Keith

I have to admit I find some of the posts regarding the WOW Aud. interesting. As mentioned I wasn't in when it was built, but it seems that the focus of the ministry was firmly focused on TWI and not on God or Christ at this point. Actual songs about the Aud. Wow! (no pun intended) talk about a misplace focus. I don't know of anyplace were we are told to sing praises to a ministry or even worse its buildings. It sounds like TWI was really pushing people away from God and making God over in the image of men. I heard an interesting teaching on Romans one talking about the downward spiral of what man made Gods. It was always a downward spiral. First they made him look like them, then birds and animals, then creeping things. Almost sounds like they were putting the Aud. up there, when puts it lower than creeping things as it isn't even alive.

I wasn't in TWI when the Auditorium was built. I left in 76 and came back for a very short while around '89. I won't go into the reasons returning, except that I was again studying the bible and didn't know where else to go. I still remember pulling into the parking lot and the first time I saw the Auditorium rather than the old BRC. I literally saw an image of a tree dying from the roots up when I looked at the Auditorium. Going in was worse. I had arrived early and sat in the front row. Still dressed in the type of clothes I would have worn in the '70's Bluejeans and a fairly nice shirt. I was really bugged by the number of people in suits a formals. Then as I looked at the walls I kept "seeing" plaster fall off in places and worms and maggots crawling in the walls. Not to mention how cold everyone was towards me, but it may have been because of the bluejeans. I know some of you no longer believe in this type of revelation, but honestly, I believe that God was telling me to get the H out of there. I've learned a lot since I left the second time and I'm very glad I didn't stick around long.

I can't say I was concerned about my tithe. But after 13 years away from TWI, when I became involved with a church I began tithing again. I love to tithe and have never regretted it. But if I feel that God is directing me to give somewhere else other than the church I attend I don't think twice about doing so.

Since my quote was used in the OP. I guess I should speak up a little. I was one of those who did a lot of checking and rechecking of what I learned in the class. However, since my reference sources were the ones recommended and I didn't have much experience I came up with mostly the same ideas. The only thing I found different was that Bullinger switched the meanings of Decomai (it's been to long, I don't remember how to spell it) and Lambano. But even the publisher thought he had reversed these and my own work seemed to support it. Even with all of that I left in late '76 after taking the class in late '73. I came back for a little while in 1990 and left real fast, because it literally smelled. I sometimes did question what was taught in the 70's, and I was never given a hard time about it. What I saw when I came back was just the opposite. I'm sure there were always people who were hard nosed that if Dr. said it, it had to be true, but I think there was less of that when I first started, by '76 I was beginning to see it happen quite a bit and it seemed to be supported by HQ. When I came back in 90's it was obvious that whatever came out of HQ was truth no matter what. Which might have been the reason they weren't happy to see me, since my first act was to write a letter asking how they could teach Athletes of the spirit in Ephesians. It didn't make any sense to me. (still doesn't). I can't speak to what the original intent was, but I think the it slowly got worse as time went on and the number of people increased.

I really only had one personal experience with him and it was very positive and he gave me advice regarding my study of the bible that I found very helpful and I have applied consistently, both while I was in and after I left. It was 1976 and he told me. "Don't ever take anyone's word for what the Word of God says." Then after a long pause he added. "not even mine."

If you heard something different from God than those around you, you were likely the person really hearing from God. God's voice is not always audible. Most of the time it is just a gentle leading and peace about one decision over another. My personal experience has often been that when I hear a voice I'm about to be reproved or I'm doing about to do something really, really dumb. The best way I've describe the still small voice is that it sort of seems like my own thinking but it seems to come from a slightly different direction than my own thinking.

"This maybe just a "quirk of the day" kind of thought for me..... But I am wondering how many people might actually hear from God someday something like....."I did not tell you THAT!" I couldn't find the OP for this, at least not on this page to respond. But Yes, I have heard God tell me something like that. I've also heard via manifestations one that opened up with "When are you going to stop playing around and actually do what I told you." I've had a lot of times recently when what God told me was more along these lines. He's always told me he loves me as well, but I often get reproof as much as I get anything else.

