Nottawayfer

I don't regret my involvement in twi because I feel my eyes are more wide open due to my involvement. However, I do regret that it took my hard head to realize how corrupt and wrong they were before I decided to leave. I spent all of my 20s an 30s in that damn place.

Skyrider, were you at the special Corps Meeting held the day before the ACS 2000 started right after lcm was booted or left? I am asking because I had a friend who was Corps who told me that Rosa-lie had reproved the Corps for knowing about lcm's sexcapades and not speaking up about it. This friend also told me that women who had sex with lcm were told to tell their husbands or that "they" would. If this is true, it is very interesting that "they" knew who had done the deed with the MOG. Can you verify this? Or anyone else??

They told us ahead of time when and where they were going. Lcm said that if someone truly had a problem that they should write him with their thoughts....yeah right....That was an invitation to get your arse kicked. When they brought up the Corps and Staff taking a 10% cut in pay, it was presented for a certain amount of time (a little over a year??? can't remember exactly). When the time came to re-evaluate everyone's salaries, I would be surprised if people got back the 10%. They were very stingy. I made less than $600 a month when I went and still made even less when I left 5 years later. I got in major credit card debt because I couldn't handle my finances and was scared as hell to tell anyone. I didn't want scrutiny or yelling. It still peeses me off to think about it today.

There are Sprint PCS cards for laptops. It may be slower than you are used to, but at least you can keep a cyber connection.

Let me start off by saying that the intention of this thread is not to discuss whether you feel you need a personal relationship or a savior. While twi made fun of groups who raised holy hands, I really belive they were missing out on something. In another thread, I was reminded of how closed off I was from my childhood. I was emotionally unavailable because of upbringing. When I got involved in twi, I learned to love people and show it to them. However, while in twi I never learned how to love God fully. I know keeping His commandments, etc. was showing my love for him. But I craved a personal relationship. I didn't realize this until I was thinking about leaving. I had been empty in my communication with God for YEARS. SIT wasn't doing it for me because it seemed so one-sided. I wasn't hearing anything back. Since leaving, I've been involved in churches which have a praise and worship portion of their service. I can't tell you how healing this has been to my life. I feel like I've been more opened to a new world of communication with Him. It reminds me of someone who has been abused and who has closed themselves off. In order for them to even start feeling like they are moving on and getting healed, they need to talk about it and get the load off their shoulders. They need to cry about it and feel loved. They sometimes need to hear about their own self worth. In this world there are a lot of hurts and abuse. There are days when we feel we can't bear the burden anymore. I found refuge in surrendering myself to the Lord. It does not mean that He takes over and possesses me. That is a huge misunderstanding from way days. They had no idea what that was about. Surrendering yourself is a way to unload your burdens to Him and to allow Him to hear you and heal you. Sometimes it involves in raising your hands while singing songs of worship to Him, or it may be just a quiet prayer with just you and Him. I've had some tormenting things stirring in my heart, this form of worship has allowed Him to speak to me. I'm not saying this is the only way to hear from Him. I'm just saying it has been a great therapy for me. Anyone else care to tell of similar experiences?

Great example Linda. :D--> Everybody know there used to be days in twi where you would get love bombed by people. Especially at the ROA. Hugs and kisses were abundant. Some of it inappropriate though. When I first got involved in twi, I felt really uncomfortable by all of this. I thought my first TC was a lesbian because of it...LOL...she wasn't. These days you just don't see that in twi. Remember the days when you would see people reunite at the ROA? It was like they hadn't seen a long lost friends for almost a life-time. My family became better at being able to show love. Even though my Dad never bought in to it, he took pfal. He didn't like the believers. I understand why. He had always been a man who never showed affection. I'm sure it was out of fear because he never grew up with that either. We all became less afraid to show it after getting into twi. My Dad hugs my husband and my brother-in-law today. He is a lot more open because the rest of us kept it going. We made it the "norm", and so it allowed my Dad to become comfortable with it also.

