Nottawayfer

Yep, old Craig Martindale was a big PANSIE and WOOSEY when it came to facing the public. He couldn't do it because we all know and he knows that he is the biggest hypocrite that ever existed. That's why I loved seeing him so uncomfortable at the dance I spoke about. There were many there ready to kiss the mogfart's arse that night, but he couldn't even face people. The fargin' idiots tried to start a line to hug and kiss the bastard. I guess they thought he was going to show up more often. I wanted to puke even back then. He used to give me the creeps. I used to think it was me afraid to be around the man of God. I'm glad I grew up and got more confidence after I left that hell hole. He is less than a man, and he deserves even more discomfort.

Chas, I just read your post today. Yes, I was at HQ at the time and I heard LCM was stepping down on a tape like the rest of the twits. He didn't have the balls to show up. We also heard about his "one-time affair" on tape. They had all of the departments listen to the tape at the same time.

Whe I got sick and tired of living in Ohio and decided to leave HQ, I got the devilish mountain spiel from a wacked out corps guy I worked with. I told him I was going back to God's country: the west. I am from Oregon, and I was moving to San Diego. Two of the sweetest spots on earth IMHO. This guy had the balls to tell me that all of those mountains would cause terrible things to happen in that part of the country. I dismissed his words because he had proved to be an arse and phoney the whole time I worked with him: 5 years. I missed martinpuke's teaching about mountains. Was it a corps meeting? I live in Arizona now, and I think Sedona is another beautiful place! Yet the previous LC of Arizona told the believers to stay away because of the spiritual influence there. Yes, there are a lot of strange things believed there, but who cares! It doesn't affect me, and most there are very nice. They don't try to convert you to crystalism and worship of caves and mountains.

"I'll say it before and I'll say it again: My wife, when she was single, was molested by LCM in a hotel room. He groped her, and she squared off with him, reminded him that he was married, and reminded him that "thou shalt not commit adultery" was part of "It Is Written" the Way Corps motto, and that of all people as the Corps Director, It Is Written should be very very important to him. And, it stopped him cold. He apologized, and never blackballed her either. So, I don't buy it that people were under a mysterious and unresistable power that was inescapable. I do believe that, according to this account, all three share in the responsibility for this guy's death. LCM, Ramona, and Brother Mitchell. Sadly, Tom Mitchell got the worst of it. Shoot, Ramona could have walked away back when I and so many others did. But, she liked being there. I remember her well, and she was always one to suck up to leadership. Power was intoxicating to her. She hit on me a time or two, but, she just seemed too power hungry for me. I saw it. And it's just too damned bad Tom didn't see through it. She was a sexy woman though, and very seductive. Sad as it is, we all have to pay (as Tom did), or will pay for our mistakes. LCM and Ms. Hannig Mitchell included. So sad that Tom didn't get out of there sooner, leaving Ramona behind for Craig. But, he loved her. A cruel tragedy to be sure..." Jonny, I am sure your wife is a confident woman. I am sure she woke up LCM at that time. However, you have to realize that not all women are confident. Put that to gether with a fear of men or fear of authority, and it is a dangerous combination. I had that fear of authority. I don't know what I would have done had I been in their shoes. It appears that the only ones who were blackballed were the ones who broke down mentally. They were a risk. I believe several of these women were confused and scared to buck authority. Mix that up with being given "special" drinks, and you have even a worse scenario. Yes, I belive there were some like R*amona who probably lived to be around authority and were just as guilty as the perpetrators. But there are few who are like her IMHO. Sex is an extremely sensitive and emotional thing for a lot of women. Abuse in that category can shatter them for a long, long time. I know you are not insensitive to these things. I just felt this needed to be brought up.

"Nothing says 'Love' like a new hymen." hahahahahahahah!!! If I were spending money on plastic surgery, I could think of better things to get than a new hymen. I agree with Dolly Parton when she said "If I see something is saggin', waggin', baggin, or draggin', I'm gonna fix it." Paying money like that to fix a farce is unreal IMHO.

