sirguessalot

thanks yeah, this is getting old

for the record, for anyone reading this who is not familiar with Allen's menacing habits (and i plan to post something like this every time Allen posts his disinformation around me): Allan has never actually investigated the things or people he is criticizing nor is he qualified to comment on them in fact, the project he criticizes is part of an internationally acclaimed educational series heavily overseen by doctors, nurses, psychologists, rabbis, pastors from outside of the project and was initially developed under the direct guidance of the founder of the modern hospice movement also, there are no sex scandals, no alchohol abuse, no demand for followers or allegience, no financial dishonesty, and no academic dishonesty, and no claims of elitism and exclusive superiority, etc... and...it is not my only source of education and inspiration and day-to-day activity ...nor do i parrot things mindlessly ...and i am self-employed the content of my thoughts and feelings on this thread were developed long before i ever encountered the project i am currently a part of and no, i do not get into doctrinal discussions like this with people who are dying here is a thread i started on the topic (and for the last time, Clay has nothing whatsoever to do with any of it, except that he knows me through this forum, and i have come to consider him a dear friend of mine) here is his website if you want to know more about Allan's beliefs and the organization he belongs to btw...contrary to what he says, no one here that i know of has attacked his website or his organization except perhaps in defense of themselves, and to illustrate his extreme hypocrisy but here is a recent example of his beliefs: to Allan: "Must be nice not to have to think about what one believes" from Allan: "Yeah it is actually...kind of peaceful in an undisturbed believing sort of a way." but aside from that i do think Allen provides a great example for us as long as we can stomach it

some searches within inward inner

that sucks, we can lie, and harrass and repeat our same mean ole little uptight message over and over and over... ...but we cant cuss at each other? bummer for gsc (except Allen, of course) btw, i have never been taken to task by a moderator in all my years posting here btw, i have never asked Allen to back up what he believes allen, i think it would actually be interesting to read what you believe about pfal and then compare it to what i learned about pfal as a grad of pfal, intermediate classes, advanced classes, wow, twig coordinator, way corps....etc... (if it wasnt so exhausting) besides...we mostly already know what you believe (at least what you believe about many of us) in fact, you wont stop telling us all what you believe about us and how you actually hold us responsible for your fears truth is, even though a part of me wishes you would find a reason to shut the hell up for awhile, another part of me actually wishes you would just tell us how the heck we can help you get through your obvious tormented state because truly, you are as much our problem as we our yours, right now (ast least as it pertains to this forum, of course) so maybe picture me more like a beggar with a cup, if it helps you asking you, Allen, as the self-proclaimed spokesperson and defender of God that you are... show us mercy give us the wisdom that will set us free from you and sets you free from us show us the way to appease you send someone to save us from your wrath what sacrifice must we make? what must we give you? what must we do so you find and manifest peace? i am more than willing to hear what you think will work cuz i think if we find out what will do this for you (and us) and especially if we find out what it is together... ...we might actually get along quite fine once we are done though it would also be a miracle which is a good thing, too

