sirguessalot

a few more thoughts on it... i think that the "baptism of fire" only seems future to some because we have never felt "it" now or maybe did not know it for what it was or maybe we see little to no value in it, sacred or otherwise, that sense of feeling, sense of touch but not only did the Kid™ everyone brags about actually feel it he reached for it, practiced it, demonstrated it, embodied it, and lived it in the streets, in the temples, with anyone with all the godlike irreverence he could muster he cracked it wide wide open along with other things "breathe" he said, and "love" among many other things but start here if nothing else and practice this faithfully and pay attention to what happens next its beyond mere passion, but compassion which is a much wider open space and when that daystar arises in our heart whatever shadows are there do not flee, really but are simply filled with something else and so there is blood, fire, vapor of smoke...oh my! (once da boyz finally got it, that is)

what is it, really to die as a world together but to be reborn? the unborn babe is always doomed it seems to run out of time to run out of room to the innocent we are always nearing "the bloody end" and so who can blame them for not knowing the joy waiting just around the bend? if we are "in sin" we are incomplete unfinished but on our way be it the many sins of a tiny me or the vast sin of a vast vast we and so yes, Roy perhaps it is the recompense of our "error" and so yes, perhaps the creator is both just and merciful in that our error and our sin is in simply being only "half-baked," as of yet the womb has stretched but will not grow any further yet we keep growing and growing pushing the limits in waves one after another we grow in waves most i meet hate this place, usually and want out of it, like a silly babe what is it to be born again? but to die as a world or as an i :)--> :(--> :D--> ;)--> :o--> :P--> --> --> --> have no fear peace on earth goodwill towards all

lol sorry irisheyes the curse of me, i suppose welcome to the gsc

yeah...& please dont get me wrong, mj i love books too. and knowledge. especially the Bible. an interesting book i am reading now is called "The Translucent Revolution." as i read on, i think you might relate to it. and yes, we all have narrow minds when it comes to what really is. question is, i suppose...who is it then that is aware of the narrowness of our minds? if that one is observing the mind, it cant be our mind, then, can it? as all this pertains to angels and giants... whatever maps of angeldom are put forth, either now or over the millenia... ...as helpful as they are, those maps are never the same as the territory they describe. regardless of whether the the map is described on a page, in our ear, or visualized in our head (not to mention how the territory itself tends to change from time to time, sometimes quite radically)

btw - i know i'm speaking fast and loose and on the fly. sorry y'all. i think perhaps its a more direct path at times...using silly poetries to try and unravel silly poetries. i dunno, maybe we can move bigger mountains that way. peace :)-->

and considering how all the books of the Bible were written over such a long diverse period of history, covering quite a few changes in religious and cultural thought, and only represent a small small fraction of even Judeo/Christian spiritual writings of those times, let alone writings regarding the nature of angelic experience... ...there is no clean cut perfection to what is said about angels in the Bible and, more and more valid texts about it all are being discovered as the centuries roll by to "speak in tongues of angels" and "interpret the tongues of angels," in my experience, is to speak of these universal "angelics" in a way that transcends all the old limits of racial linguisitics. i mean, how else does one blow the minds and challenge the beliefs of a multicultural crowd? (with all those "angels" are already present and waiting within each and every speaker and listener) to be "confused by Babylon," is when we cannot see the universal FORMs (light) of truth simply because the words (sounds) are spelled different having evolved through a specific race (which God can draw from the rocks again) what else is it to "open the inward eyes," but to show us how to see how form/shape of divine wisdom comes BEFORE the fom/shape of knowledge just as the light of lightning comes to us before the sound of thunder (though, if we miss the light, the sound still comes eventually.) in part, Jesus the Christ and his students came to rescue his people from textual racism and blindness, and bookish xenophobia And that the multi-layered "angelic" realms of life, inward and outward, are universal, and more tangible and are ABOVE the limits of language, just as the words "Jesus" or "Christ" or "God" or "Angel" also are in other words, "put the books down, see THE LIVING WORD regarding angels where it is NOW, which is EVERYWHERE, including your very nature" try and let go of that death grip on mere words, and simply use them as the crude tools they are because books are made of dead wood, which can be and are often set up as idols and white-washed sepulchres of dead men generating obsessions with the past and future when each of us are already living epistles NOW, chock full of our own angels and Jacob's ladders and narrow pathways to navigate (sorry if too bold...maybe just try and picture me as a bubbly cheerleader with pom poms...because that is closer to my intent :D-->)