I was divorced. I am married again. The two marriages are like night and day. There is no one answer to every relationship. Each relationship, I believe, gives us learning. Sometimes we have to touch the hot stove many times before we realize it is hot. I was in a few crappy relationships with twi men before I met my hubby. TWI did nothing to promote a healthy relationship. My husband and I are partners. Nobody calls the shots. We take each other's thoughts and opinions in to consideration. We don't always agree. That's when I get out a piece of paper and write down pros and cons or timelines so hubby can see what I am talking about. He is a kind of "live for today" kind of guy, and I am more of a planner. I remind him that we can't wait until the moment comes to make a decision. We come to a happy medium because neither of us are in charge. It's things like that that you have to learn at the beginning of a relationship before you make decisions. I had a whole list of questions for men that I was dating before I got married. If they were divorced, I wanted to know why. If they didn't know why, that was a red flag. I asked everything from "How much am radio do you listen to?" to "Have you ever had sex with a man?" If they weren't comfortable to answer those questions, then they weren't interested in honesty and a real relationship. Of course, I didn't ask this on the first date. I only brought out the questions when I knew something was starting. I don't feel remorse anymore for my first divorce. It was a learning situation for me. I knew I made the right decision. Even though I went in to it with every intention of "forever", I went in with blindness and a cult mentality. That does not excuse me. But it is a reality in the world we live in. You can never say anything will last forever because you just don't know what the future holds. I feel that my current hubby and I will be married the rest of our lives. I trust his judgment. He trusts mine. It is not a perfect relationship, but it is ideal for us. There are no guarantees for a "forever" relationship, but you can do your homework before you get in to a relationship. Both my husband and I have experienced divorce. We were both hurt. I think as time goes on after a divorce and you see things from a different perspective, you will get answers to things that bugged you for a long time. Belle, in your situation, there was no remote possibility for a mentally healthy individual able to continue in a relationship with a complete cult-brained person. You went in to it with every right intention. I think God honors that. But I also know He knows the culture we live in and the influences we had (TWI). He knows our hearts when we seek Him. That's what you were doing. Seeking Him instead of some cult-ure. Hardly anybody in TWI went in to a marriage thinking that they would divorce because the other person "copped out". I left my ex for that reason. But I REALLY left him because he was not mentally healthy. He did drugs. That wasn't a good enough reason for twi. When my ex left twi, then it was OK. Marriage is not forever in twi. There are strings attached. You just don't know it until you are already in the thick of it and realize that your beliefs are in question. We certainly didn't think that we would ever question our beliefs before going in to the marriage. We had everything we needed for a successful marriage....yeah right. God knew it from the start. Forever was doomed in that scenario. Unalterable Commitment: that just isn't a reality in life. Especially the way it is held above your head to make you obey that commitment and then demand obedience like a nazi. I would run far and fast if someone did that to me.

Darn, it looks like I missed a lot here! Belle, maybe you can fill me in on a PM or email.

I think Krisylis brings up great points. Think about what a day or a week would be like with them, and ask him to do the same. Then talk about it to see if you both have the same expectations. If not, then discuss the differences BEFORE you move in together or get married. This will get rid of most of the surprises. Expectations can be a snafu on a relationship when the other person doesn't know what your expectations are. My best friend moved her boyfriend in. They didn't talk things over. The things that were issues before they lived together became larger issues. Now they are going to counseling. It's a real mess for them. Just be sure you are both on the same page before you make any big jumps. Best wishes. Love, Wayfer NOT!

Oldies, Boy, did you change! It looks like you got a lot of sun this weekend. Did you go on vacation? :) I would be interested in seeing that pdf format of the letter. Please email it to wayferlookin@yahoo.com. Thanks, Wayfer NOT!

