Keith

Dake is and interesting Bible. All of the notes are interesting, but not always helpful or accurate. If the biography I read about him is accurate and if I am remembering it right. Dake did most of his work while in prison on child abuse charges. It is my understanding that he repented and converted and dedicated his life to God. I found a link that is highly critical of him, you can decide how much salt to take it with. One aspect of this Bible that I have found very helpful is that he was a list maker. He will read through a passage of scripture and list the key points, like " number promises of God in...", or "Seven sins of such and such." http://www.equip.org/free/JAD100.htm or for a more positive look. http://www.dakebible.com/Catalog/DakeBooks...e-biography.htm

Boy, teaching sure must have changes since I left in '76. I knew TWI taught that the present day Jews we not decendants of the OT Jews, but were primarly made of a group of Gentiles that converted in the 2nd or 3rd Century. But I never ever heard them teach that the events of the Holocost were a lie. How sad, and disrespectful towards all those that suffered and died, and lost family during those horrible times.

Most of the literals according to usage that I have from VPW were different than the Amplified Bible. I never saw these a literally "The God Breathed Word." I have shared some of them that I have found helpful with some of my minister friends and they have liked them very much.

I meet people from CFF quite a bit, but not from CES. I run in to a few, and some have e-mailed me. I welcome the chance to talk with anyone.

Never was in the Corps. In fact, never had the advanced class. I left the ministry the first time in 1977. Actually ran from God. TWI had hurt me pretty bad, (at least by 1977 standards.) My now wife, was Church of Christ, when we met, she would wouldn't let me keep running. I still held a lot of my TWI belieif. over our dating time in late 80's she came over to my views, for the most part. We were even pulled in by her church elders to be talk with. Not knowing any place else to go, I went back to TWI and was so disgusted by what I saw, I begain looking for those who had left. I got most of my current understanding by working the bible for myself, not even using the TWI books, except for the Bullinger ones, and listening to Kenneth Copeland and Kenneth Hagin. To this day, I really don't understand how I ended up in a leadership position with a bunch of ex-wayfer. I do thank God for one aspect of it though. I am glad that I left the first time in 1977. I have a feeling that if I had stayed, I would have be one of those who are still there. I really think God protected me there.

At the time I'm not sure that they would have concidered themselves geerites, I certainly would not concider myself a geerite. But no, I wasn't really surprised at the reaction, just disheartened. Many of them are now taking a hard look at what they've been taught and begining to come around. It's been a long hard battle. As for the group I currently oversee, while we have some association with Geer, we also have some association with CFF, and I think most of us now have more in common with Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin and Joyce Meyer (who we also partner with) than we do with our TWI roots.

I had a teaching where it was shown via the mathmatical principle things equal to the same thing are equal to each other, that the word of God is the will of God. I don't rememeber the exact verses used right now. Personally, I believe that the Word of God is the Will of God. This statement makes total sense to me. As my word, (as logos) is defined by Greek dictionaries) would also be my will. The question that really needs to be asked is... what is the word of God? In a thread that was moved to the Doctrine, section, we talked about the history of our current bible. Is it really the word, is there more to it than what we accept as the bible, should some of what we have not be included and so forth.

I can't say that people have given me a hard time when I differed with what VPW taught. But I remember early on after I left TWI and linked up with a "splinter group." of which I later became leader, I received a lot flack when I told people at that at fellowship, and especially during teachings I didn't want to hear VPWs name used, in a "Doctor once said...." type of way. I told them New people wouldn't know who he was, so it wouldn't carry any weight with them, and I want to see it from the word, never use VPW's statments to prove your teaching, prove it from the word. Its amazing how many people were upset by that.

Almost any good bookstore should have copies of these. The book I have is called "The Other Bible." but I bought it used and it may not be in print anymore. I also used to have in a book called "Lost Books of the Bible." Some of them are obvious, and as you read them you'll wonder why anyone would think they might have been God inspired. But they they are all, for the most part, interesting reading.

Must have watched "Banned from the Bible." I still concider the books that we have as the Word of God, but if we are honest with ourselves, we know that there have to be other Pauline Epistles that we don't have. Paul appears to quote from OT books which are not included in our Bible. To me, it is less of a question about the books we have, but which are the others that we should have? Some are known to be outright fakes, but others people are not sure of. The gospel of Mary refered to in the show caught my attention, and I'm going to have to see if I have a copy of it. I've read the first part of the Gospel of Nickademous regarding the trial of Jesus, and found it quite interesting. I'm not sure I would add it the bible, but I'm not sure that I would discount it either. I haven't read the rest of the Gospel yet.

While I don't concider myself a follower of CG, I am on his mailing list and he is indeed in the US. I think he is still in Main, but I would have to check the return address on the last thing I received to be sure.

I've mentioned this story in other threads, but I have one piece of advice that VPW gave I have always followed, and it regards this subject and I really believe that he said this in ernest to me. As stated above, he once told me, "Don't ever take anyones word for what the word of God says." Then after a pause, where he lock eyes with me and made sure he had my complete attention, he added placing emphisis on each word, "not even mine." This is my fondest memory of him. and since that time I have followed that advice, which is one reason I am not longer with TWI.

LG, I hate to say this, but in most cases, revelation is not likely to be documented. Even the records in the Bible are recorded after the fact, or when they did try an warn people they were often written off as kooks. It wouldn't surprise me if something like that might have happened on 9/11. Shoot! even though I believe in revelation, if I worked at a boarding gate and someone had said they had heard from God and this plane should be stopped from flying, I would likely think the person some kind of a nut. (I have heard of a case where this reportedly happened and the person was written off as a kook...That is until the landing failed on at take off and the plane wrecked. No one was killed, but several were injured.) Since you did disclose that you don't believe in a personal God I can see why you would want this kind of proof, but you're not likely to find it.