i agree, mj in my haste, i may have spoke too absolute or too general because i do also believe that all the notions of otherworldly (and same-worldly) beings has deep truth to it as well bottomline, i guess angels are incomplete parts of the overall Christ/logos/universal divine form which is why even the spectacular visitations have such limits angelic visitations could be manifests of one's self or of parts of one's self of a collective will, desire, or knowledge or of parts of collective will or of a distant prayer partner or group (in another language, even) etc.. and are most often completely misundestood for something other than what they are. and the experience can only be translated through the value/belief system of the experiencer/s (which can makes things worse) sometimes people are better better off had they not been visited at all because their worldview distorts the message and entrenches them deeper in whatever belief system they are already in lets say that a hopi healer is praying for someone and does not personally care what race they are, or what tradition they come from and just wants them well (which is Christlike, regardless of knowledge) but unknown to the Hopi, this manifests in that person's dream and that person is also healed (for any reason) and so they go to church the next day saying "Jesus himself visited me" and "aint i so special," and "isnt Christianity's book superior to everyone else's?" yes, it is a wilderness the master taught us to walk in the wilderness not avoid it, or hate it for being wild but to be wise as serpents harmless as doves (and don't forget to take off your darn shoes) The Mystery ™ is never solved forever

i really love your story of the penn hills, mj to add...i doubt there is a clean solid consistant usage of metaphor from Genesis to Revelation. also, things expressed as being trapped in future had little to do with whether they were everpresent truths and more to do with whether the people could grasp the everpresent truths Jesus taught nothing new for there is nothing new in a sense

and i think the all notions of water baptism, as i understand them, are good for stepping back and cleaning off things you want to keep. for spiffing ourselves up for a date with our spiritual community. but fire baptism is a much wilder thing. a path of pain, mostly. i doubt very many who claim to follow in the footsteps of Jesus would have been comfortable with his baptism. life as you know it tends to unravel and melt and loose it previous shape. your place in history comes undone. too much information is a new gift and a new problem. reminds me of the blue pill/red pill decision from "The Matrix." because there is a point of no return. or how once a seal is broken in our perspectives, it tends to stay broken. Once we start down on a path of deeper spiritual metamorph, if you will, there is no turning back. and nothing will ever be the same. and for the most part, most people you know and love just typically do not want you to change, period. they love you for who you are now, and to change is to take that from them. now, imagine a path of change after change after change... this is the bittersweet pill which is why few ever really follow the kid himself but rather, chase after his followers

well, i sure do wish you a miracle, friend maybe there is one just laying around nearby you now they do that, i think ;)--> and, imo, sometimes, meeting the "right" people can be miraculous in nature we can be living signposts for each other that way

