sirguessalot

I'm sorry. I mistated my intentions. Actually Mike, its NOT you in the book, its a character study. Its a troll. Lives under a bridge, ya know? Bad table manners. Bad breath. Warts. Eats children. But one that farts angelic music. Thinks his beauty is God's gift to the villagers.

Mike, Re: the pawtucket's principle thingy... Try it yourself. btw - VPW was not the first to learn this from God. But its slick how you seem to credit VP with any smart thing that pops up in conversation. (megaphone) "Sir, please move to the shallow end of the pool before you drown."

Mike, Its the fact that you think you are the only one who presently sees the master better than anyone else. This should be very telling to you. And this is my point. It places you in #4 in that: heirachy of wisdom heirarchy of knowing hierarchy of capability heierachy of blessings hierarchy of present in-your-face here-and-now relevence. IS YOUR MESSAGE REALLY THE MOST RELEVANT MESSAGE ON THE PLANET RIGHT NOW? (message being: come back to PFAL like ME, and see what only I have seen. It is the most pure and profound and healing thing ANYWHERE!) That puts YOU, personally, #4 in the very heirarchy of light and sound, my friend. Until the OLGs join your revival and become fellow #4s. (of course, you'll always be the first to have attain the world's ultimate stage of enlightenment in this generation, yada yada.) Are you now some sort of Buddha then? An awakened one. Soon to be ascended being? (deep, resounding Moses like voice from a UFO or something) "People of earth. Come to me. For I will show you VP. And he will show you Christ, who will show you God." You claim to be the only one who: is even looking at the master can see the master have seen the master will see the master "unless you also look thru VPW who is the only one who saw the master through Christ, but is now dead." --- Mike, How many ways to God are there? One, right? How many ways to Christ are there? Just one? This is a question you can't seem to wrap your mind around. Its not a matter of experience, education, believing, and hound-dogging the sweet scent of truth and love that brings you to God. That's what brings you to Christ. And face it, my friend. We all start the hunt from different places in this world. There are many ways to Chicago if God is not Chicago, but Christ is. Who you kidding? "It's not about me, it's not about me..." It is about you. Its about you claiming to the be THE greatest student of God since VPW, since Paul. And that no living person has seen the master like you have. Or, the only one that remembers seeing the master. Or, the one who sees him better than every-freaking everybody else on the whole friggin world since VPW! Who was the one who saw the master. You, and only you see God thru Christ thru VPW. That is not the only view, just the only goggles yer wearing right now, and you've surgically implanted it on your third eyeball. Let me ask you these: Has God set a limit as to how many ways one can get to Christ? Has God set a limit on how many disfunctional fathers start their disfunctional churchs in this disfunctional world? Is there anything made by God that can't be remade if man undoes it? Mike, You are not ascended. Cuz we can all still see you. ---- But...if you have came here to sacrifice yourself as a fool, so we can all see the craziness of TWI and PFAL and VPW much better, then hats off to you. You have done well. Because, by far, you have helped make this exway trip at the GSC continue to be more rewarding and enlightening and enriching than the first one. But i doubt that this is your intention. Regardless, I am glad to know ya. Even if yer writing reminds me of a crazy little hermit-troll who storms into a village and spouts off wierd riddles, divine secrets, mysteries, and calculations with a strange new jargon, offending just about everyone somehow. Just wake up before you melt-down, my friend. Or before you are completely buried in a pile of rocks. Either way, may i have permission to write you in as that troll in my current fiction project? ;)--> Todd [This message was edited by sirguessalot on June 15, 2003 at 17:51.]

Mike, Heerz the hierchy of your pantheon. God Jesus VPW You us This seems the only the way blessings flow in Mike world. Read em and weep. The more you write, the clearer it becomes to me that your nebuluous world-shaking message is just a rehash of Elihu's "ministry" to Job. The character of your message seems the same. But its empty. And Elihu did not know it either. So he made the ultimate sacrifice of having to be the one who acts like a pr1ck and gives everyone an evaluation and remedy of his own device. Do you understand the book of Job? (I mean, from outside yer canon of anecdotal VPW ponderings) Then you should follow your God-given insincts and bail on this thread before it gets really bad. Go back to your "mountain" and reconsider EVERYTHING about your faith before it puts you on a street corner with a placard on yer back. Smash yer faith to bits, and see what can't be smashed. Boil it to see what can't be boiled. Put the torch to it and give God the smoke. He likes the smell of sacrifice. In fact, I think everyone should do this regularly. Keeps us from getting trapped in mental tombs of our own making. Cold, hard, concrete. What are you afraid of? Losing face? I doubt it. Cept maybe with God. But that shouldn't bother anyone. In a month or so, you'll feel right as rain. Like hurting after losing a girlfriend. You get over it. Life goes on. God'll use the shards to make new pots, yet again. Get used to it. I honestly hope you check out for awhile. For your sake and ours. Your friend, Todd