heerz a little more ranting and raving lunacy after a very successful install and all-around good time with my bro... yeah, Dancing....thats kinda why i have a hard time quoting scripture about this kind of stuff anymore just throw a dart, ya know? especially the new testament i tell ya, if there is any sort of sequence of increasing inward interpretational capacity, at all, (and it seems to me as if there is) it might look something like this... - i can see where first, we take scripture literally as being like a magic spell that selfishly gets us things, whether it is a wonderful foolish child, or a grown man who still thinks like one. This mode of interpretation, of course, is an inward experience that relates to our outer behaviour, which also equally has a part in shaping that same experience - but when that stops working (and it eventually will), we may see them as figures of speech, then triumph over having unlocked the keys, so we start secret decoder ring clubs. This is a shared inward experience that relates to our shared outer behaviour and environment, which than also equally has a part in shaping experience - but when that stops working (and it eventually will), we may see a pragmatic value to parts of the society that have grown up and out and through the Christian languages. Language itself is a vessel for shared experience. - but when that stops working (and it eventually will), and we may realize all previous ideas are pretty limited, so we avoid the whole idea and go play in the dirt pile somewhere else. neither figure of speech or literal or useful...just infinite layers of b.s. and deception - but then, when that stops working (and it eventually will), we may realize that it was both figurative and literal again, but for many completely different reasons. maybe we will finally be able to loosen our grip on the book and rest inside cuz all of creation is/was/and always will be The Word of God even the parts of it we want to avoid or make disappear "welcome to preschool again, kiddo" the "angel of death" might say about now and "get used to failure after failure after failure" ...especially those occuring within, and against our own will, cuz they are designed to simply increase our capacities to know and care yada yada yada (to put it jewishly) and does not Christ want us to always increase or capacity to know and care? .. its not: "the destination is within" but: "at least always start your journey there, and from as deeply and authenticly from there as you can" it seems to me, that the overall value of increased inward attention (awareness, whatever...or some other word that is more digestable) is from how it shows us more deeply how we simply already are within and knowing this is ultimately only increasingly good for everyone else, too (and both within and without of them, too...after all, the love of God is all-encompassing, or God is not God) and so i wonder...what part of us (again, within us) tells us that God is somehow missing, or elsewhere? cuz no matter where you are, the invisible God is there, right? and if the entire created universe is also always only outward from that point within yourself and if this is true for each of us then, i'm sorry (not really), but there is a friggin lot more going on than it seems but we are typically not allowed to somehow have a direct experience or direct understanding of that severe bigness (due to shame and fear). and we are naturally born afraid of falling, afraid of the dark, afraid of the deeps of outer space, afraid of stuff that comes from within us against our will, especially the stuff in our sleep. yet, for our ultimate sanity, we must eventually find out how to freefall within without fear we must eventually find out how to truly "walk through the valley of the shadow of death and fear no evil" ...and not just say that we want to God is holy for being something that still does not go away when we are naked and alone in the dark night of the soul (within)...or scripture lies about God as an exercise...ask yourself: who do you refuse to touch with your compassion and why, right now (yes, with that heart that is within you now, clenched like a bloody fist) (and yes, with that mind that is already within you now trying to be a rainbow about your head) if you do this...in the most classic practical spiritual scriptural sense, you will have met your own personal master spiritual teacher "sent from God" to open your heart a little more cuz when the kid said "love your enemy" he was talking about that aspect of the enemy that is within us, where love begins ...even if we still have to face them on the battlefield cuz there is a sense of love that is a truly radical grace, beyond lip service or it is not the same love that scripture describes and our first responsibiity is to find it and open it within ourselves prior to opening it in others ...or we are completely wrong and should stop and turn completely around as a general reliable rule then, when our attention turns out to the world again, it will be coming from a deeper more genuine and humble self which is simply more effective and has more leverage, in the long run and i do believe it is possible that the whole world will get this someday though it will obviously be a dramatic shift from what is happening within most everyone now. but when/if it does, it would be fair to say that the living Christ has returned to the whole world ...without breaking scripture at all

another thought as i wait for my ride to the jobsite... i think that as our interior deepens (and dont be fooled by size of the human form...hehe) the very basis for our exterior simply only deepens and imo, that is friggin huge! as far as having a scripture in mind, for the call to inward work prior to outward work ...i say, with a mix of play and seriousness...throw a dart and pick one

