Tom Strange

oh... he used that in one of his classes though I don't remember which one...

It's a general impression... I was in 74, out 80 or 81... were there signs from the beginning? in hindsight I think the answer is yes... when you look back on his youth, his first experiences with different churches and how he "had problems", to the setting up of an organization within which he had absolute power... (took care of those 'problems didn't he? don't fix 'em, figure out a way around them)... I also think that since it was set up by him, for him, to fill his needs, no one else will be able to run it and it will wither and die... as it is doing now... it's just an impression, but things just fit too conveniently for it to have been coincidence... IMO

what is on his headstone?

brother socks! I just saw Outkast on GMA (they were on Letterman last night)... those folks are all right AND seem to have a lot of fun with it... I am officially nominating them for Amazing Sea Monkey house band!

since it was only $39, I bought a Hawking Hi-Gain antenna (supposed to increase the signal from 2db to 6db)... haven't connected it yet, but now I'm thinking... in the kitchen/den I've got no problem with signal (the cordless phone based in there is 900 mghz)... in the bedroom, where the signal comes and goes the cordless phone based in there is 2.4 gighz... hmmm... oh well, I'll hook it up anyway, I can always return it if it turns out to be the phone... or get a new phone...

WW, my vote goes with "in the original"... it all fits like a shoe in a glove...

wonder1, are you still "affiliated with that group"? If not, why or why not?

I don't recall it being labeled as such JT... similar things happened, though rarely in my experience... during my time, people were given "more slack" if you will... the focus was on building the ministry, not tearing it down... opening doors, not closing them...

Insightful post Laleo... thank you. I'll jump in. Number 1: victim (IMO) Number 2: not a victim (I don't think bully applies) (IMO) Sure... it's valid... it's his opinion. It's just disagreed with.

all right... are you guys: 1. making fun of me? 2. playing around with this whole law suit thing? 3. just like typing thewayinternationalsucks.com ? I'm old and confused...

Well gee whiz... I had that idea back on page 10! Maybe I was ahead of the curve for once in my life....

and further... I believe the answers to wonder's post didn't include the "bashing of veepee... only statements about the ministry... I myself used "the organization"... you however proclaimed a pity party and didn't even invite anyone else...!

maybe so... but LG does have a point as well... and for the record... I don't consider it a "gender specific sacred cow"... I consider it something that I personally will never know (ginosko) about...

...a former leader of a religious cult in Ohio?

well... the Neiman part is...

OK OM... my point is that we (you and I) are not women. "We" will never know. Nothing you or I could've gone through would or could compare... unless you were sexually abused and violated by another male (which I don't think you were, or you wouldn't have this viewpoint)... I believe that most of the condemnational finger pointing is more "responsive" than "perpetual"... I'm thinking that if you'd allow these folks to "say their piece" without arguing with them or condemning them, they wouldn't be posting over and over... there would be a telling, that's it...

Roll Away!

that's a nice sto-ree WD... but those are no match for the love of the Amazing Sea Monkeys!

LG said: Me either. I've seen people relate their real life stories. I've seen people 'shout from the rooftops' about veepee and his gang... I haven't seen anyone 'wallowing in self pity'... they have nothing to 'self pity' about... they are blameless... they are victims... and they're trying to help others from becoming so... IMO

OM said: I say this with all sincerity, that's easy for you to say, you've never lived through what they have. Again, I implore you to have a little compassion... understand that there is no way in heaven or he11 that you or I will ever be able to understand what they have gone through... it's a mistake from the get-go to think you can...

hmmmm... I wasn't around in the mark and avoid times OM, but from what I've read here it went a lot further than that... not the simple "black and white" that I get as the impression of your statement... sure there were those who were thoroughly disgusted with LCM's leadership, but from what I've read here there was a lot of witch hunting and needless hurt done to people... some of whom may not have agreed with 'everything' going down, but certainly had a heart to just want to 'do it right'... at least that's the impression I get...

thanks WW, that's quite enough... after my "time"...

For future reference... it is observed on the second Monday in October...

Ya think? Here's a group using the exact name of a retail giant... just thought it was interesting though given this suit... now they (NM) were victorious in an earlier suit against the same group to get them to surrender the domain "Neimanskills"... but they were not this time...

Garth... I'll take that one... it's from "Meet the Parents" (the movie)... the character's name was Gaylord Focker. I believe it's a euphemism for "f***ers"... so, instead of writing out a word that's banned, she uses the term... endearingly sometimes... I think... maybe...