J0nny Ling0

And now Freud, you get to watch a Grease Spot Cafe roasting. But I guess at a Cafe, things get fried. Unfortunately you will see people fry people here... And, I might add, I think it not irresponsible of Oldiesman to bring up what he brought up. Rape is, in my book, a very heinous crime, worthy of castration or death. Even newspapers and newscasters use the term "alleged" when referring to someone who has even confessed to a murder, rape, or crime, until after there is an actual conviction. Why should we be less responsible than the news media?

Hey. I gotta brag a bit. Yesterday at a git together with some new friends here in Juneau, I finally met this guy I have been hearing about. First of all, he is the husband of one of my old shipmates aboard the M/V Matanuska. My friend Suzy had told me of her then boyfriend and how he used to play guitar for Black Oak Arkansas, a Seventies Southern Rock band. Ya'll remember Black Oak Arkansas (BOA)? They did a song called "Jim Dandy To The Rescue" which to me was an okay tune, but not that great IMO. But it was a pretty big hit and they made some real money on it. Anyway, this guy whom I met, "Dave" Somebody played with BOA in the 80's. I guess and was not one of their original band members. But, I heard him play with a local band here called "Moses Caine", and man he can really play that guitar! Very fast, and very strong when he jammed on an original of theirs which is going down on a CD, and it was song that could really "make it" as a hit in my opinion. And so, I finally met him at this get together where we had smoked ham, a smoked turkey, great food, and he and I, after becoming friends made a big funny scene trying our very first escargot., which he and I both said afterward; "Well, we tried it, and now we'll never wonder again, for we ain't ever going to eat this again!" Well, we didn't say it in unison or anything, but our verbal sentiments concurred... Anyway. He wrote this song called "Going Down To Mexico" which will be on this Moses Caine CD, and he said that he has one last track to lay down before that song is done. He said he needed a mariachi sounding trumpet for just a few licks in a few places, and do I know any trumpet players? Well, I told him that I knew one extremely well, and that he was talking to him at that moment....And so, I get to "go to the studio", and bring my son Trevor to play the harmony part on his horn, and we'll get to be on that CD together. Cool But what was fun was, my wife, ever so sweet and smart, could tell that I was really enjoying this new budding friendship, and snuck out to the car, went home, got her really nice Guild D-50 guitar, grabbed my harmonica belt, and my trumpet, and drove back to what amounted to a fairly good party of people having adult beverages and a good time. And so. She walks out on the deck with my trumpet in one hand (no case), my leather harmonica belt over her shoulder like some kind of a bandolier loaded with big shiny bullets, and her guitar case in the other. And it was cool. And then Dave and I practiced the horn riffs, and then started playing some really nice blues with me on my harps, as well as some "quasi country/Mexican" kind of music and it was a huge hit with all the folks there. He's a great guitarist, and we just had a fine time. An I got to play with as "semi-celebrity........" And hey, I'm not sure how all those italics got in there, but, it wasn't my plan...

Well Sigmund, Quite an intriguing thread here. And, I say, shoot man, if the subject ever comes up, and he seems to be penitent, why shore, help him. I would if I could. I have no fear of him at all, but I would certainly endeavor to listen to God to see if he is for real. But shoot, help him? I ain't agin it... My wife once knew him in Oklahoma back in the early seventies, and he was once a nice guy. I hope he can find peace again being just a "regular person" again...

I don't agree with that kind of thinking either Eagle. I could see a closet homo speaking against it publicly as a cover, sure. But if they were doing that it would be phony, known only to the guy doing it and to God or the guy's gay partner/s. But I do believe as some have pointed out here, Craig truly did/does hate homosexuals.

Beautiful photos! Thanks Eagle...

Like an Eagle: Thanks so much, and bring on the steak dinner! Whoo hoo! And here is a nice local photo for you http://www.pbase.com/ronhorn/image/53292039 I tried to post the image, but, I was unable to, being technologically challenged and all. Maybe you can post it for all to see. Great photo!

