sirguessalot

i know abi...good to meet you here again, btw but, and ...we have to start reaching for it so that it does become lived it has to at least begin as an abstract possibility even though it is already concrete as the very reality we are soaking wet in but we wont reach for that which we dont deem as possible

well...im back and it seems to me that God did not consider anything evil and to eat of the tree of good and evil...was to basically fall asleep and become spiritually unconscious because prior to nourishing ourselves (eating) on a false system (tree) of duality (good and evil)...EVERYTHING WAS GOOD God called it all good..which included "the serpent" in other words...when a snake bites us...and we accuse it of being evil for doing so...one is pretty much asleep to the truth that snakes bite for very good, true and beautiful reasons good and evil is a relative distinction we make based on the limited perspective of us human animals ultimately...EVERYTHING is GOOD...always has been..always will be there is no such thing as ultimate evil...or absolute evil...or complete evil duality = enmity nonduality = oneness with God "to be one with God" is to realize the actual nonduality of the spirit of creation "naked and unshamed" = the all-inclusive nonduality of truth ... in other words...stop eating of that darn system of good and evil and wake up! sigh sorry

for what its worth ....i think you guys might get more out of the book if you started to see Adam and Eve as very important multi-layered archetypes and principles in a creation myth ...rather than an account of 2 specific people for me, this approach has made Genesis more valid and valuable then it was before also, i think it will help if we start finding a way to come to terms with the ethnocentric (i.e. racial) boundaries of the book and maybe we will appreciate the depth and beauty of jewish thought even more and no...i am not talking about merely knowing one's way around concordances and lexicons ...but perhaps finally understanding that much broader range of attitudes around story and scripture and religion and ritual, in general and no..this is not the same as legalism and a return to law...but a more genuine appreciation of the arts and literature and practices that actually exists on the topic ...and yes, there is a lot ...which is as much good news as it is bad news, of course but i think we have gone way too far in our estimation of what we think we can know from way too little information ...and this is causing a lot of trouble and confusion in our world...and in our lives and...i know it might be a stretch for many...but i sincerely implore you all to stretch your wings a bit on these ideas not sure how else to say it but so as not to kill the thread...and the whole doctrinal section i will take my leave unless i am called to the carpet for my words peace

yeah...it seems our western dualistic culture has this strange way of separating 'spiritual' stuff from the stress-relieving stuff of the ordinary life yet many eastern cultures still have no idea what the english word 'spiritual' means ...cuz everything is 'spiritual' to them food, music, dogs, sex, games, sports, nature, etc... one might even say that life itself is our most authentic 'religious' activity ... but in going along with the language of the thread...i would hafta say that one of my main non-religious, non-spiritual stress relievers is money...lol

thanks Roy yeah...i really enjoy the child pics that you and Chatty use, too they inspired me to find and use one of my own ... and a note as i sit here listening back (a bit nervously) through yesterday's podcast... for whomever is listening...please dont take my word for anything...look into things for yourself...and feel free to ask me to clarify also...i am noticing that i mispoke in a couple of places...though i am probably the only one going to notice anyway and...i say "ya know" too much...ya know? :B)

that was fun...thanks guys. a few notes to capture a few things that came up... - i recommend downloading www.skype.com. This is a great way for anyone here to host live phone conferences around any topic. As something that can take place alongside the regular talkshoe GSC Radio. - i am usually available to talk further and clarify anything i mentioned in today's podcast experiment. just reach out and catch me if interested. - i especially want to offer my services as one who can share a variety of things about the contemplative arts as a form of healing and spiritual practice (as i briefly described in the podcast). Not as any sort of certified expert, but more of a signpost and translator. if anyone is interested, i would be open to using skype or talkshoe to continue the discussion around the ideas.

