Keith

Can't say I have, but then I only really know English. Took on semester of French, flunked out of Spanish and took a year of Latin. I've forgotten almost every word I knew in those languages. I have met people who have said they understood the tongue being spoken, but it wasn't at TWI event.

Music is one of God's greatest gifts to mankind. Play. Play with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength. I don't know what kind of music you are playing, but I get more pleasure and peace listing to Brad Paisley, Eric Clapton, B.B. King, and many others than I do when I listen to Christian music played half heartedly. Play. Play for God if you want. He likes music too. but play. You can bring more deliverance to people playing jazz, blues, pop and country and other music with all your heart thatn you can any other way. The music will heal you too. But play. I've seen to many miserable Christians who called by God to entertain and either gave up their music, or tried to keep it in a small Christian box when God wanted it opened up wide.

I'm not sure how to take some of the comments regarding my post. As I said it was my first thought regarding the post topic. My second statment was meant to point out that if someone is asking you what the word costs you, they are looking at the wrong thing. This way of thinking is an indication of a ministry that is rapidly heading towards ruliing by law and guilt... which is exactly the direction TWI went. Yes, I was a fortunate one. Becoming involved in the ministry saved my life in the 70's, (notice I didn't say the ministry saved it) I was gone after three years. And I'm very thankful for that or I might have ended up a bigger a**h*** than I am now. I can say, when I lost site of the word and made the ministry my god that it cost me my first marriage. But really that was the TWI, which I had let replace the word, it wasn't the word that cost me the marriage. I can also say that TWI encouraged and seduced me into replacing the word and God with their teachings and leadership. That cost me my walk with God for a very long, long time.

The only thing I thought of when I say this topic was..The word didn't cost me anything, but it cost God his son. Honestly if you are looking at your walk with God in terms of cost, you're look at the wrong thing.

Your right, I'm not trying to compare David to TWI, but to show that God put more stock in a persons heart than their being right about everything. Perhaps I should have just used the "as it had not been done since the time of the Judges" example since that related to the topic better than the other examples. If all the law and prophets hang on loving God first with all your heart, soul and strenght and loving your neigbor as yourself. It sees Jesus has already answered that question. Love is the most important. Same seems to be true in I Cor 13. It's nice to know stuff, but without love, it's just stuff.

Just looking at David a man after God's own heart. Had an affair, got her pregnant, killed the husband. Taxed the people against God's will. He wasn't definitly not right. Wasn't loving then either. There are also places after he ruled where it says that something required by the law was done..."as it hadn't been done since the time of the Judges." The time of Judges was prior to David, so David didn't do it. Yet God loved him. So God seems to think the heart is more important than the action. When I did a word study of "logos" I came up with a working definition at least for my own use. Logos = not only the word spoken but the heart and reason behind what was spoken. If you miss the reason and heart, which is love, then it's wrong even if it is right every other way.

If you are going to lead people to God and encourage them with music it has to have heart in it. Not just God's heart, but your heart. What I saw at the end of my 2nd stay with TWI was dead music. It was perfect, every note was right, dynamics were good, mix was good. But there was no energy or heart to the music. It sounded like it was all performed by studio musicians, who hated the music they were playing but needed the money. So they just didn't put any heart to it. I can understand a minister nixing a song for service if he had a specific need for songs about specific subject but otherwise.... Currently I play guitar for our churches praise and worship. I love it. Yes the minister controls it, but then he is also the Rhythm guitarist and his wife plays keyboards, very well I might add.) But he give me a lot of leway in what I try to add. Closing our eys while we play, only becomes hard because I don't know the songs by heart and I'm reading music. Lots of improv regarding what we are doing, I never know if we are going to play the song as rehersed or rearrange the order while playing. When we do, it's almost always awsome.

Let's see. I wrote a letter to Craig saying the last time I went to HQ I though all of the greetings were just words. That the "God bless you's" were just words and no longer carried any real meaning to the people saying them. I added that I felt that Way Productions had become more about the show that about God and that the music and performance needed to live and have energy if it was going to inspire people. I mentioned when I arrived, no one attepted to make me fell welcome. (I heard that he yelled at the Corp and staff about that..Sorry) That each time I came no one ever approached me, but I often approched them. I wrote a letter, saying that the Athelets of the spirit teaching in Ephesians went against everything I learned about bible study in the PFAL and the amount of profanity and bitterness in the service made it difficult to understand or even tell for sure what the teaching was about. No, I wasn't pressured to go into the Corp. In fact the real wonder was that they let me stay around as long as they did. I acctually left before they put any pressure on me to leave.

I like the phrase "not taking care of your sponsor" I wonder what they made of me. I promised to sponsor a couple through the corps, and left TWI, for a second time very shortly afterwards. Because I am a man of my word, I kept my promise even though I had left and did so in a manner that had them using me as an example as some of the limb meetings. Sponsors never tried to reprove me, get me back in, they did continue to take my money. (I don't mean that in a bad way,) There letters were always positive and their relationship with me was always postive. Maybe that's why they left eventually.

To answer the first question. IF there was really a reason the person had to know, then yes God could let someone know that the other was lying. But all to often people think there is a reason they need to know...and there isn't. God loves us and I really do believe that He is much more interested in our heart than the stupid things we do by mistake. Most of the time hen someone says "God will tell me if you lie..." is an effort to control by fear.