Oh come on. This is ridiculous. Craig wasn't/isn't no homo-sex-ual. The psycho babble here is out of control. Craig became alot of terrible things, but he isn't a queer dude. Craig came from rural Oklahoma with a "Muskogee-ish" mind set, and homosexuality isn't looked upon with much favor there. And biblically, since there is so much evidence agin it, he siezed on it knowing that it would be a good rallying point to "re-group the troops" after the shattering of his "Presidentiality" because of Chris Geer's assault on Way leadership. And so, he picked a salacious subject, got the old witch hunt going, provided salacious details on the disgusting aspects of gay sex (you remember The Way Mag article that included details like; "The average homosexual male ingests so many pounds of fecal matter...yada yada), and got all of the remaining faithful on a bandwagon witch hunt. And it worked, but only for awhile. Many here were on that bandwagon, so you know what it was like. Think of it. This makes far more sense than deciding that this is a "reverse psychology" conclusion where the vehemence against it was actually a "cover for his own homosexuality". There is an old saying; "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck." Craig actually spoke out against homosexuality because he actually didn't like it because he was not a homosexual. Call it homophobia or whatever, but I don't think he had a "penchant for penis". Now, does this make me a "Martindale apologist?" I hardly think so. Craig became wicked to the core, but I don't think he was a "poof in manly clothing." I don't think he is gay. Surely there are a ton of reasons to be pi$$ed at LCM, but to invent this allegation against a guy obsessed with wimp is ridiculous, in my own not so humble opinion. Things happened the way they happened, not the way we invent them after the fact... I guess though, if one is still really pi$$ed at him for his evil, it would be a good way to insult him and "get him back" since he detests homosexuality so much, should he ever come across this thread. But, I am interested in facts, not speculation. Now, if there are any guys out there who had a sexual encounter with LCM, and reported it here, I would reconsider my opinion on this subject. Come on guys, any of you do the "rump ranger thing" with him? Come on out! The womanizing is proof positive, the other is just unfounded, salacious, and scandalous speculation, in my (once again), not so humble opinion...

I changed my name here once because I got into too much trouble. And once, while here as Jonny Lingo, I also came here as "Frankee", the green, naieve, exhuberant kind of a guy that you would have seen at the Rock with a yellow bless patrol hat on standing on the corner in tent city pointing his finger as a "bless gun" at passersby and saying; "Bless! Bless! Bless!" Yeah, you remember those type of folks at the Rock. But, I let old "Frankee" drift into the cyber void and focused on being Jonny Lingo again. I only wanted to be "Jonny Lingo" because I thought it was funny, and something a number of people might have remembered from Corps training in residence... Now, back on Waydale, and possibly here too in the beginning of GS, I was "Curious George" Curious George was a character who would, in a benign way, simply ask questions of fellow Ex Ways, and then usual end the post with "just Curious....." I think Pawtucket is actually a woman! "He's woman baybee, yeah!" Possibly, "CoolWaters?"

Okay okay ModCat, but it's so funny to me I just couldn't help it, and it just seemed to fit so perfectly there! :)

I reallt don't think he was/is a queer...I think he liked wimp too much...

"Wimp!" I just love that! Are there any other words here that come out differently?

Ya know, the article seems to have it's valid points. When it comes to the destructiveness of porn, I can see the argument of it "desensitizing" one's sexual appetite. For instance, if one is married for a long long time, and his wife is no longer the "fold out" that she once was, and then consistently views the young women performing sexual acts in a porn website (and I am talking about adult "normal" hetero porn here), I can see how this could diminish one's appetite for one's own spouse. The same with women who view porn. What if her one time Adonis of a husband is now fat, lost his hair, can't get it up like he used to without Viagra, doesn't appeal to her anymore? And then she goes to a porn website, or watches porn videos and views all of the young studs? I believe it will have it's impact, although I do believe that men in general are more voracious as a whole, than women are. To be sure, we certainly have seen a major rise in sex crimes in the last twent years, and I think it is safe to say that the abundance of pornography and it's easy access has been a major contributer to it. And by the way, there seems to be more and more of the young female teacher seducing and having sex with 12 and 14 year old boy situations, no? Have you all noticed that? I think that the first big case of notoriety was that gal from Seattle, Mary Kay LeTourneau. Shoot, when I was a kid, all Playboy showed was breasts and maybe naked rear ends. And, we used to try and figure out those non-existent (as we now know) dirty words to Louie Lou-eye. And whoa! What a scandalous thing when Xaviera Hollender's book "The Happy Hooker" came out! Scandalous! But today? All of that is nothing. by comparison. The first explicit thing I ever read was page 28 of The Godfather, by Mario Puzzo. That's when Sonny does the job on a bridesmaid at his own wedding. But nowadays, big whup... Anyway, I am not really sure what the detailed detriments are, but, I am willing to bet that there are some serious detriments that come of it.... It does seem to be completely in opposition to the words of Jesus Christ when he said that if a man even thinks of having sex with another women besides his wife, he has comitted adultery in his heart already. So really, that should settle it. It doesn't define the consequences of it, but, Jesus does say that it is sin, and sin brings on bad fruit in one's life...

