moms that meet with a divorse and have trouble re-entering the job market, Donna has been "first lady" for over 20 years now. That is 20 years, probably a bit more, without a secular job. I'm sure LCM sends some funds to his family, but given his jobs, I doubt it is much. On the other hand, if he is indeed still living in a twi owned home, while his wife's food and housing are taken care of a la ABS, zero debt, perhaps he can afford more than the average Joe.

Yahoo has an article on dreams up today. Apparently, introverts remember thier dreams more than extroverts.

I agree with what most of you are saying. To me it is basically common sense. Although, I have trouble with what seems to be contradictory statements in some parts of the Bible. I also don't quite see that some here have forgiven when they say they have. I for one won't fault you for that. I personally don't see forgiveness as a required step in moving on or it as a stop block for bitterness. To use as a frame of reference, as usual... a dictionary. forgive- 1 To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon. 2 To renounce anger or resentment against. 3 To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example). Number 1 gives me a sense of restoring or reconciling. Simply because in my mind to pardon someone in prison, is to let them go free. Now that may not mean the victims of the crime have pardoned the person but the state has and has restored this person to a normal life. Around here I don't see many people excusing VPW or LCM of any faults. #2 is more along the lines of what I think people are saying around here and is what those that post threads on why we need to forgive TWI leaders, are trying to get us to do in order to get rid of all our bitterness. Although, when I read posts about what has happened to people many times by people that say they have moved on and forgiven, I still get a strong sense of anger and resentment. Again, I have no problem with that, if fact I think it is justified and I think there are still ways to move on and still have a healthy dose of anger. #3 doesn't really apply here, although, there have been many threads in which people expressed how they wished they had all thier ABS back. lol. It would be nice. So, to those that claim to have forgiven but not forgotten, in what way have you forgiven? Are there biblical examples of forgiving but not forgetting? STL, gave some in which forgiveness meant restored to thier former position, although, I believe those involved repentence. Then there are the Gospels I quoted in which two said just forgive and one said forgive after repentence. I see Rascal agrees the later is the accurate way to go. What about the rest of you? Raf said the earlier part of those verses, "judge not, and you will not be judged", is hyperbole. What about the forgiveness parts? Plus, isn't it kind of unforgiving of God to not forgive you just becasue you have not forgiven? Say all I have done is stolen and repented, but I haven't forgiven someone who molested me, does that seem just? What about the verse in Matt 18? Is he talking about different sins or about the same sin?What about the verse in Luke that Belle quoted? If someone hits you let them do it again. If someone steals something from you, don't forbid them to take more from you. How do you make these verses line up for you in light of how you see forgiveness? It is clear there is forgiveness going on. Maybe you don't forget, but in these verses it seems like you are to act as though you have. Lastly, there is Eph. 4 and 5 again. Chaper 4 gives a list of things not to do and ends with "forgive as God for Christ's sake has forgiven you." Chapter 5 begins with other sins in which it says they should not be named once among the saints and that there is no inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and God. So is there a distinction in sins? Are there some that you should forgive while others you should just "leave up to God to sort out?" OK, really last thing, is quoting Jesus's example really a legit thing to do in light of Mat 9:6, Mar 2:10, and Luk 5:24, in which it talks about the "Son of man" having "power on earth to forgive"? Thats all for now.

Damn__ .............\___IT!

