Nottawayfer

Hiway29, Wow! That is so typical of that lunatic. For me, there were several ah-ha! moments, but when I realized that I trusted the teaching of a man who practiced error (who was a serial adulterer at minimum), I reminded myself that practial error always leads to doctrinal error. Something has to be stinking big time, and I've had ammonia up my nose for a long time. I went to my last Advanced Class Special in November 2002. It was the most boring meeting (remember all of the foundational crap rehashed?). I left twi 2 weeks later because I didn't want to lie to God or myself anylonger.

Pumpkin is good with all people. He is a typical alarm dog--barks when they come in the house. But when they get in, he's happy to see them and follows them around. We have new people coming to our house almost nightly since my husband has a recording studio in the back of our house. He wants to follow them so much I have to hold on to him so he doesn't trip them when they are bringing their instruments in. He is crate trained. When we tell him it's time to go to bed, he goes straight to the crate. We don't take him out much because he gets car sick. He has ralphed in my car several times, so we limit his car rides to going to the vet and groomer only. He has epilepsy, and a car ride resulting in vomiting can trigger a seizure. He has bitten me a few times. It has happened when he was laying on my bed and I was scratchign his back and touched the top of his stubby tail. He HATES his tail to be rubbed when he isn't expecting it. If I purposefully rub his tail and tell him it's OK, then he is fine. It's weird. Other than that, he's really lovable. It's like he has a Jakyl and Hyde personality. I think it is a pack issue. I just have to get some dog in our house to establish who is the alpha dog. Do both my husband and I need to establish we are the alpha dogs? I wonder if that will confuse him. Justloafing: I'm not familar with Rescue Remedy. What is it?

I think that would work for humans Garth, but I doubt that would help for a dog. Thanks.

Our cocker spaniel, Pumpkin, is a pretty good natured dog most of the time. However, if we have a dog at our house or if he is at the vet, he challenges and growls and tries to bite the other dogs. I saw him do this to a blind French bulldog (who had no idea what was going on so there was no challenge by the bulldog). I end up holding him back, but he is out of control. He is a rescue dog, and we got him at 5 years old. The lady who fostered him said he lived in a house with 5 other cockers with not political issues. She said he stayed out of the dog politics. He seems to be a completely different dog than what she described. My family brings their dogs with them when they visit. It hasn't been that often lately, but we are trying to figure out a way to calm him down around other dogs in his territory. Yesterday hubby brought a co-worker's dog overnight while they were out of town. It was a hassle to juggle the dogs to keep the visting dog away from our maniac. We love him, but we really dislike his temper toward other animals. We even saw him this way with a baby kitty that was dumped in our yard a few months back. Do you think if we brought a dog around and kept a muzzle on him that it would help him to learn to relax around other dogs? I've had cockers before and never had this problem. Thanks for your input.

I don't think Paw has a different identity.

I think it was the fact that they knew they could trust God, and He was a personal God to them. Our teaching in TWI sorely lacked in the area of recognizing a personal relationship with Him. I only was taught a cold, sterile one-way relationship while I was in TWI. The other reason that I think that those who were mentioned because of their believing was because they learned that their trust in God would yield His will being done, not always what they wanted done or thought should be done. I know in your situation that it is hard because you know that your daughter is better with you, but your trust in God that He will take care of her no matter where she is will be the comfort for you. Let Him take care of her while you can't. In the meantime, you can only trust Him to lead you in the situation. Ask Him to lead you. That was new for me also because in TWI we did what we wanted and then told God to bless it. Edited to clarify a point. Edit made in bold.

Rvrdiver, I am so sorry to hear about this situation. Prayer. That's all I can say. It does work. Example: I was in TWI wholeheartedly for 20 years. I spent 5 years on staff at HQ. I thought I was where God wanted me. I was convinced I would NEVER leave the organization. My sister and my mom prayed for me faithfully FOR TEN YEARS. God finally got through to my heart to help me realize what I was involved with and it took me about 2 years to finally leave after the first prick He gave me in my heart. When people are involved in situations, it's impossible to expect God to control their minds and the situation. Trust Him. Pray a lot. Ask God to give you the words and to direct your paths to see an outcome in the bet interest of your child. I know waiting is hard especially in this kind of situation. But you are at the mercy of the situation. I will prayu with you for your child's heart and protection of her mind and the softness of her heart to Him no matter where she is.

