J0nny Ling0

Ya know, I had a great time on lEAD, as did most of the people on the sessions that I was on. But, I do believe that LEAD should have been optional as in voluntary like the rodeo school. It was pretty dangerous, as has been illustrated by the incidences that you all have described. Nothing close to this happened to me and the gals with whom I hitchiked. We had a few "harrowing experiences" on the highway hitch hiking, but they turned into really neat victories. But I do remember an incident that one person mentioned over on the LEAD Accident thread. And it was the first time that my suspicions proved to be true. There was a gal in the Tenth Corps who went LEAD with another Tenth Corps guy. It ended up that they came back early, and that Craig got up and said something to the effect that "While hitch hiking Br**o did not live up to his responsibility as a man, and therefore our sister (Mary somebody?) has had this terrible thing happen to her". And because of this guys "failing to live up to his responsibility as a man", he was kicked out of the Corps. The girl, who did in fact return to Emporia for awhile before she just plain left, had been, as I suspected, raped . I remember seeing her sitting at the tables in the "lunch room" (my wife still calls it the "lunch room" which cracks me up-sounds like "Kindygarden"), and all I can remember is that she "looked like death". She never smiled, and she was in constant torment. And so, I figured that she must have been raped. Well, ya know, no details were ever divulged to us, and, she just plain "left the Corps one day", and I never saw her again, at the Rock or otherwise. I think I saw the guy a few times after that, at the Rock and such, for he was an excellent fiddle player and was always playing at the family tables. And ya know, I don't know any of these details. But I remember having a great sense of loss over our Corps sister's terrible hurt and trauma, and, I felt great sadness for the guy who had been her hitching partner. This guy, was a really sweet guy. He was very small, skinny, kind, and not real "macho". And since I didn't know the circumstances, how could I have "judged him" for "not being man enough" to ward off some crazed fuc*ing rapist who wanted to steal the soul from our skinny little sister? She was very petite btw. Neither of them were very "formidable", and what if the guy had had a gun? Maybe Br**o couldn't have done a damned thing! Except maybe have gotten his head blown off.. And so, does anybody know anything else about this? I have been curious for years!

Yeah Sky, that buckle thing was strange. I guess Bob wanted to show his respect, or, maybe at that time, being a human like the rest of us was doing a little sucking up. But I'd rather not think of him that way, because he was an awfully nice fella. But yeah, glad he got it back. And man! For Craig to have accepted it! How looney, and then to wear it around!! I still remember the look of surprise on those cowboys faces at that Gunnison rodeo in town. At first they were really surprised, and then as they were sitting together later, they seemed to be snickering about it. And, as far as "all of the guys lining up" to ride, well, that's just how us guys are some times, ya know? Guys have always been into "fightin' fu**in and foot racin", and I guess that guys in the Corps were no different I suppose. I guess it's a genetic defect. My sister calls it "testosterone poisoning", and to a degree, I think she has a point there. Sometimes we guys are really idiots...

The guy who drove us in his semi truck dropped me and my partner off on the circle drive at Emporia and gave us twenty bucks a piece. We had him in for dinner and we sang to him and he cried. His trucker name was "Heartbreaker". For him, giving us a ride was a huge blessing and a big event in his life. We told him lots and lots about Jesus Christ, and he really dug it, and he told us lots about his life. The stop at The Way C of E was a wonderful event for him and us and it was really a good and Godly thing for all of us. We, my partner and I didn't even really try to get him involved or anything, but rather just thanked him and sent him on his way. I remember feeling that I had done something wrong for not "hooking him up" with Wayfers, but we know about hindsight now don't we! :)--> Our CC, Richard Thomas told us that he didn't care how we got the money, but we had to return with it. We were not told to not spend it, but that we simply had to have ten bucks apiece when we got back. Richard even told us that if it were him, he'd spend it on purpose so that he would have to believe to get it back before returning to Emporia. But that would be our choice he said. But you were told you had to work for it huh? Weird. It may not be so with all of the Tenth Corps, but alot of us liked Richard Thomas and Linda MacDuffy. They were kinda like "nice cop/mean cop" at times, with Linda being the nice one. I don't remember what happened to anyone in our Corps who came back without the money. In our last year it was JAL and company, but once again, I came back with the money so it wasn't an issue. I can imagine the "red dragon" (Pat L*nn) being a real b*tch about it though..