Didn't vote because it didn't give me the option of choosing more than one reason. I left once in in the late 70's and came back in the early 90's and left very, very quickly.

Yes, he does in many different ways. I'm sorry to say, many times I haven't obeyed him.

I know that Christian Family Fellowship is now teaching that he is quoting from Psalms.

I should point out that the teaching from the early 70's when I was in, were not as weird as what was taught later. One of the problems with teaching about Devil Spirits is that people start seeing them everywhere and a lot of what people call devil spirits are illnesses or people making dumb stupid decisions.

I have a set of the interlinears and use them. They really are quite good. I'm surprised no one noticed that the translations in them often conflicted with what was taught that the Hebrew said in classes and Sunday teachings.

It was Watchman Nee, (may be spelled Knee), before TWI and it was very, very successfull. However the amount of control Watchman imposed on his groups was much less the TWI imposed and as I remember reading about it, the cells were pretty much stand alone. One reason why Nee set up his system this way is that it was needed in Korea. Churches were frowned upon at the time. I've read quite a bit by Watchman Nee and while I disagree with some of what he writes; I do have quite a bit of respect for him.

They may not be posting those titles, but they are still there. Every board is required to have them. In regards to the dancing, I noticed that the a lot of the moves look like show choir moves, which work great with a large group of dancers where no one person is trying to command attention, but if just a few people are performing - look terrible.

Tzaia - I may have met your husband, but I really didn't last long after I came back to Bloomington. I opened up my home for a fellowship to meet there, run by someone else and they kept calling everyone in the fellowship up telling them they were meeting at such and such a place to witness. Only for some reason they only let me know part of the time, so there I was waiting for someone to show up. Really the ministry left me rather than me leaving the ministry. I really hadn't heard any teaching that would alow the type of abuse that Kris when through. But I had heard of a lot of "believers" doing sexual things that seemed to be the opposite of what I thought I was being taught. I was too bothered by the idea of pre-marital sex, but I was bothered by pre-merital sex with someone you were not engaged to. I also knew a WOW who kept a sting of un-believing boys for fun during her off time.

I know it wasn't me. I left TWI then, but I didn't leave Bloomington. I was born here, and and except for college, and WOW, have been here since 1955 when I was born. I'm thankful that most people did thing I belittling Kristen. It was a good book and would be useful for anyone who has gone through any kind of religious abuse.

I haven’t read every post in this thread so forgive me if I repeat some things that have already been said. I just finished “Losing the Way” and found it well written and it definitely of interest. My biggest problem while reading it was trying to identify some of the people who she talked about. But I left early, she would have just come to Bloomington, IN as I was leaving the ministry and the fellowships there. So there were a lot of people I wouldn’t have known. So much for my discussion of the writing of the book. As to her experiences, I really do stand amazed at what was going on that I didn’t know about. I am really very sorry that she had to go through any of this. No one should be treated like a thing. I hope I don’t sound like I’m belittling her with this next statement, because I don’t mean to. I’ve learn a lot about hearing from God since I left TWI and find that He works much more in our hearts than anywhere else. As I read through her accounts I found a great many places that I believe God was working in her heart to get her out of there, but because of her teaching and our idolatry of VPW she was talked out of it and even told she was devil possessed. It is so sad to see someone taken advantage of in the name of Christianity. I am so glad she managed to get out. I have a feeling that if I hadn’t left in the mid-seventies, I would still be there.

I think we are looking at two different subjects here. 1. The act of sin. Here every sin has a result both spiritually and physically, some greater, some lesser. In that sense all sin is not equal. 2. The forgiveness of Sin. - As far as God is concerned if you accept Jesus as your Lord and believe God raised him from the dead you are forgiven your sins, no matter how big or small. If you confess you sin God is faithful and just to forgive your sin and cleanse you of all unrightousness, no matter how big or small. Nowhere does it say you will not have deal with the result of sin forgiven or not, in the physical, though God will help you deal with.