in my travels, i have come across strangers in dire need, and helped them, but did not have the time or inclination to hang out once the work was thru. i probably seemed like a mythical angel, but i'm just Todd. also, have been helped by strangers who never stuck around long enough to chat afterwards. and have met a few people in life who simply do these sorts of things as a way of life. I cant imagine this has not been true throughout recorded and unrecorded history no, not "magic" per se, or otherwordly explanations required, but nonetheless, worthy of the title angelic intervention in the world, imo Christ comes from within, remember? perhaps when we all get this someday, "Christ will have finally fully come to earth" also, the notion and scriptural records of meeting glowing angelic beings...deeper investigations have revealed to me that these are often our very own "inner man" manifest to our unconditioned perspectives. not that this would make it any less holy, or valuable, or significant in life. just that it is often not some otherworldly being that is seperate from us, visiting from afar, but an actual part of us and God "stepping out," if you will. also, i think that sometimes, even the old biblical references to "angels" are not reference to some other beings, but various aspects of our very selves (which function better if they function as a whole) and so, if "the angels are fallen from heaven" folks simply act like "the devil" and the way they reproduce and satisfy themselves reflects this, strongly and reverberates in lives again, no special magical beings from beyond time required (because "they" are all already always everpresent anyway, in us, around us, fallen or not)

hi all. a few thoughts i think i've mentioned it somewhere around here before. perhaps the difference between water and fire baptisms can be expressed thus: (pardon the way way general sense of things) the water baptism of John is more associated with the healing arts and restoring and cleansing that which is there a much cooler way of purification fire baptism is more associated with purification by way of destruction the total consumption and evaporation of that which is there hot hot hot stuff...hell to some, heaven to others John represented the spiritual cutting edge of the times he was a healer, most likely an Essene (which was a sort of smart hillbilly jewish "pagan" from my experience and understanding of the term) but John knew what wisdom was lacking in his corner of the world he had a good eye for it and what had been lost what had been forgotten what was only envisioned which is probably why he spent so much time in the woods (few would accept his thoughts, i imagine) and which is why he could recognize the cutting edge when he saw it. to him, all was a level playing field (hence, the "mountains and lakes" shticke) in a sense, he could have said something like: "i am an expert in cleansing of body/soul/spirit via water, but this guy can take it somewhere else entirely. and in a way that is way way over even my head" baptism of water, as it is used in scripture, is important to the world but it will not introduce one to what is meant by "eternal life" or "the mind of God," or "mind of Christ" John's water had its limits, and Jesus used it to heal (what else is spit on the eye but a water baptism?) but baptism in fire represents a positive view of the destruction and rebirth of self like a phoenix or burning bush or flaming sword or a way to quicken our inner "gold" or... water = clean fire = change (as in a change from mortal to immortal) question is, perhaps, if we want to get beyond mere translations and theory and conceptualizations, how does one get baptised in fire? how does one practice being the disciple of a fire-baptiser? then, how might baptisms of water and fire (in any sense of the terms) work together better than they work apart?

as it pertains to Roy's eggs and whatnot... and to use the frame of body/soul/spirit... it seems that we can identify with our body, and not with our soul just as we can identify with our soul, and not with our body some might even identify with the spirit and not with their body or soul (which can really suck, too) a key to wholeness, it seems, is to learn to identify and then disidentify with each part, from part to part. we are better able to see a more whole self, and the whole self of others, i think all three are already always there and always have been, it seems our walk is to learn ways to unpack them all in heaven, and on earth, and in hell to reach that promised sense of fullness and honestly, who here could unpack all these things alone? i think this is where our inherent desire to gather together comes in though we often have to unpack some things alone, i think, for all kinds of reasons, which can take a lot longer. which can be tragic. we are all so gifted already i think this is where higher forms of dialogue come in and by "higher," i do not mean "more moral" or "more good" i simply mean "thinner" and more expansive and spacious, whatever that might look like because this is the environment that seems to help quicken the "egg hatching" processes for everyone involved

yeah kinda like a romance, or dance, or music maintaining healthy polarities between spontaeneous and planned there are some cool modern and emerging styles and fusions like that ole beat poetry, or some kinds of jazz, urban rap even musical comedy like "Whose Line is it Anyway?" street improve (like the master knew :P-->) something called "spoken word" is one of the more intellectual philosophical forms i've seen lately. just watching or listening to some of these guys will really open yer eyes and sit you down. Saul Williams is an artist worth checking out along these lines i think the heavy heavy dogma mixed in twi's version of spiritual "interpretations and prophecying" was what robbed the ideas of a lot of its value. from early on. it was no where near open enough, or inclusive enough to live up to any sort of pentecost experience, or the way that greek seem to put the final nail in the coffin of peter's lifelong spiritual racism (one of those shell games, ya know? in other words...once he finally saw the jam, he was toast :P-->) practicing spontaeneousness is like caring for a vital organ or limb. if we do it artfully, skillfully, ethically, passionately...the values of the outcome reflects