thanks for the detailed replies Goey and Tom i apologize for not responding in detail...i actually have a ton of stuff on my plate and must go install a book shelf i built and donated for a library (my brother Aaron and I even cut and milled the wood...I am glad to be done, though..whew) but i want to see if i can attempt to see if i catch the essence of what you are saying and respond to it in essence as well...even though i am obviously only touching a few aspects of this complex subject i believe the internal and external views are equally valid and worth endless volumes but also, that each can be viewed as collective versus individual as well i will even go as far as to say that these views are NOT something we must gain but rather something we come to unconsciously avoid and/or get addicted to and/or become numb to for example.. how some people avoid their own interior as if it was a demon and some avoid the exterior as if it was a demon and some avoid isolation as if it was a demon and some avoid relationships as if it was a demon most ideally, we should include all views not only in doctrinal discussion, but in present living life one i think scripture testifies of, is how dangerous and destructive it is for a lot of people who have not examined their own inner selves anywhere near the depth and degree of those in the Bible (and elsewhere), yet crusading (christian, atheist, muslim, wiccan, or otherwise) to change the interior opinions of others for me, its not "what religion does is?" but "who is doing it now?" and what i am saying is NOT that the exterior does not matter but that lack of interior illumination does...A whole helluva LOT interior-only is a certain kind of trouble exterior-only is a certain kind of trouble but they go best together...and both are truly limitless and too...i think there is a big difference between 1) having a shared myth about how the world's evil will come to an end someday, and how my body and soul will be saved from mortal destruction, etc...and 2) actually practicing things that transform your inner awareness, and how you interpret both the exterior and interior world and no, not alone...but in a way where we can openly and rationally compare these experiences of transformation without the shame, guilt, blame that comes with behaviour (speech) driven my motivations we are not even aware of ourselves (and so blame our interior suffering on others) its just that the different segments of society get heavily slanted in one way or another...which is mostly from avoidance and rejection of a view they already have. and if we add an avoidance of deep interior with a powerful story of a returning savior, or rewards of virgins, and a strong desire to change the way the world thinks and acts....yowza of course...none of this is ever the whole story christian history, doctrine and scripture are way too complex to put in a box whether its a christian or non-christian doing it

my oh my get this...dancer is reproved for simply calling allen a bastard (which is basically an empty insult, like jerkweed, or dipstick, and has nothing to do with allen's actual birthright) yet allen remains able to make serious specific and repeated slanderous and inflammatory accusations against people and organizations he knows virtually nothing about, all the while menacing!?! wow

at play with Dancer pasted from revvel's "signless return" thread Dancer is black My words are blue Christ is quite alive and well and living to open these things up within us yes. if Christ = some archetypal universal penultimate manifestation and logos of whatever beyond naming...yada yada yada (as i believe), then the voice of God must be that which is whatever we hear right here and NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW, which is most directly within us, even though it is also outside of us...we are directly in touch with it right now within us...or all scripture lies. and again...Christ is beyond naming, no?...or scripture lies. can we all assume that none of us control the meaning of a name, nor does any name ever replace or change the thing that is named? and there will be sounds and sights and wars in the mind as it trys to live, i agree. within, our perception of the heavens are to unroll and roll up and unroll and roll up, our entire perception of the earth and creation should shake rattle and roll, many times in life ...or we are stuck, and are no longer free if merely reading this notion frightens us...we are likely to be far from the path we claim to follow our belief and faith is of a substance that does not die if it breaks of scripture lies faith in God allows our faith to fail, time and time again the primary difference between lucifer falling and christ falling ...one is terrified of falling, the other is not so one falls like a dove in love without fear and is freed by agape who will stand against His Christ that is within, only innocent and guilty fools. we all do, naturally, in an infinite variety of ways. why kick against the Glory that shall be and can be revealed in us. because we simply dont know because we do not have a tongue for it and have to gain one and we are usually terribly afraid and most everyone we know is afraid we are born afraid and hurt so we naturally resist the opening of our own hearts and resist the most glorifying act of life, in any language...in any religion...in any time but we can also learn to practice opening it til the day we day You have set a time frame for the timeless Lord God Almighty. There is not one. well put. and this might sound strange....but if the innermost man is always only always wanting to open this is the timeless nature of our very self present time presence is the only place the eternal newness of an eternal christ can truly be found ...or the scriptures seem to lie in the end of the book of revelation of jesus christ, time itself ceases to matter....to the author of the book, who then never saw heaven and earth the same way again, and finally saw God everywhere, in not just in places, or hiding You limit yourself by your own musings and not by letting the Lord work. thus, the terrifying sound of surrender A certain philosophical or study pattern built by men. Such maps of God are fine, but they are not the territory they describe. Men forget this. But God is not afraid to compare and evaluate them all as well as create better ones there is no reason to be afraid of smashing a broken pot ..or scripture lies It will not hold up against the fire of God. thank God Hell is at the door and Heaven will abound in every soul. right here right now And has already worked it's work in millions. the heresy is in choosing to look only at some over the rest The eye of God is never afraid to look