Geez Hap, 25 years huh? And you are in Colorado? Did you used to rodeo? I am wondering if I know you. Not that I rodeo'd after all of that, but if you knew him that long ago, I am wondering if you were involved in the rodeo schools and all of that? Well, I surely hope that Bob is just living life to the fullest. Such a fine guy he was/is. Do any of his kids rodeo?

And hey, There is an uproariously funny book about rodeo if you want to laugh yourself to tears sometime. It's called; "Hey Cowboy, You Wanna Get Lucky?" by Baxter Black. It's not very long at all, and if you like to read you'll go through it really fast. It's about two cowboys on their way the the National Finals. They drink, get in fights, win and lose at the many rodeos, fall in love with different local gals, and you just gotta love 'em... Anywhoo, I recommend it...

Hey Hap, I am so glad to hear that Bob got his buckle back. Did he ask to have it back? Or did Craig just send it because he heard that Bob was troubled by not having it anymore? Are you still in contact with them? He was a really neat guy, and what an athlete! Nice to hear that the buckle thing had a good ending, and I'm glad to hear about your toe. Cool... And LindaZ, I guess the first times that did the rodeo thing, it was a freebie thing at Corps graduation. My wife, a Seventh Corps grad remembers this as well. But then it developed in to the "High Country Rodeo School" in which I was in the first one. I even have a certificate of graduation, and a group photo of all of us who were in it. JP was in that one as a matter of fact. But when we in the Tenth Corps graduated, we had a rodeo for our own entertainment (I guess that's why it was done), and all rodeo school grads were invited to participate, as well as anyone else that wanted to do it. So, there was an actual "school" (just like in the real world of Rodeo where there are "Rodeo schools"), and then there was Corps graduation Rodeo.

Congrats HC, on your son Bradley that is. Kids is wonderful yes? And, thank you for telling the tale. So sad so many were hurt, yet so fortunate no one was killed at the scene. So sad about Rachelle. I'd heard that she had comitted suicide, but I did not know she was one of the people in that wreck. And Sunesis, I thank you also for the quote Excathedra mentioned... And hey, was Sue Blackmore in that wreck? I had heard that she was. She was my sweet corps sistah...

That Charles Henry was something! He made his ride of eight seconds, and instead of running for the fence, I guess he raised his arms in victory as the bull came up from behind him and tossed him in the air! I guess he got chewed out for it, but then, he turned around again and rode the next one for eight seconds! Too cool.. And yeah Linda, Bob Donaldson had actually won the coveted "Gold Buckle" at the National Finals Rodeo (NFR! Yeah!), and what was really too bad was that Bob actually gave that buckle to LCM out of his respect for him! Oh man, I remember being terribly embarrased that Craig actually wore the damned thing. I'll complain about that aspect Sky, no problem! One time, when we were out at Gunnison, we went to a local rodeo in town, and Craig wore the buckle. And while there, some real cowboys noticed the buckle and asked him about it, and Craig said that a friend, Bob Donaldson gave it to him. This apparently confused the cowboys who could not understand why Bob would give it away, and why on earth would anyone wear it if they didn't actually win it? I wasn't part of the conversation for I wasn't sitting close enough to Craig. I could hear snippets here and there, and the buckle was the topic of the conversation. I heard Donaldson's name come up and etc, and I was really embarrassed about it. LCM didn't seem to be a bit embarrased either. No surprise huh? Does anyone know whether Craig gave the buckle back to Bob or not? I sure hope so! For no matter what Bob may have been thinking when he did it, I wouldn't doubt it if he sorely misses it. Winning that buckle is like getting The Ring from winning the Super Bowl. Yep, Donaldson was the real thing when it came to Rodeo