Since leaving twi, I don't believe that my believing can affect anything. I do believe in God's power and that prayer affects the outcome of things because we seek Him, not because we believe. I try not to tell God what to do. I let His will be done. I don't believe devil spirits are hovering around to trip me up because I stand on the Word either. I believe that we go through things some times to make us stronger. Bad and good happen because it just does. I try not to over-analyze things too much anymore.

Wow......now THAT speaks volumes with the teachings of The Way International.

And for the record, I only faked manifestations.....just ask my husband. ;)

I agree. I faked it, but not on purpose. I think it really was a learned behavior. Looking back, it was total crap IMHO. My favorite starting line was "I have called you to this time and this hour to be strong for me......" Sound familiar? Make you wanna puke? I do.....excuse me now.

The guy from Texas....could it have been Br*tt Lynne (sp?)? He was an ordained guy in Texas in the late 80s for awhile. He had been in the Vietnam war and had supposedly been a mercenary. His story was that he was stabbed several times and should have been dead.

Yahoo people search has one Todd Cencich in the whole country. Todd Cencich

We used to feed our Lab gravy train. When he started having atrocious breath, I contacted our dear Dot Matrix who told me about human grade dog food, Canidae. We've fed our dogs that ever since. Hershey loved the Canidae snap biscuits. He drooled every time we brought the bag out. Our cocker spaniel likes the wet food mixed with dry, and he loves snap biscuits as well. The dry costs about $19.99 for 20 pounds and $27 for 40 pounds. I'm with you about carrying a huge bag of food in the house (and storing it also). The wet food costs about $1.29 per can.

I found this when I did search for Chris Geer on Google. Once you click on the link, you have to do a search in the document for Chris Geer because there are several things listed besides CG. Here's the link: Chris Geer Link