just a thought... im wondering if it might be worth holding off on the arts discussion until our Dooj can be there if so ... i am game to explore any topic ... any format

yeah how Jesus pointed to our natural birth as the model for spiritual birth how he promised a comforter after spiritual rebirth a descending dove?!? ...can't get much more feminine than that how Paul warned not to fall into masculine-only theology and practice how he was a spiritual midwife though i must also say that we will get more out of all this if we move beyond mere theology about it all and into the realm of actual disciplined spiritual practice what we have come to consider remote and distant and reserved for extra special people is as close to us and as ordinary as our very breath i dont write this to bring shame but to help remove the shame that keeps us from it all

sounds good to me

yeah, i am familiar, Bramble the millionth circle is a good example of what i am talking about although its nowhere near as rabidly viciously anti-masculine as others it is a more balanced example of a 4th perspective cultural movement

interesting search, cman...rich results and so as to honor shifra's wonderful contribution i think i finally found the words...so i just want to add a few thoughts... i think the medicine wheel process is a very good and healthy example of a view of the first four levels of the spectrum...in a very general sense ...which then puts one on the brink of a kind of 5th perspective ...which is a classic aboriginal form of touching our mortality and its relationship with the rest of the universe to repeat what i have mentioned before...every level brings a new gift and a new problem much as the first chapters of the book of revelation describe the gift of this level is that our heart is wide open and ready to hold all in a wide open compassionate embrace. the problem is that it also tends to reject most all critical and important distinctions, mistaking them for earlier ways of making distinctions. and so it reacts quite allergically to any notions of vertical hierarchy of any line of development. which then puts a lid on talking about authentic development. and we have a higher percentage of people at this green level of development than any other time in history ...a cultural flatland at the level of the heart that feeds our worst kinds of narcissism and keeps culture from supporting further development and so we get our democratic plurality from this level our environmental concerns our civil rights women's rights but god forbid one mentions the value of even higher stages of awareness and activity that have existed for thousands of years which are NOT the same as the mythic elitist claims of religions, cults and the occult so there is a huge need to keep moving..keep growing...keep developing beyond this 4th perspective rather than mothering us into higher stages...we get sMothered instead i dunno if i am making sense feel free to ask me to clarify

hmm yeah the devastating effects of preaching a spiritual birth while completely avoiding the feminine nature of spirit no wonder there was/is so much sickness in christian thought shrugs

well...i have tomorrow free and would love to strike up some sort of artist discussion though i am open to a wide variety of topics..as usual

well...i wish i had more time and energy to participate here once again i have fallen into a state where my typing fingers dont work very well to convey what is going on inside mostly because it would take many many hours to compose and i dont have them right now nor do i think i can convey why without being misunderstood as being merely severely critical but thanks for playing along like you guys have thanks for sharing your work, Shifra maybe one of these days i'll carve out a way to present my thoughts on art history, theory, practice, etc...especially as it pertains to spiritual healing and the topic of ladders of faith and such space and grace... +ODD

mmm well, i knew i was going out of town to a very large wake this weekend which is why i kept dodging making a commitment to this radio episode not sure how long i was staying...or whether my mood would be fit for social consumption but and so...keep me posted here on what shakes loose i might get lucky

while i cant say ive ever gotten much out of those old name arguments i will say that if they did speak greek commonly and given the cosmopolitan make-up of the region... ...there seems very little possibility that this NT account of "speaking in tongues" is what pfal/vpw and the like describe as being the signifiers and values of "speaking in tongues" which, of course, is talking about what a large number of folks here do believe to various degrees so i try to be as light as possible about things and also say that its as ive been wondering around here for a few years ... a dense summation: how "speaking in tongues" seems more valuable and more likely as some actual wave of reformations and restorations in the arts of ordinary human dialogue and its role in spiritual thought where an easy common tongue (such as greek) serves as a vessel for a wine of greater meaning among all races ...so we can finally see how we are all spiritually red underneath

i knew i should stopped writing while i was ahead to be clear, when i wrote "terrifyingly powerful nature of our imagination" ...i was thinking how that is quite an awesome possibility you mentioned there, dooj