Thanks Mike. I knew ya wouldn't let me down. The cutting edge of all blessings? Unprecedented in all of human history? And PFAL is the focal point? And you are the sole messenger today? (don't kid yerself - VPW is dead and you ARE the one typing now.) Yep, yer as bonkers as the rest of us. But a bit more sure of your own faith than most of us. Whatta trip. See ya ;)-->

unLOGs! Too funny Thus saith the Lord: "Lighten up. The world does not hinge upon your words and faith...just you." ;)-->

Hello again GSC. Hey hey Mike. Just poppin'in for a quick peek. Mostly sped red yer thred. Just gotta laff (with ya, I hope). Seems as if the very world is at stake here (again/still). Mike, what happens if the OLGs do not heed your call? What will the consequence/s be? For them? For the world? I mean, really...What is the worst that can happen if a bunch of em get together and bury you under a pile o' rocks for your blasphemy? I'm reading you and it seems as if the world/Christianity/PFAL grads are gonna be/stay deep sh!t if you OLGs don't reunite with you and save us. (warning: any answers quoted from a VPW book will be disintigrated.) Ya know, its funny, but at a lot of forums where the bible is discussed, the common theme is "we gotta save the wicked world from their ignorance of the loving truth!" blah blah blah. Everyone seems to want to save the world. Everyone also seems to have a dire warning for those who do not listen to their prescription. AS IF...the words we type here are so paramount. AS IF...our presence on this message board is under some divine spotlight. AS IF...our philosophical musings of who said what and what is REALLY meant even needs to be heard out side of our own bone-box. Ego trips, all of it (and sometimes vacations). HELLO! There are billions of people out there who never have and will never hear what you preach, who are also praying to God for answers and good parking spots. What delusions we suffered while in TWI. Heck, "everyone" was an unwitting pawn of satan and out to get us and stop our message (and our peace of mind). (just shaddup and take a number and get in that long line of paranoid salvation pushers.) But the message is always the same, yet always different on specifics. (And its the specifics are what people are being warned about! sheesh!) Such things have a very broad scope, but a very narrow focus. Burning a TINY hole in cyber space. So, heerz my message of salvation: Jesus came and said: "FAILURE IS AN OPTION! Don't be afraid, and don't join anything orthodox (religion or politics), unless yer just joining for the food, booze and music. No more messiahs need apply - Especially under MY name. The world has already been saved. Just help someone out without throwing in the worldwide superhero society schtick. Keep it local. Become a neighborhood minister. Start a charity or something. Get a hobby. All work and no play makes Johnny a dull boy. Read the bible a few times in yer life. Love is easy. God is smaller than you think. If you fail to master these truths, you will have less and less genuine friends (or some doom or another like that), and you will be lonely yer first few hours in heaven." (how the heck do I make those letters red in HTML?) Ok. Thatz my rant for the day. Sorry it had to happen to you. Carry on. ;)--> Todd

(chuckles) A few home runs? Maybe more like you got beaned by the pitcher and had to walk to first base. (just kidding, it just seemed to match the atmosphere around you)

Someone, hold still... (grunt) Let me put this here ointment on... (kick, crash) It's THE only and only ointment that works for OLG scars... (spit, punch) No, I won't leave until... (thud) ...someone is healed... (@!%#$!) Hold still now... (splat) If you would just let me put this stuff on you... (crack) ...you would not be so upset... (thwap thwap) Truth is, I'm not at all suprised that everyone is throwing things at me. (crunch) That's just always what happens when you try save everyone... (whimper, bonk) :P--> ****** Mike, the routine of your threads crack me up. Its like watching good ole' cartoons. Or reading "Of Mice and Men." You are a trip. Sincerely, Todd

Raf, Stev, allz cool.