thanks for the reply, Mike i hope you find the time, some time

yeah, allen that is interesting and i dont really believe that

wow he claims to have secret conversations behind closed doors with people who agree with him then concurs with them in public and then accuses me of being a cultist? sounds like allen is the one with a secret CULTure going on btw...my PM was the early version of what i posted here in public, only i left in the more abusive words if you felt anything at all from my posts to you, allen i want you to notice where it hurts you, if you can and pay attention to it more often imagine how it might feel in others, too and get this...whether you know it or believe or give a damn what you post here personally hurts me and others like that just like that and maybe even more or perhaps not to the same degree but that depends on how mean one is, i think and i am sure many kinda want to know if any of this matters to you at all

allen, you are a verbally abusive jerk textbook...be it the bible or a science book wake the heck up read slower sit and stare at a tree for a while observe your self more something your abuse is mostly from the way you lie by saying false things about people and how your facts are simply usually wrong when you make personal statements you spread disinformation about things you have never looked into and you menace other people for it i mean...doesnt that suck? as in "suck the life out of things?" your repeated banshee wail is "oh Todd, oh Clay, you frighten me, i dont understand you, it is bizaare and wierd and strange, therefore what you say is nuts, and evil, and is a threat to everyone, and i am going to make it my mission to tell them about it" well...that kind of conclusion seems pretty crazy, too. and so i would say that this is YOUR personal hell, not mine and you dishonestly blame your hell on others but hey...the gsc is a looney bin, right? im sure you could agree we already know that you can barely stand what most people post here and i think you need to know all this the sooner the better for the sake of others as much as my own crazy-foot wild-eyed self and so my primary crazy banshee wail is "shut your hell up" and i wish i knew how to help you "shut your hell up" i mean...it must really suck for you to feel so hell-bent on your mission or why else would you hold into it so tightly? or have you gone so far over the edge that you actually find a sense of glee in what you do? :blink: (on a side note...i also do find you interesting, and somewhat entertaining, and care for you deeply....mwah...but that may be too much of a stretch for you)