There is a lot of stuff in the Bible about forgiveness that I find interesting. Not all of it seems to jive for me. I guess it all depends on how you interpret the Bible and what you do to make it fit for you whether it be administrations or whatever else. I know I'm off the hook, but...I like to look at what I used to think I knew. Let's see... don't ask me why the quote thingy isn't working for me In the old testament there are verses that show people asking for thier enemies to be forgiven and verses asking for thier enemies not to be forgiven. Psm. 103:12 Context shows this is in reference to those that "fear" him (God). NT: He then tells the parable of the King who forgave the debt of servant and then the servant didn't forgive his fellowservant's debt and so the King tortured him. Looks like God will forgive you your sins only if you forgive other people's sins. Don't judge and you won't be judged, don't condemn and you won't be condemned, but if you don't forgive you'll be both judged and condemned. Says nothing about repentance in any of those. But, look at Luke 17: Sounds like the same account as the others but with the addition of "repent." So which is it? I know the one I like best. :) It also seems to line up with 1Jo 1:9... How's bout' Luke 12 I believe TWI taught this as the unforgivable sin, seed of the serpent, but I don't think it is that clear there. It says those that speak evil of God won't be forgiven. You don't have to be "seed" to do that. It also doesn't say anything about repentance, just that you won't be forgiven. Interesting. All tresspasses here. Different administration here, depending on who you are talking to. Then of course there is Eph. 4 So don't do all those things but also forgive if you do. Forgive the way God has forgiven you. See previous citations for that. Confused? This comes right after "forgive as God for Christ's sake has forgiven you" and "sealed until the day of redemption." Yet, for those things there is no place in the kingdom of Christ and of God. I feel the doctrinal forum coming on. Sorry

No, I am a nerd when it comes to some things and you must be a card carrying member. Although, wouldn't "believe" both connote action and inaction?

With only four corps at rodeo school, they would all have to be clowns.

So does this mean the "Decade of Dictatorship" is over?

That is a tough one...trying to figure out that if a God that we can not figure out even exists had a hand in the destruction of the Gulf Coast, or did this possible God just let it happen. Then, if that God did let it happen or make it happen would It want us to help those people who are in serious need or let them rot away? Hmmm. Or, if this said God had the control to make the hurricane hit the evil New Orleans wouldn't said God have the power to wipe out all those that It wanted to? The same would go for allowing these same people to be wiped out or barely saved. Then what would this God want us to do with the left overs? Did he want some people to die in the hurricane and others to die slowly afterward or did he want to ruin the lives of many of the living and have the rest of us pick up the pieces? Boy, the questions could just keep coming when not knowing what a possible all knowing, all powerful, everywhere present God would want. I sure am glad I don't have to deal with that. I just care about people, no matter their size, color, sex, or geograpihcal location. I decide to help when I can, where I can and when I feel I can make a difference.

Nothing discussed on this board REALLY matters that much to those of us that are out now. Although, not all of us posting here are out and not all of those still in are dub saps. Anyways, enquiring minds want to know.

"Aaaaaaahhhhhhhh! My facial hair is exploding!"

It has been discussed here a few times as to whether or not LCM still has a hand in the decision making. I don't think it is implausable. Although, seeing as he has had or still does have a job as either a UPS guy or a Personal Trainer at Bally's, I think his capacity would be more as a consultant if anything. I always think of how after the law suits were announced they were still ready to give him the job of "head of research". It seems they were pretty hesitant to give him the boot and they haven't denounced any of his teachings, even the crazier ones. His wife also still lives and works(?) at HQ. So it would seem it would be easy for him to still have a foot in the door. Corperations can have a board or commitee, perhaps it is the Trustee Cabinet or the BOD. I would think it would be more likely the BOD. Perhaps it is thier lawyers.

I saw some references to Ken Wilber and recognized some of the catch phrases. I know of at least one poster on this board that is involved with some of his stuff and wonder if he knows or is involved in this sort of thing. If he stops in, perhaps we will hear another perspective. From what I am reading on those links, it does seem awfully like Wayferland, but they have moved on from 8th grade English. The anti-blog talks of harsh discipline used on students, like the leader guy slapping them or having someone else slap them. Maybe this helps the evolutionary process.

Yes, actually. The Moynihans with the Adams Family..... Are Lurch and Thing included in the picture? What about cousin It? Did the Moynihans coordinate thier outfits with the Adams Family by wearing all black? Just curious.