Funny thing too...is that it may be that Mike's smug and exaggerated sense of how far they have traveled from the TWI premise about Wierwille and from Wierwille's false teachings that quite effectively elicits this same behaviour in his opponents. wierd. Cynic, you are so negative.

Not sure who "some people" are? ?but I'll bite, since it was right after my post. Raf, Mike is quite a freak too. And I never even knew you had a sense of humor (charlie horse). C'mon. Count the hours you've invested in your "conversations" with Master Mike. Do you really spend that much time conversing with someone you loathe, pity, hate, feel threatened by, or perceive as a threat to those who need protection from him? Sounds like the beginnings of a typical accidental but possibly wonderful friendship to me. Haven't ya ever had an annoying friend who hangs with your crowd that you just wanted to go away? But he won't, and you get used to him? He says and does the oddest things. And he even gets used to being the butt of everyone's jokes. That's his job. In fact, you'd probably miss this guy if he was gone? Then you see him twenty years later and the memories are more fond than ever? Heck, I doubt most friends can even hang in through all the ....ing contests that go on here. You guys fight more like sisters! Talk about a disfunctional families?! (Ya gotta love em anyway, right?) ;)--> btw - which is it? Expressing a sense of humor, standing up for your beliefs, opposing a thesis, holding him to some level of honesty, or engaging Mike in conversation? Oh, I forgot, he is a heretic who promotes idolatry. And what we all post is oh so important. The devil is out there, ya know. And we must defend poor helpless new ex-culties from Mike's hypnotic powers. --> (OK, I'll concede on the hypnotic part) Tell me, who here is "only defending" Mike? Just because someone is not trying to pin him to a wall for his crimes does not automatically make them his defender. I actually think heez a harmless goon with a big heart for people. And though I don?t buy his lines, and I think he's over-the-top, I'd still call him a friend. So, what? You and I have never really got along, but I might still try to call you a friend, but now I'm afraid this would insult you too. Look. Now I am not defending Mike, but defending myself for having been accused of trying to dishonor you AND all those you consider are with you because I am not rallying with you against Mike. So, why are you so insulted? Is it about honor? Etiquette? Some broken rules of engagement? Wanna go outside and duel over it? Water pistols? :D--> tng

In other words: magnetic but mutually abusive relationships expressed largely by banter, insults, cheap shots, charlie-horses, wedgies, and cruel "your mamma jokes." Sounds like the beginning of lifelong friendships to me. I wonder if any of us boneheads even realize it? (oops, did I just say that outloud?) :o--> (I forgot, this is a temple). shhhhhhh

Tis truly a reason to celebrate! (raised goblet) Heerz to Pawtucket and the 7 cyber-dwarves, Or, however many dwarves there really be, May your years ahead be always better than before, Same goes for the tips we never seem to leave. (clinks) Who knows? Maybe these archived conversations, sermons, music and banter will end up in some cult's holy book some day. ;)--> Cheers all, Todd

And it seems yer bleeding pretty bad. But yer used to that, right? :P-->

E, you asked: That?s a big little question we might all want to ask ourselves. I don?t think any of us were in the same exact cult, really. Sooner we get this one, it seems, sooner we all get along better ?round here. Steve, Spare me the double-barrel custom fit lecture with my name on it. Besides, I already have plenty to think about without you giving me a spanking to motivate me. I only posed a tiny paragraph of questions in response to your post. Something for all of US to think about, including me. Honestly, I do not believe in a clean-cut half-and-half universe. But I do believe there are infinite planes of dichotomy within the universe, and none need always be parallel. So please, go back a read a few of my earlier posts on this thread before you spank me again. And, to spare us yet another splattered trajectory in this ten-headed food-fight of a thread, I'd love to philosophize about philosophers philozophizing about philosophers in a private topic sometime. I do not know as much about them as much as I would like to. Goey, Ditto on the private topic food fight peace talks. My comments on the last paragraph of that post may have been asking too much in a public forum. Sorry. Ginger, Thanks for calling it. Yer a champ. Mike, Lets say the ?ten ta fifteen year shelf-life of revelation? theory jives (and it just may, though I?d give it a much wider margin. There are trees, and there are TREES). Will you not apply the same theory to that myriad of people and places and religious movements who have lived and died since the first century? Any non-recorded occurances? What if: God has walked with women and men from all over this dirt ball in various degrees and forms, and the revelation actually does age like wine. At first it?s a grape off the vine, then its nourishing juice, then its medicine for what ails ya with moderation and a prescribed dose, then eventually, everyone get addicted, then tanked and goes streaking together into the wee hours of the morning til you pass out and the cops pick you up? Honestly, on one level, I?d say yer giving VP and PFAL the importance of Noah. Like VP was really the humblest dude to come along for 2k years. God?s numero uno humble guy for 2k years of the planet earth?s history. Question: what are the odds the God may be walking among some new spiritual ground-shaker right now? Or even sometime within the next century or two? No? Just VPW? I hope not. The rest of yooz, DUCK! ;)--> tng crap. I try to post one-liners to save us all from me words, and I end up with 500 words. I need a smoke. [This message was edited by sirguessalot on April 15, 2003 at 14:19.]