I always thought fondly of Mrs. W. She was always extremely gracious to me also. Although I didn't know her on a personal level, I saw her in the halls of HQ, and she frequented the department I worked in to ask questions. Anytime I saw her in the hall, she acknowledged you. If you consider that she knows everyone at HQ will want to say hi to her, that is a HUGE task. There were almost 400 people there. There were people I saw on a regular basis who NEVER acknowledged others in the halls. She was always eager to share any goodies or treats she just received after going to the mail room. She always gave the Staff Blue Bunny bars on her own birthday. She was different than the rest of those who were bigwigs in twi. It was refreshing. She always made trips to buy presents to present them to the Staff children. She held Christmas parties in her own home for the Staff children. She didn't have to do any of this. She wanted to. Despite who she was married to or why she continued to support lcm, she displayed a lot of love to people. I remember hearing that she thought vpw was crazy to do some of the things he did in order to start up the ministry. She was probably stuck in that situation. Maybe divorce wasn't an option to her. Divorce wasn't a way of life like it is today. I never worshiped her or made her a hero. She was always a nice lady who went out of her way to make people feel welcomed and comfortable. That's a quality a lot of people in this world could imitate, including myself.

Littlehawk, that sounds yummy! I am going to try that! I also like to mix up roma tomatoes, sliced cucumbers, and red onion covered with a dressing of olive oil, balsamic vinegar, and a little sugar.

No I don't wake up feeling like crap every day. Only when I stay up past midnight, which isn't too often. Thanks, Linda, I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't smoke (quite in 1994), and I forgot what kind of things it does to you. I'm asthmatic now too. I'm sure that didn't help. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think 42 or even 65 is old. My Dad is 68, and he is very active for his age. Whenever we are out in the woods hiking, he runs circles around all those younger than him. He has a vicious stride. I don't feel almost 42 except when I stay out late. And I certainly don't look almost 42. Nobody ever believes me when I tell them my age. They always guess 28-34. I like that. ;)-->

OMG Evan! ROFLMAO!! I can see it now---NOT!!!

Very well put def! Thanks! :D-->

Hubby and I went to Vegas last night to go see Toby Keith in concert. It lasted until 11:30 ro so. We donated some money to the slot machines and then headed home. We got there by 2:00 a.m. I went directly to bed. I woke up today feeling hung over. I didn't have any alcohol and drank quite a bit of water. I remember the days when I could go out drinking all night long, get up and go again. Is this what happens when you get old? I surely don't feel old unless I stay up too late. I'm turning 42 in a few months. What's up with that?

Let me say this is not to minimize any of these things done to people who were involved. Wrong is wrong no matter where it happens. And wrongs done in an organization that says it teaches people to love God is purely evil. My intent on this thread is to express that there isn't just one way. Diversity is what I'm talking about here.

As someone who was enlightened by GSC, I can say that a lot of things I found out helped me to exit twi. I started posting as an innie in October 2002. Ironically I started posting after chastising my innie boyfriend (ex BF now) at the time for even reading GSC. He came to my house for lunch one day telling me all kinds of things he read and how F'd up twi is. This was based on things he read in GSC. It must have stirred my curiousity because I had only read GSC a little after I left HQ. I never dared to read it while on Staff because someone would have caught me since the only internet available was at the local libraries. At that time, I thought posters were a bunch of disgruntled people who would say anything. Because of the ex-boyfriend, I started to read GSC once again. Then more things happened in my life because of twi which started to make me question my involvement. The control they were trying to take over my personal life was a HUGE issue for me. I started searching back in my mind the past 20 years of my involvement with twi to determine if it had been as rosy as I had been led to believe. NO! It wasn't!!! I made a decision that the ACS 2002 would be my decision-making moment with my future of twi. That trip was a huge waste of money! It was re-hashed crap which had already been taught and then presented to advanced class grads. Any newbie could have been there. It showed me twi was not growing. Making a decision to leave was an emotional time for me. I tried to talk myself out of leaving. I got into many discussions with GSers about it. I even got mad and told GSers they dwelling in their sorrow and that I was done posting. But then reality set in for me. I was STILL involved in a group trying to take over my life! I continued to read GSC even though I didn't post. Someone posted that they had information for me. I emailed them, and the rest is history. The email helped me to make my decision. It helped me to realize that I was unhappy and living a lie. No abundance, no real happiness, no harmony, nothing they promised on the green card. Sure, I could have been just as unhappy in any church, but I was in a group who deemed themselves THE ONLY ONE WITH THE TRUTH! How does that truth fit in with all of the practical errors over the years? This was a huge turning point for me. Thanks to GSC I left the first week of December 2002! GSC is not a perfect place either, but it does help people to see the reality of a terrible organization which calls itself godly.

I can say this honestly: I learned to show love to people. And I am not meaning in a sexual way. I was afraid to do this prior to being involved in twi because of my upbringing. I can say this despite a lot of abusive things which happened because there was a handful of good people who really tried to live what they were teaching.

Yum! I love it with fuji apples and pecans instead of walnuts. I also buy those baking raisins because they are moist and tender.

