Tom Strange

Good post Groucho (wow, I said that and didn't get struck by lightening!) People said the same thing about Ted Bundy...

WHITE DOVE, OLDIES (AND OTHER VEEPEE WORSHIPERS): CURRENT TWI LEADERSHIP DOES NOT DENY THESE THINGS HAPPENED, WHY DO YOU? I walked away from TWI after the first couple of hints of something not being right. I didn't even know of all of the sexual predator stuff, there were just some things that I knew and heard (from the top leadership) that "didn't sit right" with me. I guess you could say it was that still small voice, my conscience, whatever. Years go by (about 20). In all that time I still carried the bogus thought of "TWI is still the best thing going"... "they've got a better handle on THE TRUTH than anyone else"... why would I go anywhere else for my "Christian" learning? Of course, these thoughts had been drilled into my brain during all of the years I was a "faithful follower of the way"... Then one day I thought "hmmm, maybe I'll see if there's a twig around here somewhere. maybe things have changed"... I googled... and lo and behold I get all of this information coming at me about veepee and LCM... I get all of this information coming at me about people being treated like chattel, people suffering all sorts of mental, verbal and physical and sexual abuse... All sorts of things... nothing at all like what I remembered from my days as an "innie"... BUT ...a lot like I thought things could have progressed to in my worst and wildest imagination. I was really, really shocked. I didn't want to think that these things could have happened. How could they? ...not to MY ministry! Even though I'd left, those feelings were still strong because of the amount of my life I had invested... I DID NOT WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE OR EVEN CONSIDER THAT SOMETHING I HAD GIVEN MY LIFE TO FOR ALL OF THOSE YEARS COULD BE SO WRONG... BECAUSE THAT WOULD MEAN THAT I WAS WRONG FOR ALL OF THOSE YEARS, THAT WOULD MEAN (in my mind) THAT I'D HAVE TO ADMIT THAT 'I WAS DUPED'... And I certainly didn't want to admit that... not me. SO... I thought, let me ask someone in current TWI leadership about these things. I need to know if there's any truth to any of these things I've heard. Just like you White Dove, Oldies and the rest of you veepee apologists... I DIDN'T WANT TO BELIEVE OR THINK THAT THINGS COULD HAVE GOTTEN SO BAD. So... I went to current TWI leadership, pretty high up in the old tree I'd think, folks that had been around since the early to mid seventies... and you know what? When I presented to them all of the things I'd heard about: veepee & LCM and all of the sex stuff, plagiarism, M&A, POP, etc ... everything I could think of... one by one I sat with them and asked "what about this?" and then "what about this?" and then "what about this?" And they answered. To each one of the things that I brought up they answered... and the answer was always "YES. That happened." THEY NEVER DENIED IT. They didn't like that it had happened but they didn't deny it. They rationalized their 'staying in' with "we're all human and we all make mistakes, just look at the Catholic Church" type of responses when I'd ask them "how can you still be involved in TWI?" Their position was (and is) that they're remaining loyal to 'the ministry that taught them the Word' and that they were going to try to continue to do the best they can. That's their choice. I don't understand it, or see any logic in it, but that's their choice... But the important thing (to me) is that THEY DO NOT DENY that these things happened. Current TWI leadership... they DO NOT DENY that these things happened. Current TWI leadership does not deny that these things happened yet you folks do (White Dove, Oldiesman, etal)... and you continue to discount the lives and hearts of those that were hurt, abused and molested. That's insane... YOU ARE NOT 'OUT' OF TWI YET WHITE DOVE, OLDIES, ETC

Very callous Oldies, even for you... So... it seems to me that you have come to the realization that veepee DID do these things, you just wonder why people "stayed around".... I've got an even bigger dilemma here: People who know that veepee did these things and still defend the man... ...and yet you still deny the "mind controlling cult" part of the theory? (there's a mirror over there son, go take a look in it)

well... all I can say to that is "DUH!"...

Oldies, did you miss the part about TWI being a mind controlling cult? In fact there are still some around here who's minds are still under TWI's grips (only they don't know it). So... it was apples and oranges huh? you were dismissed, you didn't understand it and sobbed and cried and were totally distraught AT THE TIME... how do you think if, instead of dismissing you, LCM just bent you over and raped you? ...or slipped you a mickey and raped you? I'm sure you'd appreciate some idiot asking you that question up there in quotes 25 years after it happened... along with trying to denigrate your experience while escalating your rapist to a position of worship... I guess I understand you better now... YOU WERE DISMISSED. YOU DIDN'T LEAVE BECAUSE YOU "WOKE UP"... AND YOU'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET BACK IN, TO RECAPTURE THE MAGIC ever since... the way you behave still doesn't make sense to a thoughtful, caring person... but I think I'm beginning to see where you're coming from...

well... we got a lot of prospects which I think is better than draft picks... we'll see how it all works out... did you guys hear that Hicks offered Tex 8 years at $140m? ...would make him the fourth highest paid player, but that's not how you roll if you're true to Boras... you don't take the extension, you play the market... I don't really know if he's gonna get a better offer than that... that move by the Bosox kinda puzzles me as well... but it's a nice luxury to have, maybe they want to try PoPo in the rotation again...

