Nottawayfer

Here's something from another thread: "Don't underestimate her. There are depths to her only a few know about. She was 1st Family Corps, coordinated PFAL77 with Bob Weingardner, took over Way Pub., then Way Prod., then Geer put her in charge of the entire Auditorium a year or so after Black Wednesday. Much to our dismay, Don WW resigned and placed her as VP, and then she became Pres after Martindale left. She wormed her way using people, friendships, deciept, and micro-management. She knows everything about everyone who worked for her, we would have to fill out and turn in a weekly plan sheet to her, accounting for every hour of the next week, when and what we would study, when we would exercise, when we would eat, what TV we would watch, when we would have 'intimate' time with out spouse. Then the next week, we would have to turn in last week's plan, marked in red anyplace we didn't stick to our plan and the reason that the adversary had talked us out of doing what we had said we were going to do. Perhaps the scariest thing about her is the fact that she can look you in the eye, smile, lie to you, and cut off your balls and stab you in the back all at the same time."

Thre are two other groups on my space also: The Way International and The Way International Biblical Research Ministry

Wow, isn't that the sad, sad truth?

If you really want to know about RFR's character, read Linda Z's posts. She worked under RFR for years at HQ. RFR's character is as a lying, backstabbing, biyatch. I had a few dealings with her myself at HQ. I was there for 5years. She once reamed my arse for accidentally transferring her to the wrong place. I worked for a Cabinet Overseer and she called for him. I accidentally pushed a wrong number and lost the call. She quickly called me back and said "Don't EVER let that happen again!!!" It was a simple mistake which I don't think deserved that kind of response from her. But I don't base my whole opinon of her on that incident. I personally think she is a wolf is sheep's clothing. She doesn't come in to the public to teach or speak very often in public. Why do you think that is? She just isn't the woman that the sheep think she is. If she were to speak, they would realize that. She has the charisma of a soggy spaghetti noodle. She kissed vpw's arse to his face and chided him behind his back. What does that tell you? She had an agenda. She wanted to be high up. She has a great quality to coordinate and get people to do things. That's it. The only time she talked to the staff after lcm got booted was to be sure to tell us that the local newspaper was lying about her. If it were true, why didn't she sue? Isn't that defamation of character? The paper said she knew as early at 1995 about lcm's sexcapades. She was deposed as saying she only knew as early as 1998. Why didn't she sue? Because she knows the truth. The papers didn't lie. Her purpose for telling the staff that the paper lied about her was because she hoped that her word had more pull with us than the papers did. Unfortunately, it probably did for some people.

MDV, I think if you spend more time here (or anywhere) outside twi, you will see that not everyone heals at the same pace. When I came here, I had the attitude of "It's been ___ many years, get over it!!!" But some hurts were just downright evil. Everyone takes a different path. I think God's grace and mercy allows people to learn from situations in their lives and from their mistakes; however long it takes or however it happens whether we agree with it or not. Some need to touch the hot stove MANY times before they realize it hurts. That does not mean it's wrong, it means they learn at a different level than some. It's not a lower level either. It's just "their" level. Some paths may be Christian-based. Some are not. I've since learned tolerance and the ability to see through others' eyes (instead of my own)in situations. Not all embrace the Bible becaue they feel they were led astray when it comes to all they were taught in twi. Some don't have the confidence that the Word gives them all they need in life because it didn't prove to be true based on their experiences in twi. I give that to them even though I still believe in the Bible wholeheartedly. I do believe recovery is the heart intended for GSC participants. Some are just slower at getting there. Some may never get there. There is comfort to speak your mind about things you didn't dare bring up in twi. There are people who understand what you experienced.

That's a HUGE change from when I was there. I left in 2001. But I seriously doubt anyone even even making anywhere near $18 per hour. I have a staff friend coming to visit me in a few months. I'll find out what they make. I would be willing to put a large wager down that they don't make anymore than $10 or $12 an hour.

I watched it for the first time last weekend. I don't get it. But I guess there are people out there who like it. It is a competition. I just don't see the athleticism in it. I know they are gliding a heavy stone and some of the sweepers are moving 500 miles for a few minutes at a time, but is it really a sport?

"Galations 1:12 12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ." Very interesting. I never gave thought to this verse before. He received revelation from Jesus Christ. I wonder how twi wrestled that verse around to make it fit their doctrine.