yeah, something gets spewed out of a mouth, i recall :P--> by direct, i guess i mean...BAM! ya know? less waste = more direct and especially considering how unplanned and spontaeneous your writing often probably is btw - ever hear of a poetry jam? you might like it

too cool, lindy i'd love to see your work and let me know if you need help resizing them for posting i do the finish work in photoshop, but i use a few other programs too. 3d environments. modellers. renderers and though most all of them were first designed on paper, some started with a direct scan of a pencil sketch. I can relate to that. Most all of what i now playfully/annoyingly have to call a body of work, was produced in a relatively short period of time of my life. (and i like how the digital mediums are so hyper immediate that way. part of the "trouble," too, i guess) and i hear ya about jellyfish i appreciate the one-pointedness of them and how do not know they are wet (and probably think they are flying, or something) hey, if you get a chance you have to check out the digital animated art of the singer of Incubus i saw it on one of their latest DVDs, with a live show at Red Rock there are some animated video sequences that really swim and evolve to the music i tell ya, i meet a lot of artists doing things other than art ive done a lot of things besides art and its a hard career to justify, for some as hard as it is to define but i think we're just all artists, really and not a single one of us are merely artists and as close as art and creativity is to direct creation i think it is as much direct reflections of something, somewhere but we wander through periods of specialization in life and when what we want is too far away (as it always seems to be) rather than rip out our roots and go there i think we can just patiently grow towards it from right where we sit now in waves, of course we grow in waves i think

damn...cm that's quite a brazier of sizzling coals, my friend i see an epistle living lol and you waste few words reminds me of Bruce Lee i mean...BAM! def, my friend, you crack me up so please take this as light as you can fun is in the eye of the beholder, it seems and...you might want to reconsider this shell game you seem to want to dismiss with bad puns, for it is throughout the scripture you hold so dear and often thwack others with...and many you do not i mean, how many seals must Christ break before one can even sit in the throneroom of God? ...in "your" book? and so how many seals must one break in order to follow him and his bloody red line through the woods? how many deafening trumps will send you running and hiding from them? (rather than simply turn your face and look, and perhaps take yer shoes off while yer at it) Peter calls em one thing Paul calls them another Jesus calls them another What will you call them? What does Roy call them? And what the heck are they? i dunno, i kinda like these kinds of questions please, pun away so i can ask you some more :P--> and i ask all this in sincerity, and somewhat rhetorically, and in fun, i do hope you see cuz there is still great value in sincerity, i believe truth is, who can blame anyone for not seeing and knowing these kinds of things? (i dont. i try not to even blame myself for when i lose sight of them, as i often do) i think it is getting increasingly difficult, in the world, to appreciate and experience the value of the vast layers of inner worlds each of us inherently hold. our modern and post-modern cultural and peer-to-peer perceptions and arts and sciences and religions are often so obsessed and limited to the outer body and outer world...literally haunted by that old ghost in the machine, and so often just write it all off as an unattainable mystery. or maybe hunt it like a devil. or even be hunted by it as a devil. thus, one is often mocked for exploring it. expressing it. querying of it. as if the inner self is to be taken out of shot in the head. it is off boundaries, or to kept to yourself if we have forgotten or never learned how to be naked of soul with each other, how can we ever expect to sit in the spirit of each other? things like mockery, slander, intimidation...all it takes is one such voice to close the door things like shyness, self-loathing, hardness...this is what happens when we are used to being left alongside the road i ask, in what ways can we be more open for each other? for longer and higher and wider deeper ? i think that when one learns to surrender their ego to love the ego is no longer an evil growth, but reborn as a living personality and so perhaps yes, it was a shell game from the beginning a playful shell game, with all kinds of cooing and coddling along the way (once all the screaming bloody murder was thru, of course) and so to keep the pun going, yes, the yolk is still on us... if we are still sleeping in an egg or we have not conceived anything greater or as an embryo, if we are not yet unborn or as a nweborn, whose eyes have yet to see or a child, whose legs have never stood ...or as an old man or woman, whose soul still longs to be born from its womb, and the first three horsemen have already had their way i would then ask, is there some moral sin in being unborn to a thing? if so, i would think we are all then in sin one way or another constantly what do we do?