Someone mentioned revelation about 9/11. I can't speak for the TWI and its leaders, but there are many accounts regarding people who worked at the towers and felt uneasy about going to work that day and didn't. Others who have said that God told them not to go to work because there was danger. Regarding Katrina - God expects us to use common sense and people were told to leave and many choose not to and reaped the result, or reaped the result of others inaction. And as Templelady said - Sometimes we just don't pay attetion.

I have to admit that I find it hard to top Goodseed’s first two albums and the secular one. They have an energy and enjoyment to them that seems lacking a great deal of the old way productions that came after. In addition, most of their music praise God or thanked God, while the later music seem to focus on how great we were in following the word. Selah and others kept the focus on God. That changed as time went on. That isn’t to say the problem wasn’t there earlier. The “we are it” attitude first shows up that I know of in the song OHIO on the Miles of Smiles albums. As far as which I like better, contemporary Christian or the old Way Productions stuff? I would have to say that the production values are higher on the Contemporary Christian music today, but as to words, I have to pick and choose in both, They all have their problems.

I always remember that singing should be worship and worship should come from the heart, and it should be fun and not boring. I like the call and response stuff. But I like to do other things. Anyone ever sang Amazing Grace to the the tune of House of the Rising Sun. It sounds awsome. You can sing it to the tune of Gilligan's Island too, but it's a little distrating.

Sorry for the double post, but I thought I should mention that none of these healings happened while I was in TWI and most of what I learned about healing, I learned elsewhere.

I can attest to one in my life. But I would not be surprised if no one believed it since I was alone at the time and "ministered" to myself. I fell down a small flight of stairs behind myhouse and broke my left leg. I knew it was broken because I could see the bone sticking out through the skin. The pain had overloaded my nerves so the pain did not seem as great as it could have been. I commanded it healed and watched the bone slide back under the skin and the puncture heal. I have also ministered to my wife for back pain and she has been immediately healed. She has also done the same for me. My son always come to me to healed of headachs, he says they leave as soon I finish. On the other hand - I've never seen a healing of the common cold.

I know a lot of Unitarians and for the most part they are very nice. Church for them seems to be more of a social event. In 1970-71 I was part of a youth group called LRY (libral Religious Youth) sponcered by the local Unitarian Church. Any and all religions were welcome and Atheism was a religion as far as they were concerned. Of course you post is a little confusing, since the orginal usage of Unitarianism refered to a church that did not believe that Jesus Christ was God, but that he was the son of God. TWI is by that definition a Unitarian Church.

Again personal Opinion here. It says that Eve was deceived. Adam was not deceived. He walk into it with his eyes wide open. He knew what he was doing. Eve did not. That would make the sin Adam’s and not Eve’s.

First I will say that this is my opinon after working the word on what the orginal sin was. Second I'm going to state it in a nut shell, because I'm writing during a short break at work, without a whole of of scripture to back up it. But I do believe that it is there. I also freely admit that this is my thinking and it very well could be wrong. God said don't. Adam and Eve Did. That's the basics. Since Jeremiah 10:23 says - "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. " and prior to the fall we did not know good and evil. I believe the evidence is that man was not to make his own moral judgments regarding right and wrong. We were to let God decide what was right and wrong. The actual sin I believe was that man decided that something God said was wrong was right. The Tree is refered to in Genesis as the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. When they begain to decide this for themselves man sinned and tried to make these judgments with a brain that I don't really believe was made to make this type of moral judgment. If this is correct it is interesting to note that the first person raised after man begain deciding right and wrong was murderer.

While this book will generate a lot of contraversy among the Christian's on this site. I ordered my copy on Amazon Today.

I have to admit I have sort a a twisted outlook when it comes to Christmas Songs. "Grandma Got Run Over by A reindeer" "Chipmunks Roastin on an Open Fire" (Bob Rivers) "There's another Santa Claus" - Bob Rivers In fact most of the Bob Rivers Collection. And "Twelve Days of Christmas" as performed by Allen Sherman of "Hello Mudda, Hello Fadda" fame. If you go un-twisted - then it's "Frosty the Snowman", "Rudolph" and my all time favorite "White Christmas" Near Hits "Jingle Bell Rock" "Little Drummer Boy". I think TWI sort of ruined the religious ones for me. But if they're sung well and have good harmonies I enjoy listening to them.

In I Cor 9 Paul implies that he has a right to expect support but chooses not to. He also implies that those who teach should share in the physical as they share the spiritual. Paul compares this with the OT priest living off of the sacrifices and what is brought to the temple. So I don't see a problem with local ministers earning a living as long as they are working and teaching the locals. As far as tithing, I don't see it in the NT. Just free will giving. And from what I can see it doesn't say to whome to give, just give and give because you want to. Still tithing is not taught in the NT, only free will giving and for the most part

I haven't read all of the posts, but what I've read sounds interesting. #1 Yes, but I feel that the reason why it isn't clearly laid out is because God didn't think it was that important. What he wanted you to know is that Jesus was crucified and why. #2. I could go either way on this, I've not worked it my self enough to know for sure, but the point I made above reamins. I don't think the number is as important as the fact Peter did deny Jesus and in the Peter recovered from it to become a great man of God. #3 Don't know, But if he can, then he can stop people from being born again if they want to, God is bigger than that. #4 I believe a Christian can be possessed, but not taken over. The holy spirit in a Christian is always more powerful than a devil spirit.