I think orthotamounta was defined as right cutting. You know, from that verse which taks about rightly dividing the word of truth? OOps, we all posted at the same time. :P

MDV, I tooked at your Southern Oregon album. Great pictures! I love the ones of Hellgate Excursions. I've done that excursion quite a few times. The last time was last Memorial Day weekend. They built a new lodge since the last time I had been there. That is a great time and worth every $ IMHO.

MDV: You'll have to give me a link to the church you attend if they have a website. We will definitely be looking for churches when we get there. My hubby and I will move around Medford. My sister and her hubby will be moving to Grants Pass. They will be looking for a church also when they get there. Does this church have worship service before the teaching? What denomination do they tend to be similar to?

Hey MDV! Welcome back! So am I correct in saying that you left twi? I really liked the pictures on your website, and my last visit there I saw that you moved south. Ironically my hubby and I plan to move to that nick of the woods in the next year or so. I'm glad to hear you're doing well. IMHO the churches I've been to since leaving twi had a lot more information and truth that twi ever gave them credit for. It was a hard pill to swallow at first because I believed nobody but twi had the truth. That turned out to be a lie.

I'm with Excie on the way rewards were shoved down our throat and in our faces when it was time to do some work for some leader. I don't believe it one bit. "Believing Believer"--I haven't heard that term for eons. Only in twitville would they create ;) a word like that. It's runs right along with their "household" BS. If someone is a believer, obviously they believe or the wouldn't be a believer. That way twi's way of putting themselves in a different category than other christians. Excie, you're all good girl! :)

I have definitely seen this in other ex-way ministries, cults, and some christian churches. Usually the christian church situation is because people put the pastor on a pedestal. The church I fell in love with taught this about the pastor: "The church leaders are aware of their own weaknesses and need to grow and are open about their hurt, pain, failings, and humanity. Instead of "having it all together" and being insulated from confrontation and change, they are in a process of healing and opening up to their own safe people for support and accountability." This was NEVER seen in any twig, fellowship, or offshoot I ever attended. It was alway about Dr. Wierwille or whoever else and presenting them in a perfect way.

I would vote that all are equally bad except for Pope Benedict.

It was probably too negative. Wayfers are good at not listening to things that don't agree with their beliefs. In this case, silence isn't golden. It's blind.

How do staffers save $$$ for the future? I don't know. I was never able to do it. When we had to take a 10% cut in pay, it was never returned (at least to me). My meeting with HR and Finance Directors told me that they could not give me my request. I think I requested less than $100 to help myself get back on track. I didn't want to be an exception or get reproved for not being able to live on what they gave me. I felt humiliated, but I told myself God would have to meet my need. When they decided they would no longer pay 100% of our medical, eye, and dental, we never got an increase in our "need basis" to cover the 20% they decided not to pay. They gave a retirement benefit to those who had been on staff for 7 or 8 years. However, nobody was given extra to be able to meet the need for their retirement. I think twi donated some to it, but it surely isn't what most employers do. TWI patted themselves on the back REAL BIG for this one....lordy.

I was on Staff from 1996 to 2001. If someone received an inheritance, they could go without divulging that information to twi and still collect what they always did for their wages. The smart ones do not tell all they know. ;) I knew several who had family that became deceased and never told what they got. One guy I worked with bought a boat and all kinds of things normal staffers were not able to buy. I doubt seriously this guy told of his inheritance. He couldnt' even be honest with the hours he was supposed to be working. From what I understood at the 2002 Advanced Class Special, RFR mentioned that they paid staff "regular" salaries so they could pay rent. More people were allowed to live off grounds. I'm not sure what a "regular" salary is, but surely it is only enought to cover the "need basis" plus rent, electricity/gas, and food at home. It can't be that much extra. When I was on staff, I lived from paycheck to paycheck. I also accumulated about $1,500 of credit card debyt trying to cover the lack of money. It was horrible. I felt like God was going to disown me for it. I lived in fear constantly. If you have a close relationship with your sister, maybe you could talk to her about it. Hopefully she won't feel compelled to abundantly share on the amount she receives.

It is soo important to have friends. Some people did have friends outside twi before they left. I had one. I met her while I was in, and I never witnessed to her. Thank God! She was a wonderful shoulder to lean on and a great friend to lend an ear. She worked at Ethan Allen, so I went to many work parties with her and met other people also. I also made friends at a small group from the church where I attended divorce care. It was refreshing to be around others who loved God without the cult mentality. Had I not gone to church, I would have found a hobby which allowed me to meet others. It is sometimes just too hard to be alone when you first leave.