I was a TC at this time in Texas. I went to the ROA that year very confused. It was like Sunnyfla said, everything was weird and in secrecy. Maybe people didn't want to upset the boat for fear of losing the ministry. Then I went home and a guy in my twig had been "enlightened" by an engaged Corps girls getting ready to go in residence who he was doing the "deed" with. Yes, this girl was engaged to a guy who was already a corps grad. She was going in to become Corps and serve with him, AND she was having a side thing with the guy in my twig. I think she just wanted to be "the one" with the story and blabbed it as much as she could. I think she got special permission to attend Corps Week that week because she finished her apprentice year and was going in rez. I just know I didn't like her actions. This guy in my twig told me more than the BC or LC ever told anyone. The LC was basically non-existent. He was R*bert B*lt. He ended up cutting out shortly after that. Then we got Br*tt L*nn, who I think had a mental problem because he was so fixiated on collecting money from believers to go to South America and "Move the Word". He was one of those guys who were supposed to be dead during Vietnam. He had been cut up and shot up. I think he even had been a mercenary at one time. He was just weird at the last Limb meeting I saw him at. He even announced that he would be collecting money that would not go to HQ. It was very weird to me at the time. It was going to his mission. My 17th corps boyfriend at the time told me he thought it was weird and that he was going to South America to be involved with drug smuggling. I still laugh about that today. I think the LC was involved in helping Ricardo C. Just my IMHO. I still don't know for sure. He wasn't the LC shortly after all of this. Anyway, we got nothing from the Limb, but the BCs said that if we received letteres from Ralph D, John L, or anyone else that we were not to read them because they were infused wit lies and that the devil spirits could affect us. I REALLY wanted to read one of those letters!! But I was scared as Hell of getting possessed. The BCs lollied back and forth in their commitment to HQ. By the tiime I left Texas in 1988, they were not supporting HQ. Then I moved to Oregon (my home state), and I got a call from Mr. BC (in Texas) that they had gone to HQ and now they believed Craig was the Man of God. I was saying in my head "Whatever!!" I didn't know what I thought. I was even dating a 17th Corps guy at the time, and he was tight lipped. It was all very confusing. I think that where you were and what you thought was easily influenced by people you were around or trusted. I was tossed to and fro during that time. When I left moved back to Oregon, I decided to take a break from twi. But the home town I lived in was scarce in work, so I moved to a larger city. I was bored and so I contacted wayfer and got back in to it all. This time, they were very supportive of Craig. I questioned everything. I was "marked". When Craig declared support or get out, I refused to do either. I just wanted to hang out, but the Craig supporters basically ousted me. My WC roommate said I had to move. I emphatically said "NO!" I stayed for 3 more months until I got married. It was a weird time. The same WC roommate told me to stop having sex with my fiance in our house. Yet she was going over to another guy's house to bang him. WTF??? This guy was using her. She thought there was a relationship. Turns out later this guy leaves when Craig has his gay bashing time. This guy had gay tendencies, and he split when that crappola hit the fan. He was actually a pretty nice guy, just a little confused. I'm sure twi didn't help him. He probably spent years in turmoil about his sexual orientation. Anyway, I had gotten married and my husband and I decided we would hang out with whomever wanted to hang out with us. There were a few who still supported Craig who would still talk to us. Then we hung out with the weirdo ex-LC (M*chael Strah*l). He was insane IMHO. I couldn't belive he was ever leadership. He had an affair going with a girl WHO LIVED IN HIS HOUSE. Right under his wife's nose. It is so sad. We moved on to Northern California and the people my ex-husband knew were all Geer supporters. That all lasted about 6 months for me. I hated the inconsistency I saw in their fellowships and how TCs collected money which appeared to be for themselves. I talked my ex in to moving back to Oregon and going back to the "real" twi. Boy, talk about confusion. That's what the time after POP was like for me.

You are silly WD! I like to seeing it on the front of the boards to see who is around.

I think the thing that rings prevalant in my mind about all of this is that these men knew that women thought they would never have an evil intent in their mind because it was all about God and the Bible. God and the Bible was a disguise so they could do all they did. I think about Catcup's and my own incident. It could all appear harmless, but it was really a sign to more that was going on. I know at the time, I didn't dare think evil about HA because he had spent so much time with VP. It is amazing to me that I would let my guard down about such incidents. Surely had it been someone else, I would have told them off. It's almost like my guard was down because of WHO he was. I'm sure this happened a lot. Another funny thing is when I saw HA at the first Advanced Class Special after I had spent 5 years at HQ. I saw him and wanted to introduce him to my boyfriend at the time. When he first saw me, he said "You are looking good darlin'!" It felt weird to me. He was real touchy-feeling in his hug until I told him I wanted to introduce him to my boyfriend. He backed wayyyy off then. The sadder thing to remind myself of is that my incidents are nill compared to a lot of things that were going on. But why in the H didn't I see it as a bigger problem back then?

