Nottawayfer

Oak, Congratulations! That is a huge thing to tackle and overcome. I'm in the same boat right now. Every month I kick my own foot. Then I remember all the trips I went on (I LOVE Mexico A LOT!!!)and the things I bought and still enjoy. Then I kick my own foot some more. How long did it take you to get out of debt? Right now I'm banking on selling our house next year for a large amount of money and using some of the money to pay it off. Then I'm calling all of the mafia banks and telling them to never give me a limit over $3,000.

I live in the middle of the Bermuda Triangle of Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and Phoenix also know as Kingman! God help me! I hope to get out some day. :D-->

I was a WOW in Midland 1984-85. I stayed there until 1988. San Angelo? Yes, it was about 3 hours from Midland if I remember right. We drove there once to see Lake Nazworthy. We stayed, mumbled something about Lake Nastyworthy, and drove back home. Sorry, that's all I remember about it. That was a long, long time ago. What do you expect from a couple of Oregonians? West Texas is not God's country to west coasters.

Gosh, I thought they went to HQ in 2001.

Good news BikerB! That's ridiculous. I think you can get a passport easier than a driver's license. My hubby just did, and all he sent was his birth certificate. I went to the DMV to get my new name on my driver's license, and a marriage certificate wouldn't work. I had to show a social security card with the new name on it. I went to social security got the card and then went to DMV. Yeah, it's a dang runaround. I got my name changed on my passport and had to only send the marriage license.

TED Ferrell, could you see your PTs please.

I would hit the road if a church consistently had classes and pressured people to attend. That is a HUGE no-no in my book. I won't sit through anymore darn classes. We did study the "Purpose Driven Life" book in our small group for a while. The thing I liked is if I didn't read the assignment that week, there was no condemnation from anyone. They realized that people had lives outside church. My way is to always have a comment about something, so I was one of the more active talkers in the discussion.

Health cards huh? I wonder if the Staff has to pay for it themselves. Although they supposedly make "normal" salaries now. But they have to pay rent, even if they are living in the dorms. When I was first on staff, we got 100% of our medical paid. After we took the 10% pay cut, they changed to reimbursing us for 80% of our medical expenses (including prescriptions), although our "living on a need basis less 10% salaries" were never adjusted to have to pay for the 20% of our medical needs. We just had to steal from Peter to pay Paul in our budgets. I just went in debt with my credit card. Talk about living in fear. Like we had so much money to spread around....gawd I'm glad I'm out of that place.

Bob, see your PTs.

Well, of course it does if you are out of your cult mentality. But he was still in cult mentality at that time, and so was I. Who at an ACS says they are doing horrible? Nobody ever says that when they are at a big way shin dig. At that time, I was so tormented about my involvement in twi. I had a nice big advanced class grad face on for all of my friends. I was involved in a dead-end relationship. But it was all good. I was an active adv class grad who was getting married the following summer. Boy did things get shook up two weeks after that. I left the damn cult, and I can truly say things have progressed nicely and improved over 100% in my life. I have a REAL man now, and I am happy to be with him for the rest of my days.

It is interesting twi put this on their website. Does this mean even us copouts can go and pay respects without getting arrested?

That is a good quality of a church IMHO. No pressure to become a "member". I have fully enjoyed churches who believe in water baptism. I had one lady at my small group who said I should consider getting re-baptized. I told her I didn't feel the need to do it. She said "Sure, the Lord will let you know." No pressure. That's what I like. I also think that if you don't believe all of the church's doctrine and are still accepted, that shows a lot of love and grace in their hearts. If you are arguing about doctrine, then that could be a different story. But if you are able to talk about doctrinal issues and question them without being "marked", then that is a good church also imho. :D-->

That's awesome! Thanks for sharing that. Were there people from HQ there also? I am just wondering since they probably had their own recognition service for her. This sure seemed different than what happened when Don W passed away. His brothers and sisters had to play according to twi's terms. But that was because Wanda was his wife, and she did whatever the BOD wanted her to do.

There are several ex-way sites who list people in it--like Cortwright page and No Dust. The link are at the top of this page.

I made the Bulgar Wheat salad last night--ROCKIN!!!! I had to soak the wheat longer though. I will soak the wheat the day before in the future. Hubby liked it too! Thanks!

Jan, If you click on Go on the top left side then click on Karma, you will see something like this: Karma Summary for Wayfer Not!Karma Points 1688 Karma Title Postaholic Karma Level 12 of 20 (20 is Best) Karma LevelsLevel Title Required Points 1 GS Discoverer 0 2 GS Regular 50 3 Knows the menu too well 250 4 Claims to live here 300 5 Needs a hobby 350 6 Idolizes Cheers Norm 450 7 Knows the chef 455 8 Able to post asleep 500 9 GS Irregular 510 10 I'm fine, really 600 11 Holy Grail, I don't need no stinkin Holy Grail 1000 12 Postaholic 1500 13 Thinks Gore won the election 3000 14 Two Words: Internet Anonymous 4000 15 5000!!!! Whoda thunk 5000 16 Wrote posting at GS into work contract 6000 17 Has worn out 34 Keyboards 7000 18 Missed a season of West Wing while posting 8000 19 Needs a fingertip transplant 9000 20 Has Arrived 10000 I just wanted to be Karaoke Queen, but Paw doesn't think I've arrived yet.