Oh come on, what a crock Sky. It was optional, period. It wasn't to see "who was really believing". If that were true, then Charles Henry Rix and very few others were the only true believers in the ministry. Even Cowboy Bob (Donaldson) told me that he rode at least twenty times before he began to make the full eight seconds and that he'be very surprised if any of us did. And, none of us did! Hah!. Rodeo school was cool. I rode a mechanical bull on my interim year, and I prayed that I would get the chance to ride a real one. And, it was Craig who really did the hyping, not VP. But I remember distinctly when the first "official" High Country Rodeo school was discussed at Gunnison, Craig said that if anybody didn't want to do it that there was not to be any embarrassment about it. He said he had done it and that it was one of the scariest and coolest things he had done and that if any of us wanted the same challenge, it was there for us if we wanted. So, I signed up and did it. And I am proud of it too. It was fun, it was scary, I got hurt (two cracked ribs a huge bloody abrasion on my chest, and I had a concussion for a few hours because my head whacked the ground), and I dug the hell out of it. Old "Strichnyne" was the bull that got me that day, and no one (at the HCRS ever rode him for more than three seconds), and at our graduation he kicked everbodies a$$. Strichnyne went on the be a major contender in professional rodeo. And I rode the next day after I got hurt and made seven seconds! Aggh! Almost made it! But no, Black Sabbath bucked me off in the end. And then, Donna Martindale found me limping behind the chutes (got my right thigh stepped on) and prayed for me there on the spot. And then she looked at me and says; "I don't know what's with you men , but you all are tough sonsabitches". Hey, I loved that. Laugh if you want, but extreme sports are things that people have done for years. It's not for everybody to be sure, but I am glad it came my way. I love the sport of rodeo and am proud to have been a part of it. And I'll bet you that most of the guys and gals that participated really enjoy it when they get to say publicly; "yeah, I used to ride bulls....." Man, it was a lot of fun seeing our friends out there riding those broncs and bulls. One gal, Linda Featherstone won the whole shebang by making seven seconds on a bull during our graduation rodeo! It wasn't an official win, but she bested all of us. Her bull bucked straight out and didn't spin or anything and ended up just running straight out, but man, we were proud of our sistah! I don't know, surely there were alot of things really wrong with the ministry, but, I guess it depends on how you want to look at it when it comes to rodeo school. To me, it was totally voluntary and the bad that came with it (aches, pains, injuries) were my own damned fault for signing up, and no one elses. Oh, yeah, there were tons of men who declined. In the overall scope, very few men participated.

I didn't have timne to read all of this, but it is very interesting. I have to go back to work, but will pick up again on page three. Thanks HCW. I heard about it, had some friends who were in on it (Kev Smith is an old friend), and so these detail are interesting... As to the question about another LEAD style program. Steve Armstrong is doing it, and has taken a number of young folks back to the summit of Sunset peak. He even has a written account of the first time he went back with his sons and daughters and some other younguns. It is an excellent account, and a program that I'd send my own kids on. I'm going to as a matter of fact.. You can read about it at http://www.cicword.com/Sojourn.htm I loved LEAD the two times I went. It was very good for me. It was horrible that the accident happened. I didn't know that Steve Spielberg was there. The girls in my WOW family witnessed to him out in L.A. It was nice to see how he handled the situation. But he's a hard headed German anyway... :)-->

Well ya know WN, I am particularly happy that this particular conversation has ocurred, because I happen to have a beautiful twenty year old daughter, who I have constantly reminded about how beautiful and special she is! She really is gorgeous, but, while she was in "the womb", she was accompanied by a twin, that never lived. The twin died off in the womb when they were four months old. And because of this, there was a side affect with our Meagan. As it turned out, Meagan was born with a "droopy eyelid". In reality, this is next to nothing when it comes to "twin death side effects", but, for a twenty year old young woman, this is not a small thing.During highschool, boys called her "hunch-eye" like as in "hunchback". Needless to say, I caught up with some of those little sonsabitches and read them the riot act, but it did take it's toll on her self worth... But I have constantly affirmed over the years that it only adds to her beauty, and gives her a "sultry look" like Lauren Bacall always had. As a result, she has always had a wonderful case of confidence and belief that she is A-OK.She has a fine and handsome boyfriend at this time as a matter of fact. And, he LIKES TO WORK! Which of course is a plus.... But as a matter of fact, as a gift, I am going to pay for her to have some corrective surgery, which, a local surgeon assures me will be a "piece of cake" as far as restoring her eyelid is concerned... :)-->

Outandabout, you just look too kind to have been an abusive Corps Nazi...And, I know I know you, but I still can't place your name! Do you know how to do the "Private topics" thing? I'll send you a message there and tell you who I am...