All I know is the the bible says "the goodness of God leads to repentance." most likely paraphased. So I treat them homosexuals, the same way I would want to be treated. Hate never brings a person to God. Nobody should ever be treated with hatefully.

To the original question No I haven't been in a fellowship where someone recognized the language spoken. However do, with out a doubt believe that SIT is real and that I do it. I also believed it can be faked, by someone with the skill to do it, like some of the people on Who's Line, or by possession. I also believe that any believer can do it, if they want. And who's to say that some of these people who fake languages so well, like Sid Ceaser, didn't at some point become born again because of their relationship with Gentile kids and their teachings when they were young, but stuck with the families beliefs as they grew up. I think you know which you are doing. I would have to agree that most people used catch phrases to get themselves started in interpretations, or made them up all together. I have noticed that in most cases those using tongues, interpretation and prophecy as we learned to use them have a very dull sameness them. Imagine my surprise however one day, when I began to exert an effort to not use these catch phrases in starting my interpretation I hear myself say. “When are you to go stop lying to yourselves and believe my word?” That was an eye opener.

No, I was the only one who woke up that I know of. I just groaned and tried to go back to sleep. He would have had to do some kind of study to put any kind of teaching together. I don't know if he did it consistantly or not as this was the only time I spent with him.

I can only speak to the one night that I rode with him in the coach from billings. I do remember being woken up in the middle of the night and seeing him sitting up with his bible, concordance and a pad of paper. I couldn't promise he was studying, but it sure looked liked like he was to me.

When I first took the class, we wrote our questions down and they were answered at the end of the class. However, they were gathered after each night. This was to supposed to give the people running the class time to look up the answers or if they didn't know the answers find someone who did. Maybe not as quick as I wanted, but they did make an attempt to answer them. I also remember being so excited about what I was learning that I finished all the books the first night. It was the first time anything religious had ever made any kind of sense to me. Of course, I never stopped asking questions either which made me kind of a pain. Left in '77 came back for about 6 months in around '90, still asking questions. W. C. now with CFF, was the only person durring that time that tried to work with me and give me any real answers during that time. Sometimes I wonder if some my questions might have helped him make the decision to leave later. In a recorded class, holding the questions till the end makes some sense to me. If it had been a live class, I would expect that there would be a question and answer session at the end of each night.

I'm not going to agree or disagree with what OK City said he saw, but TWI is not the only group that talks about spiritual sight, or revelation or visions. And I will always remember somthing that happened to me along these lines. I left TWI in about '77 and when I begain looking at the Bible again, around '98, I remembered with fondness TWI, not knowing any of the things that had happened since '77. Not having a phone number or any other means of getting a hold of them I drove with a group of Bible loving friends to Headquaters. I was amazed and appaled at the new Auditorium because it seemed to be the opposite of what I thought they stood for. Then suddenly, before I got out of the car I literally saw a tree that was dying from the roots up. Then when I went inside and sat down in the Auditorium I looked around and "saw" parts of the wall come down like falling plaster and worms crawling through the walls behind. I would say that is a pretty good indication of what I found TWI to be when I begain working with them again for a few months. I didn't stay long, but I wish I had paid attention to what I saw and left immediatly.

I’ve read several articles on this and find myself amused by them. I do work with Kenneth Copeland, and Joyce Meyer Ministries and some others who preach what some call “the prosperity gospel” and I’m always amazed at what some people leave out regarding their teachings. They also don’t teach just “giving and receiving” but that first you seek God and you give, but you seek God and give with no strings attached. If you do either with the idea of receiving your priority is wrong. You are not seeking God, but things through God. Expect to be blessed yes, but don’t seek to be blessed. The crossover point is very fine and easy to overstep and very easy to miss when listening to their teachings. I’ve done it thousands of times. For the record I know that Kenneth Copeland does practice what he preaches. Recently I received a 40 disc set (Yes 40) from them because they wanted me to have it. It was sent free to all of the ministries that worked with him. Jesse Duplantis spent weeks, working and living in Katrina hit New Orleans to help with clean-up even though he could have stayed at his own offices and home both of which survived Katrina unharmed.