Isn't it so funny to think that a lot of people got stuck in twi because they thought it wasn't a religion. But it is a huge religion, not a recognized one, but it is one. It's full of formulas, which are no different than repeating the rosary a million times. I had this moment while I was on Staff where I was watching a commercial on TV advertising a praise and worship CD. At that point in my life, I started realizing I wanted and needed more to know Him. I hadn't known Him, and I had fooled myself by twi's doctrine that I had all I needed. At that time in my life, I had been surrounded by hundreds of like-minded people, yet I felt so lonely. It took the Lord a few more years to actually prick my heart hard enough to really search for my heart's desire. I left twi 1 1/2 years after I left HQ. Being at HQ opened up my eyes a lot. I went through a lot and put up with a lot. I really think had I not done that, I would have never made the decision to leave.

These two points hit me really hard after leaving twi. This church which promotes this is the first church I made "home" after shopping for one for awhile. There is nothing wrong with being a forgiven sinner. TWI seemed to forget that totally. In twi we sinned before we got "born again" and then we were perfect after that. Nobody even admitted to breaking fellowship. The reality is that we all screw up, and we all need forgiveness more than once after we get born again. This was a hard reality pill for me to swallow. Also not being a self-contained unit with all the answers....HELLO!!! This is totally twi's attitude. They know so much and have all the answers so they don't need any other unit to give them some ideas. TWI should get off it's high horse with it's spearhead of truth BS and get some humility. But then again, it will be a cold day in hell before that happens. Or would that be hades or gehenna?? See I don't even care because you know what I am trying to convey.

Yes, Raf, stop with the cones will ya???? I need to have some clear weather when I vacation in the Mexican Caribbean next month. Just say "NO" to hurricanes and cones.....yeah right.

I was wondering that too. Is that a southern term Miss Belle??

What's a Safe Church? Here's some things on that: Qualities of a "Safe Church" taken from "Safe People" by Cloud and Townsend. Grace is preached from the pulpit and is the foundation for how people are to be treated. Truth is preached without compromise, but also without a spirit of law and judgment. The church leaders are aware of their own weaknesses and need to grow and are open about their hurt, pain, failings, and humanity. Instead of "having it all together" and being insulated from confrontation and change, they are in a process of healing and opening up to their own safe people for support and accountability. The church uses small groups to touch people’s lives, and sermons focus on community in the body of Christ as well as doctrine. The culture is one of forgiven sinners, not self-righteous religious Pharisees. The church, instead of being a self-contained unit and thinking it has all the answers, is networked into the community, availing itself of input from other sources such as churches, professionals, and organizations. The teaching has a relational emphasis as well as a vertical one. Relationship between people is seen as part of spirituality as well as relationship to God. The teaching sees brokenness, struggle, and inability as normal parts of the sanctification process. ===================================== I liked most of these ideas. It helped me a lot when I moved away and wasn't able to go to CVCF. I ended up at a church where the pastor was very judgmental and worked people like dogs. We did not find this out until we were preparing for our wedding at his church. He had a lot to say about people if they decided to not attend his church after checking it out. He married us, and at our rehearsal, he made comments about a close friend who was preparing the reception dinner. She decided to go to another church. He made snide comments in front of my whole family. We later confronted him about his comments. His only response was "I'm sorry you were offended." That sealed it for us. We didn't want his church either. He pleaded with us to stay. We tried to explain that he should have been sorry for the comment he made in public about a person. He never did apologize for that. "I'm sorry you were offended" or "I'm sorry your feelings were hurt" doesn't claim to any wrongs done. We found a better church after that.

I thought I remembered JessieJoe coming back awhile ago posting under another name. She came back for a short while and then I didn't see again.

Jan, Did any of these churches have small groups? Small groups are a great way for people to get together outside the church and fellowship. I have seen them with all women, all men, singles, married, or even by interests (i.e. surfing). I made close friendships through small groups and had wonderful fellowship through them. We also make a point to talk to people before service or after. Sometimes we invite them to go out to eat after a service. My absolute favorite church is Canyon View Christian Fellowhsip http://www.cvcf.com. You can hear some of the teaching on the website. It's very people oriented, the teachings are applicable (better than most I ever heard in twi), and the praise and worship leader is the best! I like that the pastor promotes a "safe" church. You can find information about safe churches on the website. It's a completely different aspect than what we were taught in twi.

The churches I found that I like advertise they have a contemporary worship service.

I went to 1 AOG and it scared the H outta me. It was too weird: people on the floor, group prayer sounding like mourning, songs morose. It gave me an eerie feeling, so I never went back. I was raised in these churches before twi. The church I go to now has a few people who sit in the back and say "Come on!" when the pastor says something good. It used to really bug me, but I tune it out now. Some day I want to say "OK, where we going??"