So are you saying that now that you are out, that it is "hard out here for a pimp"? Just so you know, I am ready and willing to drink the koolaid from the diamond studded gold goblet of the The First Church of the PimpJuice Clergy.

Sweet pic, JL. I haven't seen a bore tide quite that big, but while I was there you could definitely see them coming in. There really isn't a bad view on that road...like mountains rising up out of the water. I have family who totalled an RV on a moose once. I believe the moose walked away from that one. Never been to Homer, but I hear that drive is just as nice.

Excellent topic, Mstar. I love driving. When we lived in MD we would drive out hear to CO all the time. Of course we would pretty much do the straight shot with little sleep. But when you consider the time it takes to drive to the airport, deal with security and check-in, fly and deal with the airport at the other end and still drive to where ever you are going, the 26-27 hour drive was well worth it. I discovered that even Kansas on I-70 is a beautiful place. Since JL piped in about Maryland, I must say that without a doubt the greatest highway I have ever been on is Seward Highway. It stretches from Anchorage to Seward driving through one of the worlds last great wildernesses. It travels along the Turnagain Arm (where the rushing tide can change 12' during the day) and down through the Kenai peninsula, where you can turn off any of the very few side roads and get lost forever, and be utterly content. The pictures on the link do not give it justice. Since moving to CO my family has become Sunday drivers. We will just take a drive with no perticular destination and no perticular course and just explore the roads. It doesn't take much to get away around here. So when we want to talk or just chill we will take a drive. Damn those gas prices! Anyway, many of the roads around here don't really get you anywhere other than somewhere else in CO, although taking the northern route you could take 14 out of Fort Collins and connect to Rt-40 and that will get you to Utah. Of course, Rt-40 was a transcontinetal highway. Much of it is burried under other larger highways now, but it is still around in some very scenic areas of CO and many other places. We always take the back road to I-70 from Boulder. That takes you down 93 along the foothills and the Flatirons to Golden, home of Coors. From there we take rt-6 (also once a transcontinetal road going from MA to CA) through what I believe is called Clear Creek Canyon. It follows Clear Creek as you might suspect. Once you reach I-70 you have to continue on to the old mining town of Idaho Springs and stop in for pizza at Beau Jo's. It's the best. One must-drive is Trail Ridge Road through Rocky Mountain National Park. It is the "highest continuous motorway in the United States, with more than eight miles lying above 11,000' and a maximum elevation of 12,183'." It is closed in the winter months so hit it in the spring and summer. Of course, up there it can snow on July 4th. I could go on and on....

Well it wasn't that long after the music challenge they had in the mid 80's. I recall a few bands that were desent, but what do I know I was a kid that liked Bon Jovi shiver. Paul Stanley was pretty good at the time. I think it must have been a combo of the POP exodus and control coming out of the closet. I'm with GT, stop singing. Although, Fr@nk St*ts used to do the best Micheal Jackson dancing I have ever seen. They should let that boy dance some more. I don't know if it would stop sucking but it would be much more entertaining.

Just wait until they get a little more internet savey. They will start saying. VPW says on page 2 of Lifelines, and I bracket Quote bracket 'We were born to live, born again to serve, but baby we were born to ruuuuuuun' bracket backslash unquote bracket. Actually I believe that was version 20 of Lifelines, edited by Bruce Springsteen. They don't also use two fingers on each hand to signify quoting while saying "quote" do they. That would be really annoying.

...and to get back on topic. "The borrower is slave to the lender" Seems odd that no one I have heard of in twi has ever said anything about the word "landLORD" Rent is debt. Homeownership is the only way out of that one. Or homelessness. We have some great ones around here. I saw a guy holding a sign up the other day that said, "Won't work for sh!+." His buddy next to him had one that said, "Broke, tired, and ugly. Anything will help."

30,000 is not even much of a down payment around here. I left before BM (lol) took over down there and I believe the G****s' took my parent's place. From what I have heard from folks down there and read on here it seems they undid a lot of the good my folks had done. It seems like that was the way of the 90's.