Agnes

wimp wimp wimp That still cracks me up

Oh geez, I knew the group hug thing was comin... :) But same to ya!

And sorry if acted frustrated in that one post. I was. But, no call for that. Love you Rascal, and I hope that spring break up brings you some good bass fishing! :)

Listen Rascal, I want to thank you for the compliments. And believe me, that incident I just shared was way hard to deal with. But, I made it thank God. But I want you to know that I am not defending VPW's actions. I am simply stating that I believe that he went from having a good motive initially to having a bad motive and horrible actions as his ministry progressed. I simply believe that he started out trying to help people, but ended up being tempted into destructive sin as he gained momentum. On this we disagree. Simple I believe, and this is documentable, that a person can be born again, have holy spirit, but still walk according to the flesh. This is why we are to be "spiritually minded", for; "To be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is Life and Peace." This, by logical deduction tells me that, I, as a spirit filled Christian, can be "carnally minded" which has it's accompanying negative consequences. For, why would we be told to be spiritually minded if it were not possible for us to not be spiritually minded? It also means that if I am carnally minded, and am under the tuteledge of one who is carnally minded (VPW in this case), that I too will have negative consequences, if I stop being spiritually minded enough to see what is really going on. We were all in the same boat and we all rowed toward the rapids and toward the falls. Some bailed out in the rapids and swam ashore, battered and wounded, yet some stayed on (in my opinion) and went over the falls while paddling furiously, but now, really battered and half drowned, have finally made it to shore and are getting that much needed oxygen. But I digress. I just think he went from good to bad, not from bad to bad, and that when he was still good, he put some teachings down that helped alot of people and that those teachings were not designed originally to take advantage of people, that's all. Hope that covers it. I guess the problem is, if I state this opinion here which runs at cross purposes with those who think otherwise, it sort of throws a monkey wrench into the efforts of those who want to make sure that all comers like Mr. McKeon see it the other way. But I guess this is the problem with an open forum where all points of view are welcome, yet not always agreed upon. Once again, hope that covers it. :)

Thanks Ex10. I really do appreciate that. :)

Hey there White Dove. Thanks. I just took a beatin over on a thread to Chuck McKeon in "About The Way", where they roasted him for saying things good about The Way. And so, I, not in total agreement with Chuck, spoke my mind, and of course got roasted for it. Oh well. Anyhoo, my address is: Kevin Nye 3344 Park Place Juneau, AK 99801 And I would be glad to help with any costs associated with the tape/cd. Loved the music of Takit! My wife used to date the drummer, and was on tour with them. Not the Garibaldi drummer though, but Willy Grove who played drums after Garibaldi left them. Anyway, she had a great time with them to be sure! God bless, Kevin

Okay. My hands are off. This site is truly dedicated to the destruction of anything good that Victor Paul Wierwille may have done for any people involved. And ya know, for someone who appreciates the good things that he did, I have been very liberal in admitting that he did some very terrible things. I just don't think he was the epitome of evil, as in "Hitleresque" as so many here do. But you know, there are many other sites besides GSpot that believe otherwise, making you all a minority, which makes the rest of us stupid, blind, and "cultists". For some reason, I have liked to come here. But I knew from the start that when I deviated from Zixar's original post that I was in for this. But ya know, I don't care if VPW got his info from BG Leonard, Starr Daly, Oral Roberts and others (people to whom he verbally gave credit in PFAL), he gave the info to me, and it changed my life. I know, I know, I'm just a blinded "denialist", but, that's where I stand. I can't get on your bandwagon and cheer your cheer of "crucify crucify!". I know I would receive lots of "attaboys" like Zixar here has if I did, and get lots of emotional handjobs boosting me in the eyes of y'all, but, it just ain't me. Sorry. I try to look at the whole picture. He (VP) was a man who **** ed up in a big way. But he helped alot of people too. A peculiar legacy, but one that I think is closer to the truth than; "he was a Hitler" from the start...