After leaving TWI for quite a while I wanted to really understand 2 Timothy 2:15. After working it for several weeks along with the all of the words used. I came up with this basic understand. Rightly dividing the word of truth, mean understanding the God's heart. In other words, it is not important that we know when, and with who Christ died, but why? When we lose the love behind the word of God...we have lost God.

I'm not sure that I really mind the motorcycle. At least it has some real value outside of TWI if sold.

I could get in a big doctornal discussion about believing and have in that area. Basicly, I don't know where they got the phrase "I'm believing for..." To the best of my knowledge it isn't in the Bible. Believe, Trust, Have Faith, yes, but "believe for" no. In addition I don't think you can expect to get results by believing, unless you have a specific promise from God either via revelation or the word. I think I can believe that you will find a job because God wants you to work. But I don't think you can "believe for" a specific job unless God has promised it to you. "Bless you." I have no problem with. I can bless you, God can bless you, your wife can bless you. "Bless you really just means "happy be you." or "be happy." God bless you = God makes you happy, or God will bless you. That's something that God says in the bible. So know problem with either.

In which case,if he chose a leader to bring down TWI,then people should be leaving faster than they are. Why be on a known losing side.

Oh, it's not a rumor at least not one I've heard before, just something I've sometimes wondered about. Much like I wonder about the High priest that gave the death prophecy regarding Jesus. I have some idea's about that, but it would go in doctornal, not here, and I would want to study it out more even there. No matter what the reason for chosing Craig, it was obviously one of the worst choices he could have made for the continuation of the ministry.

I did say it was not a likely answer. But it does seem simular to some of the things that happened in the OT.

Not a likely answer, but maybe it was revelation and the right choice. It might have been the method God used to bring out in the open the corruption that had become TWI and begin bringing it down.

I can't speak to any of these issues in terms of the building. I left TWI long before it was built, and came back briefly and what I saw in the Auditorium was one of the reasons that it was briefly. Some of you may think it crazy, but I had returned to God in the late 80's and not knowing anywhere else to go, went to HQ. As I pulled into the parking lot by the Auditorium I "saw" a tree dying from it's roots. As I sat in the Auditorium looking around, we had come early, I kept "seeing" patches on the wall fall off revealing worms and rot behind it. All of this before the service even started with just a few "good bless you" and "welcomes along with all of the "what are you thinking?" stares. I had last been at HQ in the mid 70's and Jeans, t-shirts and tennis shoes were the uniform of the day. Why would I think it would change? As far as VPW walking the area. I can understand that. I have trouble picturing distances. I can tell some things from a blueprint. Some things from a model; but if I want a clear idea of size I have to walk it so I can see it. That wouldn't seem to strange to me.

Some people are just sick. But there is also no such thing as an anonymous e-mail if you want to track it. There are headers and tracers for every step an e-mail takes on the iternet. I don't know all of the steps needed to find the information, it can be done. Even if they are using an account with a fake name on the account there is information attched that can track the e-mail back to the ip address of the computer used to send it.

I heard that teaching as early as 1973. It didn't make sense to me since people in the bible dreamed. Besides, I like to have dreams, they're fun. Even the nightmares, if you don't freak out they make a good horror story.

I doubt if they would accept this answer but mine would have been. "I didn't let him, Adam did." Because that is really the only place the real blame lies. we might do something once in a while to make it worse, but that is never the point. The point is that we help each other when we fall. Not by putting the blame on them, but helping them, as Christ would have, to rise above the problem. To feed them when they are hungry, clothe them when they are naked. To comfort them when they are sad and on and on. All of us fail. I've had God sometimes tell me where I messed up for information in the future, but I've almost never had someone else tell me where I've messed up and had them been correct about it.

I always read for pleasure. Never gave a thought about not doing so. Even Paul knew the myths and legends of his time.

At first I thought I didn't have a problem with the statement. Then I realized that there isn't really biblical. I would have no problem with the saying "All sickness is the result of Adam's sin." But sickness as death, no; though I will admit it can lead to death in some cases.

You are likely right. Though TWI did appeal to a lot of people who were on the edge, or like me just past it, but hadn't acted yet. I can say that becoming involved in TWI did save my life. However, even then I would have given glory to God, not TWI. So I guess in a way you have on verifiable case. But only God and I really know whether it is true or not. I would say it is. It is so sad that there are people who would have been alive had it not been for TWI. What is worse is the reason that is true.

While ulitmatly it was God that saved my life. I will also have to admit that He did through TWI, I also came and went early on and knew nothing of the indiscressions till I tried to go back around 1990, I found it law bound and non-loving. But at the point I was witnessed to I was depressed and suicidal. The only reason that I hadn't killed myself is that I had heard too many horror stories about people who had tried and failed. I want to make absolutly sure that I would do it right. The people who ran the fellowship I went to were very loving and TWI gave me a reason to live. That reason was God and His Son. I was very sorry to hear what was going on in TWI, but after seeing it again after 13 years in the early 90's I wasn't a surprised by it. There really are people who can say that God through TWI saved their life. I have a feeling that you will find that a great many of those people God led to other groups, like he did me.