There were lies, manipulation, sexual secrets, wrong or plageurized doctrine, and downright mean people at times. You can find this is in any denomination, any church, or any culture. What was really wrong in my opinion? The chastisement for deciding that twi was not for you. There have been literally thousands who left after taking the foundational class. On my WOW year, we were considered successful because we ran 7 classes that year (there were 4 wow families). Only one person hung around after they took the class. He ended up cutting out when the fog years rolled in. Where was the fruit of our labor??? It was wrapped up in the vanity of having the best Bible class around (or so we thought). Those who left were tricked because they didn't accept the Word....They had spit in God's face.....whatever -->. We have no idea for the most part where those people went or what happened in their lives. There are people out there who don't necessarily get excited about the same things, and that is OK. It's fine. As a matter of fact, it's great! That's what makes us indivuals and uniquely different. It provides the spice in life. The stupid idea that people are influenced (or possessed) by the Devil or tricked because they don't want to hang out with YOUR group is WRONG!! Who cares where people go to find God. The idea is that they do find Him. I started off before taking pfal to find God. I was sufficed with SITing for awhile. Then the egotism in knowing the Bible kept me going the rest of the time. However, I still didn't really find Him in 20 years of my involvement. I do now. I guess for me, it took being involved in twi to get to that point. It could be a lot different for the rest of you. Maybe you don't feel you need to know Him. I guess I am trying to say, Live and let live. You don't have to join MY (or any other) group to be prosperous, healthy, virbrant, or right. :D-->

Oh yeah, and I do understand the Bible better. I know verses and they, like in Laleo's situation, do end up comforting me in a lot of situations.

I learned to love myself. I never had that for myself prior because I was not in an environment growing up to understand or know that. My parents weren't horrible, but they were swimming in their own dysfunctional ways and had no business really to bring any children into th world. They never encouraged us to do much. Miraculously (IMHO) my sister and I got out of that dysfunction and are pretty happy individuals despite all we've been through. I do attribute that partly to twi (particularly Walter C's corny class on the renewed mind).

They were at HQ when I left in 2001. Lou was the Purchasing Dept Coord., and Teresa worked in Way Pub. I would be surprised if they left HQ honestly. It seems that DM's sisters liked to stay around her.

I still know of many who stay because of the doctrine. I know one (who was booted out of the corps by the current corps coord and came home telling me twi was a damn cult) who still stays for that very reason. That person saw many bad things happen in twi but still continues to stay blinded over doctrine. Let's say that twi had all doctrine right, but they continue with actions of the past. Their doctrine is nill if it isn't being practiced. Remember martinfart saying practical error ALWAYS leads to doctrinal error? It was that very thing that kept ringing in my ears until I decided to depart. Boy, he had a HUGE beam in his eye!! Thanks, Craig, for helping me make my decision. :)--> When I first left, the JCNG thing was a HUGE issue in my mind. When I started to realize I needed to be in a loving environment where Christ (NOT an absent one) was preached, I started to get healing and understanding.

Actually they came on Staff while I was at HQ. They came on Staff around 1997. They left the same year I did, 2001, to be the BCs in Tennessee, I think Nashville. I don't know about the Corps Alumni thing. I saw Terry at the ACS in 2002, and he was doing great. He said Bronte was great also. I think they went to Tennessee to be closer to aging parents.

I am happy for you, Zix. I know how it feels to FINALLY meet your soulmate. I met mine (on a dating website!!) and married him after 4 short months. We have been married for 1 1/2 years, and every day continually confirms I made a great decision. I agree caution should be exercised in making life-time decisions, but when you know, you just know. Enjoy each other!

I left is 2002 and didn't give any explanations except to my boyfriend at the time. He knew it was coming though. I had been threatening to get the H out of twi, but his influence slowed the process. I sent emails to the BC and FC telling them that I would not be attending anymore fellowships or anything that had to do with twi. The BC had sent me an email asking what happened for me to get to that point, but I ignored it because I didn't want to keep a line of contact going just so they could try to talk me back in to it. I have/had?? one friend who is still on Staff at HQ, and last I spoke to her was a few months ago. She inquired some, but when I brought up things which involved lcm, she just shrugged it off "because he's not around anymore." Somehow they think they can forget all the damage caused by that lunatic and expect people to keep moving on without explanations or apologies. MANY apologies are owed on that butthead's behalf. But it will be a cold day in hell too. That's OK, God handles things fairly. That keeps me sane about it all for now.

Come early for a good seat in the back! :P-->