No I don't think that Wayfernot. He was only usiong women for his own pleasure. There ius no question about that. The first part where you quoted me about what I said about my wife was just a flippant and silly statement for the sake of humor. I believe that sex is meant for people who love eachother, as you do. But that other incident that I mentioned about the girl in my Corps was a little different, and I thought worth bringing up. For she really became such a fine and confident woman after that and it was her opinion and not mine, that her liberation came to her due to having "gotten laid". I was only soliciting other people's opinions ( particularly womens' opinions) here on this incident, and not projecting my own. I am sorry if this has been offensive to you.

Hi. I just posted some pictures of this black wolf that lives in the woods behind our house. This wolf actually romps and plays with domestic dogs as people are out walking their dogs along the trails back there. I posted them over at the "Every Picture Tells A Story" forum. Enjoy!

Wayfernot!, you said; No, I haven't, but I'll bet it would be fun to listen in! :D--> And Wayfernot, do you know me?

Ya know, I knew that gal all my first year as a dear friend. No, she wasn't faking it. She was crying some really serious tears when this all came out as I hugged her and held her. To me, she was a sweet sistah, with whom there was no way I could take advantage of her. Now, I must confess, I wasn't always able to "just say no". I did more often than not though.

Fair enough girls. I do know for a fact though, that once she was married at least twenty two years ago, she stayed that way and is still enjoying married life as a wife and mother to some beautiful kids. So, she didn't "wind up with men who likewise only view her as worth for her sexuality". I really was totally aghast when she told me thought she was ugly though. I don't know why or how she came to that conclusion, but it certainly seemed to disappear after she came into "the carnal knowledge". Isn't it normal to want to be desireable?

Yeah Wayfernot, she is an awesome girl. No doubt she pre-empted lots of guilt, condemnation, and confusion by "not going there". No doubt she "missed out" on lots of "inside information" when it came to "upper eschelon sordid sexual escapades", but I'm sure the trade off was worth it. Now, somone metioned that VP said that sex can sometimes be healing. Well, I do know for a fact that my wife "heals me" on a regular basis, and I am really thankful for that! ;)--> And hopefully I am as healing to her as she is to me! But I think we are ok there in that dept. But as far as sex being healing at times for single people, and VPW's statement, well. I would like to relay an incident. There was a girl in my corps who was just plain dynamite. She had a perfect little body, a beautiful face, was way intelligent, and was known for being scrappy, tough. One never messed with ______, without a serious challenge. At rodeo school, it did not surprise me at all when she showed up and distinguished herself quite well. When that old horse bucked her off, we thought she was going to single handedly kill the horse with her bare hands! One time, I took her on a date up in the hills where we went shooting up above Camp Gunnison. While there after blasting some beer cans, she made some amorous advances toward me, and, being a guy, I was very flattered, and very interested. But, since I didn't want to mislead her, I shunned the upturned face that was expecting a kiss. This hurt her feelings, and at that point I did all that I could to bolster her self confidence as a woman. But, she cried in my arms and told me that ever since high school, she always thought that she was "ugly" and that no guy would ever want her, and that was why at 26 or 27, she was still a virgin. I told her that this was a totally ridiculous idea and that she was an incredibly beautiful woman, and that all of the guys in our corps thought of her as one of the top ten knockouts at Emporia and Gunnison. She perked up at that thought, but still didn't appear to believe it. We remained good friends and we talked regularly, but she continued to think lowly of herself in regard to her own personal beauty, regardless of the fact that she really was "killer" hot. I'd describe her, but then some of you may guess who she is, and that wouldn't be cool. Then, we all went on our interim year. She went somewhere east as a WOW team coordinator. And when I saw her at the following Corps Week, I hardly recognized her. She was wearing some really nice form fitting clothes, low cut tops, and her overall attitude was one of; "Here I am you lucky guys! Step up to the plate and see if you measure up!" I couldn't believe it! I finally got with her and asked her what it was that brought about the change, and in three words, she explained it all. She said with a mischievous grin; "I Got Laid". Whoah! I said; "Really?" And she said; "Yep, and it totally changed my attitude about myself. I realized that I am someone to be desired and that I would be a very good "catch" for some lucky guy, and I am not worried about my romantic future anymore!" And then she winked at me and said; "Too bad you missed out!" To which I seriously felt somewhat left out. Dammit! (grin) But she went on to say how much it liberated her and made her feel like a woman, and how it was such a great thing for her, having been such a "prude" and a "polly purebred" as she put it. And so, this woman, whose name shall remain anonymous did later on find a wonderful man, and has been married with kids for years now. And so it seems as if IN THAT PARTICULAR INCIDENT, sex was a very good thing for her... Any of you other gals have an incident that could corroborate such thinking? Or was this just an isolated kind of a thing?