oh how i love the terrifyingly powerful nature of our imagination egads

a few quick easy things as i dart between today's various occasions... ...things i think may go well alongside what we are already doing i suggest everyone who is interested give www.skype.com a try ...you'll see why pretty quick... cuz it seems to work well with plugging into GSC Radio on talkshoe ...and as a way to meet on the side and i also suggest starting a community wikispace or the equiv.. what i am doing with a smaller community is basically having a section of fully editable forums using the initial post as an evolving header a great non-linear way to cultivate a growing garden of community assumptions and basically keep track of what we have agreed on a calender/topic thread, perhaps ...as a way to start collecting topics and finding and catching and holding the windows of intersecting times perhaps think about different interests, talents and skills we already have cuz there is all the usual room for people to play along and contribute in a variety of ways - different ways of being scribes, for instance. those who copy paste edit arrange and link text - or different ways of being gab hosts...for those who love to talk and for those who love to get people talking - or different ways of being techies....for those who love to learn new software - other stuff and.. and dont forget the culinary artists in us, dooj can you imagine what could be done with a cooking circle, hmmm? actually connecting kitchens live, ya know? or some such thing

yeah...i think that is a good idea, too. imo, there is truly smorgasboard of ideas worth exploring together but id like to find ways to explore them, where the details of our explorations are somehow being documented for further review and reflection and development and use i suspect there are a number of folks around here who will pick up on things quite quickly

a quick addition...to clarify i cant really play along today, beyond adding small hypertextual nuggets here and there (my father and mother are in town and coming over for lunch...and other stuff) and i may not be able to play along next weekend either (i may be out of town big family reunion around my uncle's recent passing..not sure if i will make it back in time) but most weekends after that are open and too...as i am more interested in passing tips and tricks along to the community to adopt and customize i am game to meet with whomever on other days to do so and i can imagine a few different ways to do this kinda thing, as well

we could...or ... and...but...too ... i am sure we could also find ways that such a true statement rings even more true as an "offering to a quest," of sorts ...more of a round table type of approach such as openly asking "how could we all simply accept that GSc is not a cult and that people are entitled to a diversity of beliefs?" and then freewill offering answers from our perspectives asking things such as ...what kinds of questions might we find to ask together? and how might we proceed together? then paying ever closer attention to what happens next perhaps playing at ways of purposeful pausing and being open to further inquiry and innovation among other things ...i think at least starting with these kinds of footing can make a world of difference there i go trying to write about it again

oh my... a tad rant i must say that i often weep for my inability to describe in writing what i could easily demonstrate via spoken words ...some things simply can only be conveyed and demonstrated live means, which is why i am so drawn to gsc radio and so...to whom it may concern at the GSC... i invite you all to consider the value of a talk shoe session or series (or more) focused on mainly just this kind of thing...asking courageous questions such as ..."how might we find better ways to use gsc radio for ___" cuz i have A LOT of very practical things to share that i have also experienced and can explain quite well and cuz i most passionately want to convey my perspectives and experiences of the higher arts of friendship as i have come to know them since twi especially as it pertains to cyber culture and community...which this is to a very large degree i am no certified specialist in anything...mostly just an artist and pupil of life and i offer to be as transparent and open to questions as i possibly can about how i have come to know what i am saying and doing but i have come to a point in life where i believe we must reclaim our own imaginations and experiences from dogma and put them to use but in ways that fully honor how we got to where we are i would like to invite a wide array of simple and fun tools and skills that have some deep old roots in the world in a romper room brainstorm style cyber session where we are also free to make up as we go along mainly because i feel i belong to the GSC in ways that i belong no where else in the world and i do deeply cherish that i dont care what it comes to looks like in the end but i know how to ignite a spark that gets us dreaming of better things for each other for what its worth.. this is me, being +ODD

not sure where else to post this but i didnt want to start another thread about it so...speaking of languages guess what i saw i was just flipping thru the cable channels and came across CNN doing a story on Arnie the Governator's recent suggestion to immigrants about learning english ...and CNN displayed a quote on the screen from our very own Raf anyway...just wanted to say that

altho i couldnt find a way to get forums to show up on the translators, i thought some of you guys might get a kick out of reading the GSC Cafe in a few other languages GSC in German GSC in French GSC in Spanish for those fluent ... i am curious as to how accurate the translator programs are enjoy +ODD