Yeah well, I only think that he began to twist it in his later years for his personal gain. You know ...., money, etc. I still think that his initial effort in teaching PFAL was to help people, and not to gain ...., money, and power. PFAL helped me immensely, and I will never recant on that one. For to me to recant would not be sane.... And, did you all know that the moderators have exchanged the word ...., for the word, "wimp"? What a funny way to censor the word "....". Go ahead and type the word "...." correctly, and see what you get. You'[ll get the word "wimp". Weird. Youall are getting way paranoid to censor words like that.... PFAL led me into deliverance., not "cultic blindness" like so many of you are convinced. I will never doubt that...

Well, I agree to disagree with you Rascal, on a number of points. King David was no Christian, but he was Chosen, and he comitted adultery, and then murdered in order to keep on getting that sweet bootay off of Bathsheba. And he paid dearly. King Saul was a major egotist who caused the death of many of his troops, including Abner, Asahel, and dear son Jonothan. And yet God in His foreknowledge chose him anyway. And Saul never really did repent. As we know, he died bitterly, comitting suicide. Solomon went completely whack over bootay, so much so that his heart was turned away from the one true God, unto the idol gods of the Queen of Sheba. Yes, that was wonderful Solomon, the wisest of the wise who humbly asked God only for wisdom in his early days. I wonder what kind of scandalous talk flew about the Believer community back in those days? None? I doubt that! And don't get all riled and think that I am saying that VPW was on par with David and Saul. I am not saying that. But I am saying that these wonderful men in the Bible did some similarly heinous things, yet started out as good men. And dagnabbit, don't misquote me Rascal. I did not say that the women of the Sixties did it to him, caused him to fall. I said that he was too weak to withstand the temptation that came with the sexual revolution of the sixties. When he was a kid, when my Dad was a kid, women wore long dresses way down below their knees, and it was way scandalous when Clark Gable said "Frankly my dear...." Times when they were younguns were prudish by comparison. Then during the late sixties and seventies, our youthful days, the gals were walking around in bra-less halter tops with nipples showing, and cut-off lil Abner blue jeans hung low on their sexy hip bones like today's belly shirts. Like it or not, those things are tempting to a male with a big sex drive. But a man, with character, will not allow himself to succumb, yet VPW did. He flunked that character test to the max. I liked it when someone here shared that Billy Graham has a policy that if ever he is to speak with or counsel a woman in his office, he would make sure that the door was always open, and that there was another man present. Anyway, we have all had this argument before. Sorry if I did not chime in like most everyone else in aggreement with Zixars original post. I liked his post, but I simply do not agree with all of it. Once again, I do not think VPW started out to decieve in order to "create a money and sex farm". It just ended up that way, as has multitudes of well meaning organizations that have gone before... I have seen it over and over before in Union politics in which I have been involved. People get involved in order to help, or stop some injustice from continuing. And then, they get on a payroll supplied by the Union Brothers and Sisters, and start trying to iron things out. But then the little perks come along, "doing lunch" with a lobbyist, going on Union business trips that happen to be in Vegas, etc. At first, they are appalled by it, but, after a bit, and a little more compromise, they start to partake of a little more, and then, for "the good of the cause" (which originally was an excellent cause), they too are snorkling around with all of the "glad handers", and others enjoying the fruits of someone elses labor. But they didn't start out that way, they gradually compromised their way into it little bit by little bit. But I will say, and I hope you will agree with me on this: I do not care if they started out honest or not. The end result is just as bad. The final product is just as criminal. Ya know, once, I was literally offered a woman for sex when I went to HQ to visit there back in '87 or so, and I was married at the time, and Craig knew it. I went to pick up a truck that I'd purchased during the Rock, but had left behind because I had my folks's motor coach during that Rock. And so, I showed up around three weeks after the Rock when they were going to have a bunch of weddings performed that particular weekend. And so, they put me up in one of the HQ grounds unit. John L*nder's as a matter of fact. Hah! And because I was a clergy guy, they assumed I was there to perform a wedding even though I'd told the switchboard person why I was there. Anyway, the Lind*rs were out of town, and so I got their place. So, I put my seabag in my room, and went to walking around grounds and down to the OSC to see who was around, and scare up the guy I bought the truck from. And when I came back around 8:30 p.m. to my unit, I was greeted at the door by this beautiful Italian American girl. Can't remember her name, but she seemed to be in her late twenties. Long brown hair, slender and cute. She opened the door for me, introduced herself and said that she had been assigned to me by Craig as my "guest buddy", and, she said; "I made you a really nice pasta salad that's on the counter, and if there is anything else you might need, a back rub maybe? Just let me know. I'm very good at back rubs. I'll be in the room directly across from yours". And she walked down the hall to her room. And, I was stunned. She was a beautiful girl, and the implication was really obvious to me about the back rub thing. I had heard about "Headquarters back rubs", getting naked under a towel, the full body massage with the "happy ending", and all of that. I hadn't quite believed my friend who told me about it, but at this moment, I thought that maybe it was true. Weird I am thinking. And so, I dived into the salad, took a shower and went to bed. And then, there came a soft knocking on my door, and when I answered, the girl was standing there in a "nighty thing" like a Teddy, asking me again if there was anything I might need like a back rub or something. And we were all alone! My God! My mind was swirling. Oh yes, temptation was knocking on my door big time. My thoughts were, if you'll excuse the term "epiluo". Oh how I wanted to just let her in and see where things might go! But I was married. I love my wife. But know one will know. A perfect situation. But it's wrong, a sin against my wife and God. But she is so pretty and obviously so willing, for it was written in her eyes as she stood there. All of these thoughts just swimming about in my head. But I looked her in the eyes and told her that; "No, I'm fine, but thank you", hoping that she wouldn't see how shook I was. And then she said; "Well, I just want to be a blessing to you as a man of God". And I told her that she already had been, and goodnight. I could tell by the look in her eyes that she knew that I believed it all wrong, and that she had some shame when I declined. And so. Did I sleep? Not for a really long time. I kept thinking of the delights beyond that door. All it took was a quick little decision, and certainly God would understand? Kind David had lots of wives and concubines didn't he? And besides, Craig sent her to me, maybe it's okay? But, no, it can't be okay. And, as I thought of it, I could really see the evil designs behind it all. If I had "gone for it", then I too would have been part of the "Club" as Sunesis once called it. And, if as an active member of The Way and a clergy guy who ever called LCM on the carpet for misdeeds, that situation which (thank God I declined), could have been used against me as blackmail. But could I, as one who had started out with a pure and simple heart fallen into that temptation? Heck, according to Jesus's words, I may as well have gone and done it anyway, for I certainly had some vivid mind pictures while laying there in bed thinking about her, comitting adultry in my heart. But, I am proud of the fact that I declined. But if I hadn't, declined this "favor" I could have begun to travel on down that same slippery slope that took these people (VPW,LCM, and the rest) down to the place where they used and abused people, particularly so many of our wonderful women, even some of you. Nope I believe ol VPW started out to help, but succumbed to temptation, just like so many others... And now to click post