Atkins is hard for some people to do. Hubby had lost a lot of weight on it previously, but after we got married, I corrupted him. I hated to see him eat soooo much bacon! It can't be healthy. These days it is hard for him to do because I won't do Atkins and he gets tempted by the carbs I eat. We were doing the South Beach diet for a few months before we went on vacation. I was doing well, but he was not. He was missing eating the way he wanted. For him SBD is restrictive because you can't eat high fat items. It's a combination of good carbs and good proteins. I got to the point that I felt very comfortable on it. I quit having acid reflux while on it too. We just went back to our old ways after vacation. I did try some of SBD frozen meals. They were not good IMHO. I like Lean Cuisines, so I know it's not because it's frozen. There was something to be desired with the one I had. It was a chicken enchilada. However, Kirtie Alley is looking damn good these days. I want to check out Jenny Craig now.

Linda, I loved your avatar and message under it. It is so appropriate for this board. I did wonder where you found the picture. BTW, I am an ebay junkie and dream of ways to be able to make money on ebay. What does a 1940s package of Kool-Aid go for?

Bliss, it only is natural to want to hold it that way IMHO.

Anybody could figure out there was something wrong in Way World. After reading all of this, I can see there were signs, BIG SIGNS in my own mind even though I was never recruited in to any of the horrible stuff. I remember one time approaching Howard Allen at the last Word in Business and making a comment about his red boots. His response to me was "I keep them shiney so I can use them to look up the girl's dresses." I wasn't wearing a dress at the time, but it struck me as really odd. He even demonstrated it even though I wasn't wearing a dress. I thought he was kind of a pervert at the time, but I guess I thought he was harmless. He was probably "fishing" to see what kind of response he would get. It makes me sick. Gawd. It was all in the name of God, and these SICK BASTARD DOGS are doing all of this in front of God. Man, I want to see the day the get repaid for their wrongs.

I used to be an administrative assistant to my Department coordingator who was als on the Trustee Cabinet. With that position came the "privilege" to clean his office. He had quite a few pictures and knick-knacks on his desk. One day I came in on a Monday after I cleaned over the weekend to him being peesed off that I hadn't put things EXACTLY as he had them before. I stopped cleaning weekly, and he never noticed. I might take glass cleaner to the main areas he touched and that was it. I didn't dust the bookshelves for weeks at a time. He never noticed that.....interesting. I remember martinfail saying at lunch that his secretary at the time would never put things back in the exact spot, and he would spend time putting them back. He seemed to laugh about it at the time. He was laughing at his own anal-retentiveness I guess because he said nobody would ever be able to put them back the way he liked them. I'm thinking: What the H are you focusing sooooooo much on how the items are placed. I suppose he didn't have anything else better to do.

I remember M*rk W*ll*ce's house when I lived in Oregon. They had the living room exactly as described with the wingback chairs and an off white floral print sofa with Queen Anne cocktail table and end tables. There were lots of nice white lace doilies too. I prefer the Zen look. I have Asian style wall hangings. Wood and wrought iron in Japanese characters which represent "Peace" "Health" and "Prosperity". I also have a Van Gogh print. That guy was possessed you know! He cut off his own ear! But I like his style. I haven't seen any debil spurts hanging out at my house. I have pictures of my family on a table in my living room also. I love seeing them. It comforts my heart and helps me to remember to pray for them. I never prayed for them while in twi because I was too busy and lived so far away.

When I first started posting on GSC while i was still in twi, I was wayferlookin. That was because I was really looking out from the inside. And I was scared as hell! It took me a few months, an extremely boring Advanced Class Special, and someone from GSC who I knew from way back when enlightened me on some things, and I kicked the twi habit. So now I am not a wayfer, hence Wayfer Not. I love not being a wayfer! My avatar right now is a ballerina character who appears to have not a care in the world. She is a free spirit; I hope to be like her some day. :) My usual avatar is a humming bird because those little creatures amaze me! I had them swarming on my patio when I lived in San Diego. If the nectar wasn't filled up, they were buzzing at the screen door as if they were telling me to hurry up and feed them. Oh, and I love to karaoke. And did I say I prefer Peet's coffee over Starbucks?

I was at HQ at the time. There was no installation or special ceremony of Rosa-lie as the President. The only recognition was when LCM said that she accepted the position of President when he was stepping down. We heard it on the tape he did explaining why he needed to step down from being the President. There was a special ceremony and prophecy and all that crap (yeah, crap!) when she became the Vice President though. FYI: lcm never actually worked in the research department. They gave him that responsibility after he stepped down, but we didn't see him for MONTHS after he resigned. I don't think he worked at all from the time he stepped down to the time he left HQ. We saw him for the first time when he attended a dance for the highschool graduates. It was not comfortable for him to be there; you could see it in his face. I like remembering his discomfort. He deserved every bit of it.