i have just come to love the style of your epistles, Roy transparent appeals to the hearts of whomever, ya know? takes as much heart as ballz, i think your publications always glitter of deeper things, to me but, of course, often fail miserably to actually directly express them (perhaps we all know how that works, to some degree or another) ;)--> anyway, these particular glitterings made me think of this kind of thing (i know how you to love to read of sciences and philosophies, too) and they made me think how, "as it was written from the beginning," everything tends to unfold in nested truths and in a cascade of many kinds of deaths/rebirths, if you will (like back when the Spirit brooded on the face of the deep) that sort of thing...lol

wow, CM and Roy thanks for taking the time to post all this after having studied the essenes history and writings for some time now some of the more valuable and nourishing perspectives i've gained from it all (though i do not consider it an absolute truth) (and i am paraphrasing from memory, here) is how many conventional christians believe the "new birth in Christ" is mostly a spiritual event, while "the return of Christ" is mostly physical event, when it is perhaps entirely the other way around (which may also be seen as "good news," if one bothers to sit with it a minute) studying and practicing essene things (among other things) has showed me, by a variety of demonstrations, some of what Paul meant in 1 COR about misunderstanding the communion causing illness, for example. and i think it has a lot to do with the common reversal of expectations i mentioned above communion is not some magical ritual (though rituals can be magic at times, and communions, like dinnertime, can be as fancy or plain as you like) but a simple and practical rung that one must actually reach for as a primary part of their lifestyle to experience the actual metamorph... namely...our perceptions of food, and the actual deeper depth of cause and effect in this area, especially as it pertains to our thoughts and emotions which is why, i think, John the Baptist was probably more like an Essene than anything else his closer assocation with baptisms of water, cleansing, which involved healing arts (which Jesus was also a master of, but took it a step further) Jesus' baptism was of fire his added layer of cleansing was a bit fuller than mere mortal healing his teachings had less to do with healing and purification (which are great) and more to do with the death and rebirth of the individual...while they yet lived how to fry your mortal sense of self to a crisp...perhaps and then recall it like a phoenix from the ashes ...while you yet live quite a newtrick, i think especially to the place and era he was initially called to reach :)--> History, it seems, continues to give up more and more of its "dead from the sea," so to speak Validating more and more extra-canonical "spiritually recieved" texts And the Essene traditions, new and old and old old, are starting to see the light of day from all of it anyway, thanks again, guys

ok, if "heaven" is "high" and "hell" is "low" perhaps agape is the love that allows us to descend below even "hell," if you will so we can learn to reach always ever further down even as we reach up if that makes any sense

Belle, that is so cool thanks for the lead i love to travel and I really really dig Jackson's work and his site and how it kinda lets you sit back, relax in it takes you on a tour :)--> M, L,