Nice post Zixar. But, I don't believe PFAL was "bait" for sex and money. I think he started out with a will to help, but then succumbed to the same sinful desires found throughout history, both secular and biblical. And succumb he did. A very common scenario found in the Bible, as well as in politics, etc. He just couldn't handle all of the ego stroking that came with it, as well as the money that came in, and the women. The Sexual Revolution was in full swing by the mid Sixties, and he just plain dived right on in, using the power and status he had gained. He went bad. He just couldn't resist "snorkling in the cess pools of sin and iniquity". (I love that quote, but I can't claim it. It was spoken to me by G*brial Ort*z of the Tenth Corps, my one time pal). Many here started out in The Way just wonderfully, with nothing more than a desire to help and be helped. But then, the power acquired as people made their way up the way tree tainted them, and their sin nature decieved them into being a$$holes as well. I know full well that there are people here from the Nineties who spoked derogatorily of we folks who took the cue in the late eighties. We were spoken evilly of, called "cop outs", possessed, were shunned, marked and avoided, by people who post here right now. They started out wanting to help, but were deceived by the devil (or the world-whatever you want to call it), and ended up being quite vicious. But now, have regained their senses, and are quite wonderful. How many of you laughed at LCM's "fat lady jokes"? I know I did, and that was sin man, sin So man many of us got sucked into the sinfulness that tempted us when in. Just as VPW, in my opinion got sucked into it as his ministry began to grow. I still do not believe that The Way Ministry started out with a view to becoming a "sex and money farm", although I do believe that it became that way, hurting many people. Just a different point of view is all... Uh oh...I bleeve I am going to have to duck! :)

Also, I liked "Would You Like To Be A Slave?" And didja know, there is a rythm in there that is actually the tapping out of SOS. You know: ...---... Extremely clever, that was. I too wish I had a copy of all of that on CD. Don't know if I have it on tape anymore. I also really really loved Garibaldi's drum solo. Too cool, that...

Yentna not the Swentna? :) Great names up this away, huh? At least your cabin was not in Tititlik... :blink: He musta had his bunny boots on