Ya know, WB, THAT is a great question. But I would not be surprised if something did grow, knowing that the power of Life is greater than the power of Death. And I think that it would be a wonderful testament to the greatness of Life being greater than Death and evil...

I agree Tom Tuttle. I guess I feel that some here just rehash the same old stuff over and over and continue to get "overly fired up" about stuff that they were "fired up" about many many moons ago. But I guess only God knows how much time it may take for a person to purge one's soul from the demons that harrass them. So, pardon me all of you all, I accept your admonishment Tom Tuttle..

LCM tried to fuk my wife one time before I married her. She was a single Corps grad on the field at the time it happened in 1980 or 81. He had been in town as the Corps Director, teaching the Corps at some advance or another. He invited her into his hotel room, and asked her for a back rub. She obliged, thinking that it would be a nice thing for her to do, and, she felt priviledged to do so. As she rubbed his back, he turned over on his own back and began to fondle her breasts. At that point, she jumped up, totally shocked, and told him emphatically that "It wasn't going to happen! You are married for God's sake! What about Donna?! I thought "It Is Written" is our motto!" And so she grabbed her coat and left the hotel room. Didn't give a .... what he thought of her. What God thought of her was all that mattered. Later Craig sent her a note of apology wherein he said that he didn't normally live his life like that, blah blah blah, and please forgive me.. Over the years after that, he was especially kind to her. I learned about that in '83 after I married her, so that's when I first believed that there was sexual misconduct in the TWI upper mucky muck level. But, I still thought of it as an isolated incident, and that Craig was simply caught up in a "weak moment". And besides, my wife was and is incredibly sexy! Yeah baby yeah! :)--> I am proud of her for "just saying no" though. She believed it was wrong according to "It Is Written", the Way Corps motto, and she took a stand on it against The Way Corps director's wishes! Hah! Stuck it right to him instead of the other way around! Now that was some kind of contradiction, no?

I think that they should destroy Auschwitz prison. Raze it to the ground. Destroy it's ugliness from the face of the earth. Then, plant a beautiful garden in it's stead in memory of those who perished there. A Peace Garden like the one in North Dakota on the border with Canadia. And do the same to Dachau, Ravensbruck, and all of the rest. No doubt an unpopular idea because it would take away the draw for those with a fascination for the macabre, but hell, it's history now, and no doubt there are archives overflowing with photos and first hand accounts. I say wipe those places off of the face of the earth so that anyone on the planet who still embraces those Nazi sentiments will no longer have a "shrine" to pray toward...

Yeah, but for us, the mess is over. Maybe we should count our blessings and walk away. Sart over. Not re-hash it. Let it slide onto the back burner so we can begin to rebuild, take care of the things in our lives that need attention, like our families and our loved ones... We are out. We are not IN. That's good, not bad...Thank God that something we were involved with 10 years ago is something in the past, and not somethineg we are involved in in the present...

Yup, I have heard of those guys. I was in the Tenth Corps. I was also best buds with Miceal Adams. In fact, he and I were as close as a couple of pals could be. Broke my heart when he "turned me over to Satan" or whatever. He and I were Lightbearers In Oklahoma and we surely had a blast. I took him horse back ridin (ridin double) on the back of this big old Percheron work horse, and all he could do was laugh as I made that big beasty gallop us across the plains. Man we had a time! We also almost beat up a bunch of Iranians at OSU campus who were laughing and cheering a photo of the Ayatollah standing on an American flag. That was great. We were seriosly going to kick their a$$es after I ripped up their photo, but they ran away. Bout five of 'em. Love those rowdy Irish. Miceal in particular. Guess he's still in though... :(-->

Hey P-Mosh, you say wait five more years and it won't be a problem, but, what will we say then? "The Tens"? Or once it's 2013, will we say the "The Teens"? Man, this is weird! How come this had to happen to us?