Nottawayfer

That's too bad to hear Bliss. I saw her change a lot for the good when she was with K*le. He's is an extremely good guy.

It's not a huge story because she would talk freely and I was uncomfortable because it was considered negative. I used to each lunch out with Rhoda on a lot of Sundays. She used to tell me things from the past that used to tick her off. At the time, I would NEVER repeat the things she said because it made me uncomfortable. She said VPW used to practice his teachings in the woods and that he always wanted to have a large ministry. She said he used to tick her off a lot. And she would especially get mad at VPW and Harry about finances. She said she used to be afraid of their business practices because of the quesionable leagality of them and expressed her frustration at them. But they didn't listen to her. I was afraid to ask more details as a good little wayfer back then. I just let her talk. I nevrr intended to tell anyone. But now that I'm out, I wished I would have asked more questions. It's been a while, so I will have to think back to see if I remember more specifics. When I do, I will let you guys know. She express that she saw egotism in his teaching and in his desire to have a large ministry. Remember, she started at the evangelical church as his secretary. I wish I would have asked her why she stayed around. She only indicated she was impressed by his teaching. I know someone esle shared awhile back that it was common knowledge that she was sleeping with him. I will try to find that thread.

I'm from the Amen crowd! I believe VPW knew he was starting a scam. He loved being the MOG. Rhoda told me so.BTW, Welcome Watrix. I'm glad you could join us.Hope you like a good cappucino. As the self-appointed head waitress, I have to make sure your first cup at the cafe is good!

I know a lady who had one eye done for far away and one for close up. I hear it works better on women. Most men can't adjust that well. I am starting to have the 40-something issues with close up stuff....sigh. I'm trying to figure out what I want to do. I've worn contacts for 20 years for distance. Now what to do about close up stuff. That's my only complaint about birthdays.

I worked with her at HQ. She has her then husband left HQ in 1999 and moved to Cincinnatti. Last I heard they divorced and she is out. BTW, that avatar is hellishly scarey!!!

Do you mean they went from HQ to Gunnison? I'm not sure where they would rappel in Ohio. But I could be wrong.

Excie, WHY don't you give an explanation??? HUH??

JJ, I've been in your shoes. Then I did a 180. I decided I would not take any crap off ANYONE!! I spoke my mind, and that got me a reputation at work for being the "beyotch". Now I am trying to find the balance.

Yes, I used Jeffrey Dahmer as an example, not literal. But I would still ask Oldiesman or johniam if Jeffrey Dahmer had taught the Word like nobody had and started a successful ministery, would they still follow his teachings because the Word is still the Word? Wouldn't they be inclined to think that there was something awry with the doctrine BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS????

Well sometimes conversations start on one topic and go to another. Sorry to disappoint you. One idea begets another idea, and pretty soon the whole conversation changed!

It seems like VPW's life is being equated with the truth by some. And it seems that some think bringing up his wrongs is equated with trying to nullify the truth.

Evil is evil. It doesn't matter who did it how how bad they did it. VPW deceived people. I know there was/are a lot of good people with great hearts for God no matter what TWI did/does. That doesn't deflate the issues TWI had/has. If you didn't put him on a pedestal, then you are smarter than I was. Good for you. It took me awhile to learn. What if you were able to go back to the good ole days where God's Word abides and the TRUTH is known like is never has been, but are older now with kids, maybe a pretty daughter. How would you feel if some "minister" poked her and told her she what she was doing was godly because she was "helping" the man of God? Would you still be support that ministry?

I learned how to floss in grade school. No offense meant to anyone, but why did they have to teach the Corps to floss their teeth? Did they have some enlightened way to do it??

I guess when it comes down to it, Oldies would revere Jeffrey Dahmer, Adolph Hitler, or Sadaam Hussein if they taught the truth. The rest of what they did doesn't matter if they taught the truth.

I believe that not dismissing them is part of the consequences of his sin. He put himself on a platform, and he wanted to be Dr. Wierwille, the man with the TRUTH. His sins have a long lasting effect on more than himself or even his family. It affected THOUSANDS!!! There are people still trying to heal today from the sins that man commited. Dismiss them?? HELL NO!!! God ALWAYS has mercy, people don't. VPW knew that as well. Plain and simple: VPW lived a double life. He lived in a facade.

Why not? His sins are some of the reason that TWI is considered a cult. Gratuitous sex is cultish. "We are the only ones with the truth" type attitudes are cultish. That attitude alone put a lot of people in bondage. They were afraid to leave THE TRUTH. I'm sure there are many organizations out there with TRUTH. I've seen a few at least. I think magnification of his sins helps some people reconcile the experiences they had in TWI and gives them a clearer picture of why things "just weren't right". I don't belive there is anything wrong with magnifying them. He did what he did in full knowledge. He knew the Bible, and he knew a lot of what he did was WRONG. It was especially wrong when he tried to justify his sins by saying others were possessed.

Oldies, What is your thought on the terrible things VPW did? All of this good you say happened: Do you think we should dismiss it because love covers a multitude of sins? VPW used love as a reason to sin. He will answer for that some day.

I hung around so long because I didn't know what was going on behind the scenes. I didn't know VPW and all of his top dogs were taking women for themselves and calling it godly. Had I known, that would have made a difference in my decision-making. As Catcup said, we were told NOBODY else had the truth. It's hard to leave when you are fed that enough to believing it and are afraid of the consequences of leaving. That's real godly. VPW was a fear motivator. You know damn well he started that crap. It was more subtle in VPW's days. LCM was just a big mouth about it.

WHATEVER!!!

OMG!! :blink: Unfrikkinbelievable! Just when you think you've heard it all. I dated a 17th Corps guy who was on his interim year. We got pretty serious, and I overheard him on the phone with one of his Corps brothers saying "I don't have to marry a Corps girl." We didn't marry, but he did marry someone who never went int the Corps. He was dropped almost immediately after he graduated because he didn't marry Corps. What a waste. He could have been enjoying himself all that time he was in residence.

Was he above renewing his mind? Oh yeah, that's right. The motto of TWI leadership is: Do as I say, not as I do. Lowly wayfers have to eat crow and get face meltings, but leader.... is to be esteemed HIGHLY in every regard no matter how rank their personality is.

What a shame that VPW made some terrible comments about people wanting their families at their wedding. I always thought it was terrible that clergy was treated better than the couple being married. No matter what clergy was the most important person/people at ANY event. I hate that mentality. I'm sorry for those of you who had group weddings and didn't want to. I remember my BF getting married at HQ in 2001. They had a mass reception for all getting married. There were about 7 couples that year. There wasn't anything special about it. It was like eating dinner at an Advanced Class. Sure there were decorations and dancing, but it was all controlled by TWI. And Rosie and her bunch still sat at the head table. I'm so glad I didn't get married at HQ.

Well then you must head my way before I move so we can go to eat at the one here in Kingman. If you like southern style food, then you will LOVE it. My only complaint about them is they make ham gravy instead of sausage. WTF???? Sausage is from GOD!!

That's the way TWI was when I first got involved in 1983. It makes me feel better about getting involved (even though I believe I still would have left if it was still like that). It really did turn in to a mindless cult didn't it? The music now is not inspirational, but you can see those guys were playing with love. I got an email with that link, and I wondered who sent it.