hm that was kinda purty so ok...heerz a dance Christ is quite alive and well and living to open these things up within us yes. if Christ = some archetypal universal penultimate manifestation and logos of whatever beyond naming...yada yada yada (as i believe), then the voice of God must be that which is whatever we hear right here and NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW, which is most directly within us, even though it is also outside of us...we are directly in touch with it right now within us...or all scripture lies. and again...Christ is beyond naming, no?...or scripture lies. can we all assume that none of us control the meaning of a name, nor does any name ever replace or change the thing that is named? and there will be sounds and sights and wars in the mind as it trys to live, i agree. within, our perception of the heavens are to unroll and roll up and unroll and roll up, our entire perception of the earth and creation should shake rattle and roll, many times in life ...or we are stuck, and are no longer free if merely reading this notion frightens us...we are likely to be far from the path we claim to follow our belief and faith is of a substance that does not die if it breaks or scripture lies faith in God allows our faith to fail, time and time again the primary difference between lucifer falling and christ falling ...one is afraid of falling, the other is not and so falls like a dove in love without fear and is freed by agape who will stand against His Christ that is within, only innocent and guilty fools. we all do, naturally, in an infinite variety of ways. why kick against the Glory that shall be and can be revealed in us. because we simply dont know because we do not have a tongue for it and have to gain one and we are usually terribly afraid and most everyone we know is afraid we are born afraid and hurt so we naturally resist the opening of our own hearts and resist the most glorifying act of life, in any language...in any religion...in any time but we can also learn to practice opening it til the day we day You have set a time frame for the timeless Lord God Almighty. There is not one. well put. and this might sound strange....but if the innermost man is always only always wanting to open this is the timeless nature of our very self present time presence is the only place the eternal newness of an eternal christ can truly be found ...or the scriptures seem to lie in the end of the book of revelation of jesus christ, time itself ceases to matter....to the author of the book, who then never saw heaven and earth the same way again, and finally saw God everywhere, in not just in places, or hiding You limit yourself by your own musings and not by letting the Lord work. thus, the terrifying sound of surrender A certain philosophical or study pattern built by men. Such maps of God are fine, but they are not the territory they describe. Men forget this. But God is not afraid to compare and evaluate them all as well as create better ones there is no reason to be afraid of smashing a broken pot ..or scripture lies It will not hold up against the fire of God. thank God Hell is at the door and Heaven will abound in every soul. right here right now And has already worked it's work in millions. the heresy is in choosing to look only at some over the rest The eye of God is never afraid to look

ha! very nice, Tom thank you :) and i wonder (not specifically addressed to you, Tom)...and i know it is important to a lot of people...but what would change in our life if one stopped believing and promoting that Jesus is personally coming from some otherwordly faraway place? what if the entire body of scriptural accounts surrounding this topic are mostly specifically talking about radical change in human behaviour from within, either in an individual, or in large collective waves...even to the point of eventual worldwide transformation? i mean, what is wrong with that? how much of the NT speaks of (warns of) inward versus outward realities? and weren't the apostles warned against skygazing for his return? and told that he will come from heaven the same way he showed them how to enter heaven (which was the path within, which is what he was teaching prior to his crucifixion) can you think of a more distinct shift in human understanding? to repent and turn completely around, is to turn from outer darkness to a greater capacity for inner light And if so, I wonder if the doctrine of a personal Jesus from the sky actually inhibits interior transformation towards an actual "day star rising in our hearts" The more we focus on the outer salvation of mankind, the less we find and manifest the actual inner salvation Its almost as if we have so dramatically become focused on the exterior world, that we have lost touch with the depth of interior spiritual awareness and practice that are a hallmark of not only the past two millenia, but of the OT as well.

Is it possible that the second coming of Christ is something that happens from within? Will Christ come from outer space? Will Christ come from Earth's upper atmosphere? (i.e. "the clouds") Or will Christ come through that narrow narrow gate to heaven that is within our very hearts and minds and soul? (i.e. "the very air we breathe") Which would you prefer? Which makes more sense in terms of the spiritual life of Jesus? Is it possible that most of the figurative language of the Bible refers to transformative INWARD realities of life? Is it possible that all those heavy heavy enigmatic figures could actually be more useful and practical as metaphors for how to temper our own body, soul and spirit? What does the Bible say about relying on outer things? if Christ is already supposed to be within, why does he have to come from somewhere else to gather us together?