I was in Texas in the late 80s. What area are you talking about?

I was obsessed with those kinds of things when I first left twi after 20 years in. I used to keep GSC minimized on my computer at work. I admit it kept me from getting work done. But it helped me a lot. It allowed me to be angry and work out my frustrations with people who understood where I had been. People heal at different levels. I think some sort of counseling is great advice. I ended up getting counseling in a divorce care group. Getting out of a cult was similar to getting out of a marriage with the feelings of betrayal, lonliness, and emptiness. I think that helped me to move on quicker than without it. It doesn't happen over night though. Give yourself time to go through all of the emotions that you need to, and don't feel guilty for being emotional. It's human to do when you experience the things we did.

I used to have recurring dreams about my teeth being loose. I heard that meant I felt I had no control over some areas of my life. I also have recurring dreams about being naked in public. It's weird because I know I am naked, and I decide I am going to enter the public place without feeling weird. But once I see the people, I am freaked out and looking for my clothes. I've had dreams about situations that happened to me in twi. But I always end up telling off whoever it is in the dream. I feel satisfied about telling them off. I also have bathroom dreams. There are public restrooms with no walls or dividers. It's a feeling of discomfort I feel in these dreams.

I was married to my first husband in twi, and I had a boyfriend in twi at the time I left. Both relationships and all in between were HELL! Because of twi, I felt compelled to keep my marriage commitment to a drug addict. I found out 3 years in to the marriage about his drug use. I tried to get counseling with leaders, but they never wanted to hear the REAL problems. They only wanted to tell us to read Volume 5 "Heirs Together...". That was crap. I never got to tell them his drug use was killing our marriage. He didn't go to 12 step programs because twi didn't sanction them. It was all a horrible nightmare. I learned from all of that and vowed I would never marry again unless I knew there were no secrets. I remember calling up our twi coordinator when we were having a heated argument. The TC chastised me because I was going over hubby's head. The boyfriend I had when I left was a miserable old bastage. He was so full of hate and judgment. One example was him saying "If we get married and have kids and our daughter gets pregnant, that's it. She'll be out!" I looked at him in dismay as to why he even had thoughts like that for someone who didn't even exist. I told him that I would be there for my kids NO MATTER WHAT!! I told him that included if they decided to be gay democrats. You should have seen the fire in him. hehehehe!!! He was frustrated that I didn't submit to his stupidity. He even had the audacity to tell my sister that I didn't listen to him. My sister and I laugh about it now. I ended that relationship telling him I didn't like his personality because it was offensive and rude and that I had no intention of ever marrying him. Goodbye arsehole. I kept that boyfriend around because he was the only "believer" that came around in my late childbearing years. I thought that God had given me the best available. It was sad. I am sooo glad I woke up. I am glad that marriage #1 was so bad that I refused to do it again. Had I not met my hubby I have now, I would still stay single than be in a terrible marriage. It was all because of twi that we gave in to the BS. Commitment was the major blinder towering over our heads. Commitment HAS to be hand-in-hand with LOVE. True love. Not some twisted image of love that exists in twi. That's why a lot of women in twi put up with what they did. It takes getting out of the cult to see it sometimes. What got us there in the first place? The bullshirt that "any two believers can make a marriage work" was dangled over our heads. I bet most of the marriages or relationships didn't start the way they ended. I still get shocked thinking about how husband #1 changed during our honeymoon. He had me, so he didn't have to try to get me anymore. I was depressed at my honeymoon. It should have been a moment to remember. But it was the strong teaching in COMMITMENT that kept me there. Commitment is admirable, but it is not in an abusive or dysfunctional relationship.

Who is thumbing through the personal columns? Glad you enjoyed your Valentine's Allan. I just wish you could play nicer here. I know you have it in you. ;)

Richard, I agree with what Radar said. Personally, I don't want anything to do with any part of offshoot of The Way. Anyone who feels they need to finish the works of Dr. Wierwille makes me gag. I am sure there are several good people in that group. I sold some of my Way books to a guy who is part of it and was never in The Way. He seemed like a nice guy and seemed really caring. But there are many still in The Way who could fit that description also. I was in The Way for 20 years. I believed all they taught without wavering until the last few years. You are smart to check it out beforehand. If you have a friend involved who witnessed to you, would they still be your friend if you decide the group is not for you? You may ask them that. Also, do you notice if they have an attitude of "Nobody has the truth like we've been taught." That is a sure sign of a cult IMHO. Take care and good luck.