Tom Strange

How come YOU didn't leave when YOU first saw it WD? How come YOU didn't leave when YOU confronted them and nothing changed? Don't fault others for something YOU did yourself. Also, it's awfully presumptuous of you to state that "the ministry was built on the standard of It Is Written"... the "ministry" was built on the lives and souls of those sacrificed satisfying the needs of veepee, the BOT and others. You conclude a lot WD... what makes you the expert? What makes you think they were comfortable? Many have told you that they objected, tried to fight one way or another, but were eventually beaten down and submitted to 'the higher authority'... How come YOU didn't leave when YOU confronted them and nothing changed? Don't fault others for something YOU did yourself. WD, there are a number of people on these forums who have told you of the things that went on, the things that happened to them, that they confronted (like you're advocating here) and when things didn't change, they left... yet YOU respond to them that YOU don't believe it ever happened because it can't be proven. YOU deny. OK... I think I understand you now. IF SOMETHING IS TO BE CONSIDERED 'HONEST' BY YOU IT MUST AGREE WITH YOU AND YOUR OPINION. God forbid you should ever change your opinion...

ummm WD, I reposted these last two paragraphs from DWBH because (judging by your response) you didn't read them... and if you did read them you didn't "hear" them... And if you just don't really care about anyone else but White Dove what the heck are you doing here? Happy playing your troll-like games? Is your "fellowship" associated with any particular group? I'm sure folks would like to know so that they can avoid all contact with it.

fiddlesticks??? FIDDLESTICKS???

good one!

of course, you're up dear.

for some reason I really don't think that you'd react so calmly to someone repeatedly telling you that what personally happened to you didn't "pass the test of what truth is"...

You're such a swell guy WD. How about if someone, anyone, told YOU that any of the bad things that happened to you never occurred nor were they "true" because they weren't there to personally see them... or because you didn't have videotape... or because you didn't have sworn affidavits??? How would you feel then WD? Would you then just pack it in and say "gee, I guess that stuff didn't happen to me"? I thought not.

I'll assume I'm correct... next one: I once had a girl, or should I say, she once had me.

yeah... I agree, it got me a little misty...

Correct GSG...!

here's my clue

Yes GSG, it's the first one...

sorry CalDreamer! yes... it's The Tubes, "Talk to Ya Later"...

I'll try again... I have trouble with more than Caddyshack or Stripes... I'm gonna teach you the meaning of pain. You like pain? Try wearing a corset. We're going to steal a ship? That ship? Commandeer. We're going to commandeer that ship. Nautical term.

I concur hiway... I concur. But I still believe that this will not ever have a chance of going away until they start doing blood testing... of course, then it would probably turn out like professional cycling, and it probably is... sadly.

well... TWI (and you) are still out there telling (what appears to be) the "true" side... and we (mostly) were told it for all of the years we were "in"... actually had it poured down our willing throats... only some of us have woken up and found that it wasn't all "true"... ...other than those that are ex-pats living abroad!

Is anyone else as tired of this as I am? (my bold italics)

YO HO HO and a bottle of RUM! Sudo, that looks like a girl elf's body that you put your head on!

I imagine you do OM... but folks questioning (like you) are in a very small minority... but that doesn't mean that other folks didn't get sharply reproved for 'questioning leaders'... we know that happened as well... Bumpy! you've been in Europe way too long! In America the dog is called "toto"... you know, like the group that had a thing for Rosanna Arquette...

A-Rod on 60 minutes last night with Katie... I had to get the oil changed and inspection on 'she who must be obeyed's' car Saturday, found the MLB station on XM, then turned up to the play by play stations, every one of them was some guy reading the entire Mitchell Report word for word... anyway, Pettitte's 'admission' seems to make RC look pretty guilty but I gotta wonder, if the quote from the trainer had been 4 times would AP then have admitted to 4? Ya know what I mean? he admits to "2 times" but was it because that was all he was accused of or is that all there was? I hardly believe any of the pro athletes any more... my worship of them is tainted! ...say it ain't so Joe!

we haven't done a tree in forever... when we did, the last few times we would buy a small live tree (with a root ball) then plant it after the season...

well how in the heck do you know if the whole chicken you are buying doesn't have some infected parts? WG, I still struggle every time I change the sheets with what is the 'right way' to put on the fitted sheet... my mom seems to have solved this by putting a safety pin on one corner so that she always knows... but how did she figure it out in the first place? I had heard that about the footprints and have walked across grass that was frozen... but I heard it at a golf course as to why they waited until the greens thawed on cold mornings before they let you go play... but then by the time spring came around I always forget where to look...

you take a "hard stance" against 'opinions that are unproven' to you... and by unproven, you mean that you didn't personally witness them, therefore they did not occur...

c'mon OM... you know that is what WD has been either saying or implying all along. And you know that it was drilled into peoples brains not to question their leaders... "when I say jump.." That was the culture... I don't know whether it still is... but the culture 'way back when' (when you and I were younger and more naive) was to 'highly discourage' questioning. And OM, WD isn't just stating that it's "his opinion"... he's stated that those things did not happen "in the name of TWI"...

this is what WD wants me to 'document' where he said those exact words (except he'll let me off the hook and delete 'always') nope, not at all... it was fairly obvious to a rational human that my post that you reference was an observation of your thoughts from reading the body of your posts. Yes, I know that I qualified it with rational and I suppose that lets you off of the hook... now, were you ever in TWI anywhere other than Topeka/Kansas? were you ever in the corps? did you ever go WOW? did you ever live in any other part of the country for TWI? your reluctance to answer any of these questions can only lead me to conclude that the answer is NO... which then makes me wonder what makes you qualified to question all of these things related by people from their corps experience, from their wow experience, from their experiences living in different parts of the country under different 'leaders'??? not everything was as it was in Kansas WD. A lot of things that I've heard of here didn't happen to me but that doesn't mean they didn't happen. and I stand by my statement/observation (that you keep omitting) that YOU "HAVEN'T REALLY LEFT THEM [TWI] OR THE WAY THEY TREAT PEOPLE." Personally, I'd love to see YOU and Rascal in a steel cage match, and then the winner (Rascal) could take on johniam next.