for the record allan is an foot and an idiot and knows little to nothing about clay or myself or the anamcara project which clay has nothing to do with clay and i have never met outside of a few phone calls and emails allan's habit is of slander and lies and of ignorance and hatred very devilish and evidence of his lack of control over his tongue, his heart or his mind and we would all be better off if he either shut up or went away maybe seek treatment for being a sicko cyber stalker and find a way to open his darkened heart so he will stop being such a raging hypocrite for jesus btw..the anamcara project is a successful hospice related educational project that has helped thousands of people and is a hundred time as heavily overseen and open to scrutiny as our fundamentalist cult and there no exclusive membership or group-think going on, either for allan to paint it as a cult, is to paint a world-wide body of experts in the fields of medicine, psychology, music therapy, bereavement counseling, rabbical scholars, etc...as a cult and fyi...there is nothing wrong with apprenticeship in any field...try not to project your own limitations and paranoias, Allen people have been studying things as apprentices throughout friggin human history what's wrong allan, you afraid learning things in general? or just afraid of other people learning things? stop being a wuss and own your own inward self for once, would ya? stop blaming other people for your own inward terrors sorry rev, this is just getting old maybe i should just start a thread about allan, and ask him what terrifies him about me and clay or just be an foot like him and "just bug him back" like some mod suggested i can follow him from thread to thread and comment on his lil theme park down under sheesh

well, revvel, i am not sure how to respond to all that you seem to make a lot of assumptions and more or less avoided and dismissed my non-rhetorical questions and buried them in a disjointed sermon and no, they were not questions to cause doubt but questions of possibility i am a big fan of possibility i guess if you really want to know my position on some of the stuff you asked just browse a while into these doctrinal threads i have written plenty here on the topics of love, God, the book of revelation, jesus the christ, tongue of angels, spiritual practice, etc... in fact, The Revelation of Jesus Christ is pretty much my favorite book of all time and yes, i do believe every word of it to be true and faithful i am also writing a book on it but it seems you and i see very radically different meanings in the text which is very interesting to me yes, i study your interpretation of it its part of my own work which is why i simply asked how possible you think it is that your interpretation could be very wrong i am genuinely curious as to how possible you think this is (as well as the rest of my questions) because you, like many others, seem so sure of your position neither...and the reason i did not answer this before, is because the question is too incomplete to be logical or answerable i stand for truth, beauty, goodness i stand for the truths of the gospel, and for the witness of Jesus the Christ i stand for a wider embrace, and an ever higher and wider and deeper love, manifest as fully as i can i stand for spiritual liberty and freedom from powerful delusions i stand for dying with grace and dignity, and for the direct knowing of eternal life i stand for all living beings, with the hope of true liberty for all i stand for spiritual communion and community and authentic realization of the perennial wisdom i stand in awe as i look out into the infinite face of God i stand in awe as i look inward into the infinite face of God alpha to omega, heaven to hell, God is there, infinite in all directions i dunno, what kind of question is that, anway? another thing i stand for is continual humiliation in the face of the divine i stand for the wisdom of what it means to be broken i stand for testing the spirits and a baptism of fire I stand for spiritual rebirth and resurrection and renewel I stand for illumination of interior shadows and development an ever expanding heart I stand for all the many kind of intelligences and perspectives available to each and every person alive i stand for the weak, for the young, for the innocent, for the ill and the dying I stand for being responsible for my interior state of mind and soul i stand for authentic textual discovery and research, and for keeping my heart and eyes open for miraculous things I stand for what it means to die in christ

ok, curious...i have a few questions, rev... because i believe this subject is actually becoming more important than before how possible is it that your kind of theory regarding the nature of "the return of Christ" is mostly competely wrong? is it possible that most of the scriptures are talking about something quite radically different than you realize? and is it possible most all of the doomsday/rapture beliefs are actually instigating even more hell on earth? i'm not saying i have answers just asking...how possible it is that you are very wrong about the old books you are reading? and...would they still be valuable to you/us if you were to realize this?