Like Father, Like Son... looks like he learned well from you, just as you learned well from veepee... ...such a fine example you are.

ya know lingo... I don't know why anyone would ever want to be a christian once they've seen your fine example... ...weren't you going to leave here since you got rich? ...and then you never left but signed in as someone else? ...did you learn to be deceitful from veepee too? ...cuz it sure looks like you've got the venomous righteous mean spiritedness down pretty good...

I'm not dragging out the tired old argument about who wrote what book... I'm merely asking you (and the other defenders of the faith) why you would want to continue to defend and protect a man and his organization that has been responsible for so much damage in people's lives. Now, now... your usual response is "because he taught us the Word", "he gave us the class"... ALL I'm pointing out is that he taught you the Word by stealing the classes and books of other people. Why wouldn't you want to get the class and books you hold so dear from the original sources rather than endorse and defend a "ministry" that systematically damaged and used thousands of people? IF it is truly the Word and the classes on the Word that you hold so dear, why wouldn't you get them from the original folks? Why cleave so strongly to a ministry with so much damage in it's history (and it's present)??? I understand that there are those of you that still like the class... why not get it from BG Leonard's folks without all of the woven in hidden agenda of veepee??? I can understand how you might still want to 'hold onto the class", what I can't understand is why you'd want anything at all to do with TWI after all you know. Why would you willingly choose to be associated with them when the class is available from the original folks that veepee took it from. Of course, I'm not really expecting you (or any other of the defenders of the faith) to really be honest about your answer... your choice to continue to choose veepee shows how much your conscience has been seared... Again I ask this pretty simple question: Could someone please let me know what classes or books were veepee's original authorship?

White Dove, you (in your own words) are describing the person and the "ministry" that you and others defend and revere... can you believe that? Why?

Can any of the TWI/veepee defenders please tell me which works of veepee's were "original", you know, not stolen from someone else... not written by someone else? I'd really like to know if there's anything... anything at all...

And that's what gets me ... all of the veepee defenders and glorifiers like to scream and holler about "the class" and "the books" of veepee... but they weren't his books! he copied them from others! ...so what are you defending? ...that he took a wonderful movement that was of God and by God and used it to satisfy his own ego and lusts? is that what you're defending? because all of "the good" that I've ever heard folks talk about here, concerning veepee, has only to do with the classes and books that he pirated from others...

(my bold ital) The first part, Innocent Jonny, veepee didn't "develop" the PFAL class-HE STOLE IT... I have a hard time trying to rationalize that veepee was innocent and went bad when he was dishonest from the start... If you want to believe that he was all innocent and Godly intentioned from the start when YOU KNOW that he stold his classes and books from other authors... from the outset... well, how does that make sense? The second part, Innocent Jonny, (as CC and others have pointed out to you) it was God who did those things, yet I notice-even in your own post-'within the Way Ministry'-you saw evil! ...And "who" started TWI? ..."who" ran TWI? ..."who" built TWI as he wanted it? (veepee) The third part, Innocent Jonny, I believe you've learned very well... ****** A comment on Suda's post: Here's what I don't get... if you really like PFAL and want to hold onto it and give it the credit for helping you why don't you go back to the BG Leonard class? That's where he got it... it seems to me to be so easy to totally avoid TWI and any association with it to seek the Word that you hold dear... just get it from the places veepee did... you don't need veepee as the middleman.......

what are your thoughts "anotherDan"?

"Flower Cleavage"??? ...never heard of it...

yes... it is "G-L-O-R-I-A" ... written by Van Morrison I first heard it from "Them" when VM was still with "them"...

well... I first became aware of it during the British invasion... I was such a young lad...

Here's an easy one for you (probably too easy)... go ahead and post on if you get it, I may not be back real soon to check... You know she comes around here At just about midnight She make ya feel so good, Lord She make ya feel all right

OK.. OK... but I've got to go get on a plane in a couple of hours... Ferry 'Cross the Mersey (I probably butchered the spelling)... one of the most beautiful (IMO) songs of the British invasion... ...by Gerry and the Pacemakers, at least they sang it... I don't know if they wrote it.

...and they didn't have much luck with the stRangers last week did they?

I have that Grrl... well, Dixie has that, I just paid for it :) quick and painless, your vet has all of the info I'm sure... good for peace of mind... as well as finding the dog.

nice...

does this movie also have the lines: Do you know how to use that thing? Of course! The pointy end goes into the other man. ..just wondering..

yes she is Rocky... and if you don't believe US just ask HER!

c'mon dave... just head south on 35 till you get to Dallas, then take 45 to ex10's house... those are the only two roads you need...