Tom Strange

oh... I have to pack stuff for her too?

Exactly, and that's Raf's point (I think) and mine, too. I've tried to leave the personal out of all of this. It doesn't matter (at least in the context of the doctrinal error of CES/STFI).

Well... for one, because I'm not God and have no foreknowledge of whether or not they can be entrusted with the stewardship again... and two, because I am human, and having trusted them once (twice?) with stewardship and them not being able to handle it, I'd not be willing to trust them so quickly again... and three, also being human, I'd look back on the lesson I was supposed to have learned from TWI only getting rid of one and letting the others stay on to "lead"... how's that working out? JEFF: I'm with Raf and the others. Please quit posting (even more) personal stuff. This isn't about their marriage. This is about this unGodly practice of 'prophetic council' and dream weaving... (the fact that it played a part in the ending of their marriage is sad, but incidental) ... That's why I ask you: How can you continue to trust these folks? Isn't there a lesson to be learned? I don't care if John L, John S, or Dan or the Theisens were my blood relatives and best friends... I'd still love them... BUT... if I was truly looking out for what was best for God's people, I'd want them to step away from those roles... at least for awhile if not forever. They are just as complicit (IMO) as the Graeser's in all of this. They've shown an ability to be influenced in the wrong direction... that's not a good resume.

yeah... that's what I was trying to say ex10... you say it better...

Jeff, with all due respect... from everything I've read here... HOW ARE THESE THREE GOING TO GET TO THE ROOT OF THIS MESS??? FROM WHAT I'VE READ HERE, THEY'RE COMPLICIT IN ALL OF THIS... THEY DIDN'T STOP IT! THERE HASN'T BEEN ANYTHING WRITTEN HERE THAT SAYS THEY DID ANYTHING EXCEPT GO ALONG WITH IT! IMO they should "get to the bottom of this mess" by joining the Graeser's in stepping down... period. They've used up their 'leadership chances' for a while (at least)... I don't understand, I really don't understand, why I keep getting the sense that CES/STFI folks think all will be well if the Graeser's step down... From what I've read, they were all in on it!!! How can there be any trust left in those three? They're part of the problem as well if you ask me. They may be great teachers. They may be great researchers. They may be great whatever. But the fact is they were 'on the inside' and let this crap go on... Again, with all due respect, how can you possibly say something alluding that they're "going to fix this mess"??? That's just nuts, IMO, even if you want to cut them the greatest amount of slack ever... and claim that they didn't agree with it but didn't know how to stop it... Well, what kind of excuse it that? What should that tell you? They're not fit (or worthy) to be entrusted with the responsibility. THEY LET IT HAPPEN! ...haven't you been reading the same things I have? I thought I'd post this here as well... it seems that in these "groups" we all seemed to be stricken with a bad case of "gotta-be-right-us"... (the need to never be wrong)... I think what Rich (or Crispy) said: ...I think what Richncrispy are saying ties in with what socks was saying in his suggestion to "find a local church... I think it's all about the heart... and I think that's why churches (most of them) are good at this... the churches pastors are more 'caretakers of folks' for the most part... helping organize, tending to needs, etc than all fired up to make it their main purpose in life being right... They (the right churches) provide a place where folks can serve their fellow man in whatever way they see fit... it takes a lot for us to get rid of the gotta-be-right-us attitude that was drummed into our heads as the only way to walk... funny, I don't remember any accounts of Jesus walking that way... ...I also think part of our (all of us) reluctance to seek out or attend a church is because of the negatives about churches pounded into us in TWI and offshoots... We had it pounded into us to seek our answers and guidance from them... when all along the answer has always been in our own heart, right where God put it...

Interesting point mstar... I've been thinking alot about that lately... it seems that in these "groups" we all seemed to be stricken with a bad case of "gotta-be-right-us"... (the need to never be wrong)... I think what Rich (or Crispy) said: ...I think what you and Richncrispy are saying ties in with what socks was saying in his suggestion to "find a local church... I think it's all about the heart... and I think that's why churches (most of them) are good at this... the churches pastors are more 'caretakers of folks' for the most part... helping organize, tending to needs, etc than all fired up to make it their main purpose in life being right... They (the right churches) provide a place where folks can serve their fellow man in whatever way they see fit... it takes a lot for us to get rid of the gotta-be-right-us attitude that was drummed into our heads as the only way to walk... funny, I don't remember any accounts of Jesus walking that way... ...I also think part of our (all of us) reluctance to seek out or attend a church is because of the negatives about churches pounded into us in TWI and offshoots... We had it pounded into us to seek our answers and guidance from them... when all along the answer has always been in our own heart, right where God put it...

That's a possibility OM... but with different leaders... I know I wouldn't be able to trust those folks...

I was also thinking about packing a GPS gizmo with the coordinates to Arkie Ron's place programmed into it!

Heck, I will... I'll tell 'em to their face... just as I'd hope someone would do to me if I ever tried something so looney... But that's just me...

That's because they don't know what a swell place this is Jonny! If they'd just drop by for a cup of coffee or a slice of pie I'm sure they'd find it as warm and comfortable as we do... "homey comfortable"... (except you gotta keep your shoes on)

Dave, I understand... maybe there's a local shelter or group there in Duluth that can use your help... I know I get a sense of having helped in some way doing that.

TONTO!!! Young Lady!!! why... I... er... of course I'll have them...

Dave, cigars aren't part of the MALPack... they're a given (everyday)...

nope... but now you've given me an idea for my birthday present!

Also, here's a post from Mark S detailing where he confronted the leadership six years ago:

Socks had some thoughtful stuff here (it's on page 9):

Chas, here's something that Mark S posted on page 10 of that thread. It's his letter to the CES/STFI leadership from 2000 pointing out the errors.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from Radar... and I quit reading the letter to JAL a little ways into it... I see you're point there and you're right about the letter. I guess I've focussed on the 'prophetic council' stuff and it's ridiculousness (at least to me) and not tried to look at any of the personal stuff... I do see your point. What I did read of the letter looked to me like a rundown of all the things that they did to her (for as far as I got)... maybe that's why paw let it be put out there...

Rhino, my spousal unit (she who must be obeyed) got me (well, I had to order it) the entire Green Acres series on DVD from some outfit in Canadia... all six or seven seasons...

oh... "I see"... said the blind man...

yeah... I've got the one with the toothpick and the tweezers (they're not only for splinters ya know!) I'm not going anywhere, I'm just putting together a MALpack... aren't we supposed to always have one ready to go?

Radar, I'm not arguing with you... I will just pose this question: How is this any different from all the posts about LCM and VPW and the goings on in TWI? If a lot of those things hadn't been posted and talked about on the internet TWI would still have control over a lot of folks lives. Just thinking (and before you say it, I know that's dangerous for me)

Rhino! ...are you sure your name is not "Mr. Haney"???

some woman a mountain (a picture not showing0 some rocker, is that Billy Bob?

I'm thinking Bon Bons would probably go bad. The astronaut ice cream pellets might be a good thing though... That's why I was thinking slim jims verbal, they'll probably outlast Kieth Richards... Scotch... oh yeah... for medicinal purposes! I didn't go to the Tracker school but I did read his books (the cold is your friend)... And I do have a copy of his field guide to plants, I'll make sure and pack that! so... Slim Jims, Twinkies, Astronaut Ice Cream, Scotch, Field Guide... Food, First Aid, hmmm, what else? Oh yeah! ...one of those hand crank combo radio/flashlights! what else?