brilliant thread, Mark i especially love the way you put this:

man o man...i just wonder... how in the heck can we engage with them on their terms in a way that helps them see how imprisoned they are? "we can't" is not a rational option for me bingo, dm if one is supposedly "speaking for God" i would assume that this one would be able to speak and answer questions about the specifics of their faith in front of anyone not friendly-only crowds but someone who is both willing and able to field the toughest questions in the world from both strangers and enemies and people of other faiths and wide open in the most public arena they can find anything else is fake, imo or somehow not able to "put their money where their mouth is"

well..i think the modern evangelical movement of the past century has really almost completely lost touch with two millenia of diverse Christian traditions, and quite ignorantly, has very little to do with anything but very recent industrial developments in religious thought and...may even be one of the greatest psychological/environmental/mortal/global threats to peace and safety and harmony in the world today (both here and abroad) and tragically, the modern "atheist messiahs" dont get this distinction very well, either and quite ignorantly (and severely so) often lump all religious thought into one basket with the evangelicals or try and portray all religious history as some monolithic kind of event (as if...) of course, the die hard evangelicals are so entrenched, that to them, rational thought is at least secondary and all the poking and prodding and Penn and Teller scorn you can throw at them is mostly only going to make them more intensely driven to their fundamentalist codes which makes the fundamentalist atheists about as dangerous to the world as the fundamentalist evangelicals (and the fundamentalist psychologists, fundamentalist new agers, and fundamentalist liberals, and the fundamentaist materialists, etc...whatever) then...to add to that...how the post-modern funk of "everything is equal" is true and a step in the right direction, in a limited sense, but also severly limited and inable to address MANY certain distinctions ...and so, mostly empowers the oceans of me-me narcissism we find in America today a radical crossfire of MANY "i don't understand you therefore you must be crazy" crazinesses and so all we mostly do these days is naively stir up dangerous and stubborn passions in each other like strange critters encountering other strange critters in the woods i mean, how many new forms of crazy can our ongoing spiritual evolution produce? (oh %@$#.......i used "spiritual" and "evolution" in the same sentence) :blink:

i find that what a lot of people call the voice of God, is their natural intuitive inward voice. others even consider the imagery of their dreams to be the voice of God and then a bunch of other reasons but not everyone who uses that phrase is talking about some super elite direct message to them from a seperate being either not everyone who uses that phrase is on some high and mighty head trip (though it seems a common habit in all these new kinds of fundamentalism that are going on) but in general...i think that without first taking the time to find out what one actually means by "God" and "voice" and such (and there are wide varieties of specifics) we may not know what they are talking about in the first place and they may not know what we are talking about human language, as it is being used now, can be way more flexible than we often seem to allow and as much as we might like to agree upon specific definitions (for our own sanity and collective reasoning) we must also realize that there are a multitude of kinds of inward dictionaries in use in each of us perhaps the act and proof of speaking in tongues is about more than what we learned in pfal, but an actual acquired capacity to inter-communicate about God in a way that is free from the usual limits of conventional languages unless we can make it a habit to start finding out how to compare dictionaries to some degree or other ...and prior to debate... it seems we are doomed to continue babbling on in Babylon about meaningless words like "God" aside from that...in my experience...God is already always everywhere, and God as this always already everywhere also never ever ever shuts up anyway if i hear and see a bottle breaks, God speaks to me if i hear and see a star explode, God speaks if there is only silence, God speaks to me but i dont think it is a big deal but i also think it is a big deal

amen to that

...a shameless bump and brief update i've just finished redesigning the website...and i'm kinda proud of it Sacred Art of Living Center i also wanted to point out a few related websites that some might find useful: Tom Golden's site has some great articles and resources for men's crisis, grief and healing...which is an oft-neglected arena in our society Music Thanatology Association - this is a world-class bunch, and i thought of some of you already musically gifted peeps might benefit from the notions and probably even have some experiences (intuited and otherwise) to share in this regard and something funny too that some you all might get a kick out of... is how, as i continue working and studying in these fields i keep finding myself sitting in this very elaborately over-the-top bar joke: it goes something like: "so this rabbi, and a monk, and a priest, and a nun, and a neurologist, and a psychiatrist, and an undertaker, and a druid, and a buddhist walk into a bar...."