I've been fond of this word lately, all over again (now that some of the dogmatic dirt has rubbed off of it) Here are a few interesting links on the subject, imo Agape on wikipedia Love on wikipedia Agape Love by Haas In contrast to agape, it seems that Eros love is something that makes us rise and strive and reach. Like strands of evolution. Like the act of somehow trying to be born again or saved. It has an ascending quality to it. A climbing, a leaping, if you will. There is a resistance to it (like gravity). We want to escape mortal limitations and enter into the kingdom of heaven, or some other experience of divine love. We want to leave mere conceptualization of this ultimate love, and know that we know that we know the love of God...and all that Agape love seems the opposite. It is something we fall into. Something we relax to find. Something that is already there, as an ultimate ground. To be in it, has more of a descending quality. We descend, it descends. It takes less effort, and covers more territory. The opposite of climbing, it is the freefall into ever greater and greater depths of openness and spaciousness, if you will (which is often more frightening than climbing). And this freefall is said to cause a "splash" that ripples ever outward. ;)--> I've heard it described as being more feminine, too, in that Agape falls down, wraps around and embraces us, rather than any sort of penetrating action or activity. Like a descending dove, rather than a rising serpent Like a new set of clothing Like Jesus. He ascended in his struggles, his will, trying to accomplish things and improve himself and be better, and also descended, once the struggling was over, and allowed himself to "fall into place" in the world, regardless of his will. in time, awareness of this ascension and descension happens simultaeneously. We rise and fall from breath to breath to breath. Agape is not about control and competition, but about communion and cooperation. Effortlessly falling into place. which involves perhaps one of the most frightening things of all to our mortal minds...surrender my 2 cents peace

thanks, you guys and i tell ya, i wish you all could see some of this stuff in print, framed, hung, lit...etc. most of it just doesn't translate through the monitor as well. and most of it is made to print real big too, so the graphics i use for the site are quite small compared to the originals. Kinda free for the taking (to be used with a link or credits, if possible) and mstar, thanks for all the feedback. I have been and will be exploring many markets and regions in the months to come (starting with the NW and west coast). And have pretty much got my "show on the road" kit all put together. Now, its not a matter of if i hit the road, but when and where i hit it. I've been pouring over this year's art and graphics market digest, looking at everything from music labels to book publishers. I am currently seeking representation and such. Also looking into printing onto fabrics large and small. Odd too, how more than one jeweler I've met has suggested printing this kind of stuff onto fabric, such as silk, which has got me intrigued. For bed sheets, tapestries, rugs, clothes, etc... anything to get it bigger and more flexible. Art you can literally wrap your self up in...lol And mstar, I would love to figure out a way to somehow collaborate. I have really come to see this aspect of solo art as a great lead-in to more collaborative work, anyway. Even for non-"artistic" type things, like salon-type discussions, healing arts, activism, etc... (which reminds me, I did a show at a retirement center last week, and was somewhat amazed at how some of the residents really lit up and became more present. It was like there was this strange recognition that didn't require all the usual effort of words and thoughts and memory and socializing to get there. I am very interested in this avenue of the work. Art as aid to therapies and recovery and hospice and such.) Anyway, feel free to send me a link or some photos to get the ole brainstormer trickling, mstar. see if something clicks and sticks, ya know? Thanks again, you guys

Hi Greasers As an announcement of sorts, I thought I'd post a link to my latest project here in the Open Forum (at least til if/when the mods move it down to the gallery and reading room where it obviously belongs...:D-->) And although the site is still pretty bare-bones, its more of a basic brochure right now and I've yet to put words to it all, I've done a few shows with it, and its being pretty well-received in the local gallery scene and generating a little buzz at some online venues Looks like I am rapidly becoming the victim of a career change...lol Anyway, I thought some of you guys might enjoy this kind of stuff Any feedback would be much appreciated Epecially from experienced artists out there and...because it will all help me give the work some kind of voice Peace,

well, things seem to have changed a lot at WS since my wife first started. but back then, she got a small gig right away. something real tiny...like only 2 hours per week. but she took it, and other gigs soon followed. and sorry Garth and all, i havent heard specifically how long it has taken others to get a gig in the recent mega-status of WS. but i do know they are always hiring new agents. and my wife has worked with folks who have more recently signed on.