"Why believe the Bible?" Mike, (sigh) I, too, been thinking about WBTB for years. Many people have. And many people have not, yet still bet their lives on it. And many people have, then bet their lives on it. And many people rethink it quite a few times and in different ways each time during the crossroads in their lives, and even change their wager. And many even consider other people's scriptures in their calculations. And many do not even include the Bible, yet still ask the same kind of "why" of something else, and some even bet their lives on it. I know you may deny this, but other people have thought through WBTB without having ever heard of PFAL. And yes, some people were aided in thinking through WBTB because of having learned PFAL. I myself am not done thinking about WBTB. I don't wanna be done thinking about it. And I feel no need to bet my life right now. My true life is not at stake over my WBTB. Ya know, the whole lie in Eden seems based on false risk expressed with a reverse psychology of sorts. And this subtlety is still written in the double-helix of most religions, which, to me, includes PFAL as a small but potent mutant strain of grand ole' protestant Christianity. I do not believe that VPs gamble ("I would rather be wrong and live like it was true, than live like it was not true and be right," (or however the heck he put it)) defines the only two games in town. And this stuff is wearing me out too: Neither the order nor the pace in which you learned the various lessons of your life matches ANYONE else's divine curriculum. Get it? No more schoolmaster. Only two laws worth betting your life on. At least I'm thinking about it? Indeed. Many of "us" are. Forget it. This is a yawnathon. I am logging out and quitting acronyms cold turkey. I hope to see you in Bizarro World soon.

Render unto Caesar, dude. Try not to let him kill your joy. Besides, I'll wager that I'm worse off this year then you are. ;)--> Truth is, tweakin' the "WBTB with the P'sP" sounds like quite the yawnathon. But I might humor you a post or two if you start a private topic. Mike, the secret of not barging in is NOT to barge in. Play in time. Play in tune.

Do I wanna touch it? Sounds a bit too kinky for me. To tell ya the truth, I remember neither your WBTB question nor Paw's Principle. Too many scrolls ago. I try to live in the moment, now that bible practice is over and the band is playing. But I dare ya to post on your latest parody thread without preaching. Who knows? You might even make some friends.

Fair enough, Mike. It might have worked better the other way around: Had you sought a genuine rapport first, rather than going straight for the prophet-like announcements of reconciliation and ruin. But your "confrontational-sermons-first" approach seems to have already ruined most of your chances for decent small talk here. I honestly hope its not too late. You seem like an interesting dude. I, for one, don't feel threatened by what you promote. I just think yer a dork who is gambling with more than he has and has gotten too comfortable getting picked on. For what its worth, I've been a dork b4 too. Todd

Mike, Heerz a few honest questions for ya: Why are almost all of your posts on threads also started by you? Why don't you wanna talk about anything else here but your message? This is an open mic coffee shop, and it seems yer way past being booed off stage. Todd

...I hope you find this place. My email is open. Todd

Mike, Thanks for clarifying as much as you did. Although, I honestly have to say that none of it was really illuminating enough to convince me to want to re-master the PFAL books, or that anyone else really needs to in order to enter THE inner sanctum of holy servitude. But I actually do believe in and endeavor to apply a Godly empowerment that comes alive in a life of love and sacrifice (among other things). It also seems that you missed the point of quite a few of my questions anyway (Yes, I doknow this...I asked them), although I really don't think it was your intention to dodge, or that you are stupid. And I wouldn't fault someone for missing the gist of complex questions (such as the kind we often smack back and forth here), especially in light of the intangible nature of spiritual faith and our often radical stances on them. I was somewhat disappointed, though, at how empty and redundant your explanations seemed (I say this not to insult you. That's just how they look from where I sit, walk, and stand). At least I hope the process of asking and answering helped you clarify a few things for your target audience (NOT that I was playing "devil's advocate." I was genuinely looking forward to your answers). I can only guess the level of both self-deception and adversarial deception you may think I suffer from. But please, keep it to yourself. ;)--> I'm not sure what else to say to you but "good luck in your walk." Barkeep, give this guy another of whatever he's drinking. In fact, make it a round on me. Cheers, tng