Here's something I found on the internet regarding Geer. I hadn't seen this previously. Maybe it's a new tidbit to some of you. 6 Scotland: "The Way International" Denounced. Thousands of followers of the controversial Way International have been called by leaders of a breakaway section of the group to a Christmas convention at Gartmore House, in Scotland's Trossachs region. The convocation is a bid to establish the Rev. Chris Geer as head of The Way, which is based in the U.S. Gear claims that The Way's founder, the late Victor Paul Wierwille, appointed him to carry on the group's work. Geer appears to have taken over Gartmore House, purchased by The Way In Great Britain Ltd. five years ago for œ 238,000. Rigid Controls Former fifteen-year Way member Chris Leggett, who says the group "took my freedom, my life, my mind, and my independence," warned Scots: "What they did to me they could be doing now in Gartmore House. You'd better believe it before it's too late." Speaking from Virginia, where he is undergoing a course of deprogramming, Leggett spoke of mind control techniques and control of the environment used by The Way to recruit and indoctrinate members. Then, he said, "you provide free labor for them, you're kept on campus and not allowed to leave, and made to feel an elitist group against the rest of the world. They indoctrinate you so you're scared to death to leave the group." Speaking hesitantly, still in the midst of deprogramming, he says: "They worked on phobias . . . tell you you'd become possessed with bad spirits or the devil." Although Leggett has his two daughters with him, his wife, with whom he is engaged in a bitter custody dispute, remains in the group. Geer has challenged official Way leader Craig Martindale in a series of stormy meetings at the organization's Ohio headquarters, claiming that evil spirits have invaded the hierarchy. He claims Wierwille, who visited him in Scotland just before he died, gave him his last will and testament as he could trust no one else. Sunday Mail, 9/30/90, 1, 6-7. Former member and Way leader in Ireland Padraig Butterly - who once ran the group's Gartmore House in Scotland - says that followers lived in fear of being possessed by the Devil, that grown men and women were reduced to sobbing in corners, and that leader Chris Geer spoke directly to God and thought he was Moses or an Apostle. The 33-year-old pub owner, who ran Gartmore in 1987, said "The whole thing was a farce," . . . The Way will answer no questions, and they rule by fear and intimidation." Money Butterly quit The Way in March, after 14 years, along with scores of other British followers. He says it was Geer's rule of fear that finally made him see they had been controlled for one result - the mass giving of cash, first to The Way Great Britain Ltd., then direct to Gartmore House. "We are still holding half a million pounds in Ireland," he said, "money given by followers which I won't pass on to The Way." At one point, he added, Irish followers alone were giving œ2,000 a week. But that was "peanuts" compared to what was going to England and to Gartmore House. Butterly said, "One of the many tragedies is that Gartmore House was bought by honestly believing Christians throughout the world and it has been turned into a property of his will." More Stories Butterly's view is supported by ex-member Karl Edwards, 29, who says he gave thousands of pounds to The Way but is now just glad to be out. "To be honest, at times I thought suicide would be a good way out. I watched people being destroyed. All over the main rooms and corridors of Gartmore, Geer set up his cameras linked to his room. He watched and listened to us all the time. He controlled our lives. Now I'm out of bondage after 11 years." Teenager Peter Renton, from Dunbar, said that before he fled to London, "I was brainwashed. It was hypnotic. Like drug addiction I knew it was bad for me but I still had to have more." Only 16 when a workmate introduced him to the group, he remembers his first sermon given by Geer: "I remember him staring at me. It was as though his message was directed at me. It made me feel elated." Every Sunday he went to Gartmore, handing over a total of œ500. "You feel guilty if you don't give anything," he said. Peter finally fled after becoming obsessed by the thought that the Devil would claim him. "Finally I told them I wasn't coming back, but they kept phoning and wouldn't leave me alone. They made me leave Scotland. I had no choice. I was driven from my own country."

That's a damn shame! SHAME ON THEM!! It just goes to show you the hold that the way had on us. SHAME ON THE WAY INTERNATIONAL!!! They should have left people alone dammit! To have the determination to accomplish something for others is selfless and showing God's love. I went to a church which had a kindness day. We passed out soda and water on hot days, went door to door to wash cars, mow lawns, or wash windows. People were floored that we wanted to do it without anything in return and many tried to pay us. They saw we were genuine when we refused their money. Some were still asking "Tell me again; why are you doing this?" I did this shortly after leaving twi. It was a great experience for me.

Georgio, That was really crappy that they did that to you. What a better way to learn to love people and reach hearts than to do something to help the community. TWI was sorely wrong and assanine for their thoughts on that. I did the Bike/Hike several times as a kid. It raised money for muscular dystrophy. It made me feel good to do something which benefitted others. It was a 70 mile ride round trip. I was in 6th and 7th grade when I did it the first few times. I only made it half way on my bike. We took pledges per mile. I also remember going door-to-door to collect money for Jerry Lewis' telethon. I was moved and determined to help those poor kids.

I believe I last heard they were in North Carolina. They had been in Southern California, then Oregon, and then NC.

I babysat this girl and her siblings during Way Disciple Training weekend 8 years or more ago. They were good kids. Their parents were fine people. They are just caught up in "the truth" and the other lies promoted just like we were at one time or another. I'm glad she is able to enjoy things at other places than HQ.

Templelady, The more questions you ask, the more accusations that will fly. It's a vicious circle because any valid questions are never addressed. When you ask for a question, all you get is nonsense. Sometimes you jus have to let those people argue with themselves.

What's behaver? I may not agree with all Templelady believes, but she sure has been more gracious in her BEHAVIOR than some.

You too? I thought it was just me.

That is a pretty racist statment CKM. Are you are saying that all middle eastern people (who are muslim or islamic and who BTW WHO ARE NOT terrorists) are like Osama or Saddam??

They were last I knew. He became ordained and a Trustee cabinet overseer.