HAPPIEST BIRTHDAY BUD! I hope your day is as special as you are.

I think this deserves mentioning AGAIN. Lord! Our time in twi was about elevating men. When I was a WOW, our 14th Corps family coordinator had a hard time being a leader. He was also the team coordinator of 4 WOW families in our town. He was a good guy, but he was kind of wimpy. The territory coordinator gave him a pep talk, and all of a sudden our WOW family had to stand for him every time he entered a room in our own damn house!!! His ego got stroked big time after he got used to being admired as a leader. He even had the same sexual frailties as he was a popular guy in the Corps and had a fling with my WOW sister. He even tried to start something with me in the guise of a back rub. When he started kissing my neck, I said I had enough and got up and walked out. The fact the vpw encouraged his own elevation is something he will have to answer to God on IMHO. Even Rhoda W used to tell me he loved to be admired and that the hippie expansion of the ministry was a great time for him. Think about it. If you got in to twi before vp died, it was Dr. Wierwille this and Dr. Wierwille that. I heard it so much. People probably even heard it after he died. The big thing for a newbie at the ROA was to meet the one and only DR. WIERWILLE! It was like meeting Jesus Christ himself! How about this? DR. WIERWILLE'S CORPS?? I was given the blessing of my territory coordinator to skip out on my commitment to be part of the 18th corps because he agreed that it was no longer DR. WIERWILLE'S CORPS! This was when Craig was trying to flop his way in the mud hole he and Geer created after POP was read. Anything to be held good or of high honor was because it was sanctioned by DR. WIERWILLE! Tell me the ministry wasn't about him, and I'll say you are delusional.

It would be so easy for vp worshippers to say that he was a man, and he let us down, not God. Of course that is the truth. Then we would be blamed that we elevated vp higher than we should have. From the beginning we got involved in twi, vp was presented as almost infallible, that he and God were tight, that he was an apostle in his own time, that he was equivalent to the apostle Paul, and that he showed us the love of God like nobody else did. If we bought that hook, line, and sinker, it was a piece of cake from there to sucker us in to the rest of the BS. We were all vulnerable. Some were hurt and manipulated more than others, and that REALLY SUCKS!! I wish it were different. We were scammed! We were used! We cannot let these arseholes who protect vp's "integrity" (if that's what you want to call it) convince us that we did everything of our own free will. When someone takes advantage of people in the guise that they are representing God, it is hard to see beyond it when you have been fed the foundation we were. It wasn't the Word. It wasn't God. It wasn't about love, although many of us tried our hardest to manifest that. It was admiration of MEN and protocol to leadership that we were taught. I pray that God reaches in and heals the hurts as only He can. But don't let anyone let you think that the time it takes to heal your heart is too slow. That's between you and Him ONLY. Love you all.

The only suicide I had heard of before going on staff was mentioned by the Right Rev. M*rk W*ll*ce while he was my BC. He told my ex-husband and I that a guy he knew is the Corps went and killed himself because he thought nobody liked him. He used it as a "tool" to help my then husband because he has low self esteem and teetered in his commitment to the cult. My ex's problem wasn't with suicide. He had a drug problem, but the Right Reverend was too dumb to see it. My ex just didn't want to be in twi because he was targeted because of his lack of commitment. The Right Reverend said that had the guy who had commited suicide told someone how he felt, the could have helped him. I think the guy had to have given them some signs before he did it. They were just too stupid to see it. They were too busy being spiritual. You know, we were supposedly taught to discern spirits, why the H didn't anyone discern them to save these people? I don't think people get possessed when they commit suicide. I think they are just sooooooooo down and hopeless that their logic goes away and they just think that ending it all is the easiest way to get away from the pain. It's a damn shame. The Corps program didn't teach people to reach out to others and help them get up, it taught them to condemn.

Dang David! Even when I as in, it used to barf me out when someone said "OH! We have 3 believers! Let's have manifestations!!" Sorry, if I offend anyone, it's just the way I feel about the whole thing. I like the things God tells me without manifestations. :P