Sorry to butt in, Wolf, Interesting stuff on H.H. and Catharist, btw. I'll look it up. Steve Lortz, Good stuff. Question: Doesn?t the end-half of I Corinthians 15 offer a clear example of a dichotomy of material/spiritual realms? And I honestly think that the heaven/earth concept far outdates Greek philosophy. Is not the "firmament" as described in Genesis a record of some critical duality in the Kingdom of God? What about Sumerian myth? Aborigine lore? All older than Greek language, art and wisdom, no? Nonetheless, I agree with the essence of what you said here: tng *** Mike, As per requested, heerz some snippets and summations from my posts on pages 3 and 4 of this thread: I understand how you are writing to a specific strata of grads (at least directly), and that your face is set like a flint in that, but where is the substance of your revelations? You wrote: What exactly ARE your proposed practices? So far, most of what I've read is the stale prose of regurgitated PFAL. With slight variations here and there, but same words, same nuances of language, same models, and same exclusive relationships of meanings. Regarding basically all other beliefs being unspiritual, you wrote: No one? Really? Not now? Not since century 1? And you know this? How? And what about your operation of all 9 all the time? Are you then offering the formula to all 9 all the time? Can you tell us what "all nine all the time" is supposed to be like in today's world? 2k years and counting, and things are as intense and confusing as ever. C'mon. You offering meat or you offering milk? I?m not asking you to show a sign. Its clear that you believe the you and the OLGs are not up to par yet. But are you promising that those biblishly potent signs and miracles will follow those OLGs who believe PFAL the way you prescribe (I hope so, for your sake)? Can you really play SPIRITUAL HARDBALL to the point of instructing in the art of it? The art of living it? For sick people, for pregnant people, for dying people, for destroyed people, for proud people, for enslaved people, for cursed people, for the bewildered, the angry, the disturbed, the guilt-ridden, bored, the wild, and the numb? Wierwillian one-liners gonna do all this? PFAL -isms, lists, spread-sheets, formulas and diagrams gonna do it? By ?spiritual hardball,? I mean, the ?hows? of a holy man. The ?hows? of a re-pioneering saint, in whom Christ is forming towards 100%. The "hows" of real-life apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. It seems to me that if the question is being asked, you might NEED to know, real soon. One promising paths to certain holiness might want to provide some sort of enlightening and empowering destination for people to grab onto. Something with handles on it, ya know? Cliche notions of ?all nine all the time? don't really seem to communicate the excellence of empowerment. I?m not asking case-by-case specifics, that would seem goofy. But the spiritual application for people?s lives who are going to be MOST IN CHRIST should prepare them for some sort of a trail of signs, not just persecutions, right? Correct me if I am mistaken, but you also have seemed to imply a certain sense of urgency in your message. So, what "level" of priority should OLGs and the rest give your beseechings? Where does your message fit under the Kingdom of Heaven? Are your/VP's PFAL methods the one-and-only route for JUST OLGs to reach that "Ephesians 6:10 lifestyle?" Where do non-OLGs, non-PFAL grads and the rest of the world's non-TWI folk fit in? Particularly spiritually? *** That aside... I think we all misunderstand the very character of Christ's presence when we think the most vital truths of him are hiding in some arcane place. And I think our state gets worse whenever we think that we alone have been chosen by God to protect and preserve access to these greatest secrets in the world. Are any of us really supposed to hold these keys? tng [This message was edited by sirguessalot on April 14, 2003 at 6:19.]

Goey, for the record, I believe in God, Jesus Christ, and that the Bible is the Word of God. I study and pray every day. Your presumptions of my beliefs could not be farther from the truth. IMO, your statement was counterproductive and lacked value because it declared that anyone who does not agree with YOUR evaluation of Mike's obvious evil nature does not have a lick of sense. That's all.