J0nny Ling0

When I was in The Way, there was not an emphasis on doctors "seen as the enemy". In fact, just before I went WOW in 1976, my parents wanted me to go to an oral surgeon to have my wisdom teeth out because one of them had caused me some pain, but then backed away and all was fine again. And even though it would have cost us nothing with my dad's health insurance (he was a US Public Health Service officer), I refused, because I could "believe that my wisdom teeth would come in straight, and that there would be no need for me to go to a doctor". My mother, upon hearing this, wrote to Dr. Wierwille, and asked him if he were teaching the kids to shun the medical profession. His response was (and I still have the letter, for she gave me a copy), that "we in The Way Ministry definitely believe that God wills for us to be healed, and that God is able and willing to heal us and with a miracle if necessary. However, many of our youth in The Way are very zealous and do not use common sense at times when it comes to something like this. Tell your son Kevin to get on down to the oral surgeon and get his dental work taken care of." And so, my mother, with a smug smile, read me that letter in an "I told you so" sort of a manner, and admonished me to take Dr. Wierwille's advice. Well, as things progressed, I never did get the job done, and later, when I was out as a WOW in So California, one of those wisdom teeth impacted in a drastic way, and I spent three days in delirium with my jaw swelled up so big that I looked like a monster. My WOW Sistahs literally sat up with me at night and during the day tending to me with a cold wash cloth while I moaned in agony. Finally, we went to a regional WOW thing at a guy named Fuzz Patstone's "Good Seed Ranch" near San Diego, where a 7th Corps guy who was a dentist saw me, looked at my tooth and promptly wrote me a prescription for anti-biotics, as well as some codeine to take away the pain. And man, was I stoned the rest of that day at the Good Seed Ranch! I should have listened to Dr. Wierwille and gone to the oral surgeon though. I would have been spared some serious agony. And so, what does this mean? Well, I was the one who had refused a doctor's help, even though VP had tried to get me to go. So, to make the accusation that The Way treated doctors as the enemy just does not fit with my experience. Plus, that dentist who helped me ended up being the dentist at Rome City for a long time. Dan Somebody. Now, if doctors were to be seen as "the enemy" why would The Way have a DDS at Rome City taking care of everyone's teeth? I think that the emphasis in The Way was that we were to try and rely on God first, and if we didn't believe to be healed, then go and see a doctor. I think that this is why those who were nurses many times were the ones (wo)manning the Third Aid stations at the Rock, Corps Week, and on our campuses... Of course, this may have changed drastically after TWI II took root with LCM's draconian rule. I wouldn't be surprised by that one little bit...

Don't know of her whereabouts. I did hear that she married a hairy biker though. Man, that Francie! What a woman! I always loved her for her unconditional love...

Yeah, forgive him, love him and be kind, even though he wasn't. I have a big brother nine years my senior who is in the process of trying to cut my other brother's widow out of my Mom's Will. Yeah, my other brother died (the kind hearted one), and left behind a wife and two daughters. And now my oldest bro is trying to screw my sister in law and nieces out of my Mom's will which includes said nieces and sister in law. I threw a wrench into the whole thing by alerting my Mom that oldest brother wants to not split the proceeds of a $350,000.00 condo with my other brother's widow and kids. My oldest brother, thinking that I would "want the money" told me of how he planned on cutting out sis in law after Mom dies, so that he and I and my sister could make it a three way split. But, I told my Mom, and in her wisdom has decided to sell the whole thing now while she is living so she can be sure that my sister in law gets her cut. And now, my big brother suspects that I must have said something and is very bitter toward me, and so is his wife. And, no doubt it will get uglier. And I too believe that there are devil spirits who influence people, and I believe that my big bro is being influenced by various spirits. But, I assure you, there is nothing I can say to him that will help him have a change of heart. But I will continue to pray for him, and do my damnedest to not be bitter toward him, although the temptation is very strong. For this is a brother who was never ever very kind to me, but always condescending and rude. My other brother and I (He was a kind hearted pal of mine who really loved his "kid brother"-Me) could just never figure out why our oldest bro has always been so a-moral. And so, unlike you, sadly, I don't have fond memories of my oldest brother. He always just seemed to be a mean and uncaring mo-fo. But you John, do have good memories of a time when your brother and you had fine times. And you can maintain a connection with him if you want, by loving him and forgiving him even if it is hard to do so. I am inclined to think that he would not receive at all any of your advice concernig the possible spirit world you think he is dabbling in. But I am inclined to think that he could not ignore the kindness and love that you can continue to show him. He sounds like he does in fact have a loving heart in there, for, you have seen it. My older brother, even though he sent me a fairly vicious e-mail full of accusations, received a nice e-mail from me afterward, talking about the weather here in Alaska, what my kids are up to these days, and how I envy his living in the Virgin Islands which I always refer to in e-mails as "Paradise". You know the old "water off a duck's back" response. He was rude to me, I was kind to him. It is all I can do, and for now, maybe it's all you can do for your bro. And I would venture to say that the prospect of you being able to re-connect with your brother in a positive way is greater than the prospect that I have with mine. As far as being able to turn him away from what you deem to be a negative belief system, well, you are just not likely to be able to do that. He is a grown man and will believe what he wants. But to be sure, you can still love him, which is all any of us can do. "And they will know we are Christians by our love, by our love. And they'll know that we are Christians by our Love....."

Little Hawk. Way Builder Brother. God bless you on your Birthday! And may you have many many more!! Kevin

Well, I'm drinking ta night. Jim Beam. Couldja pour me another one on the rocks please? Well, it is early... :blink: And so, my opinion is worthless here...I did make a semi intelligent post earlier, but, it went un-noticed, no one commented....Oh well...Nitey night! Best to ya C-Man!

CMan, your post that started with this is brilliant and very honest. As far as VP is concerned, I just thought I would tell you what he'd said in my presence, just because I believe in historical accuracy. But whatever. He drank that damned Drambui till the day he croaked, and I saw him drunker'n a lord and it embarrassed a whole bunch of us in the Tenth Corps one time. And so yes, his hypocrisy was glaring, although he still believed in AA, for whatever it's worth.... But anyway, that point aside, your post was/is awesome, and I applaud you in your efforts to get and stay sober. All I can say is, be thankful for your success, do not fear to share the method of your deliverance, yet do not be surprised if not everyone is ready to hear it, for, their time "may not be yet". But, the words you speak may well plant the seeds of discovery for those who know of their addiction, and who want to at some time, deal with it. But just like for you, you finally came to the timing that was right for you, and at the right time for them, they may well remember your words. And if they never get honest and deal with it, they will no doubt "reap the whirlwind"... Selah, Brother...

First of all, Pond, you simply have no right to judge, for you have not walked in an alcoholics shoes. Be thankful you are not addicted to alcohol, but don't judge others who are. Your judgemental attitude makes you a very small person. Lighten up... And Nottaway. I personally know of three people who were hard core alcoholics in The Way. One woman very high up, and two, just "basic Way Corps" folks. And VP recommended that they go to AA and "get cleaned up" for they (AA) were the very best at helping people kick the habit. He didn't even need to tell them to not to embrace "the whole doctrine" of AA, for he knew that they were comitted to The Way and the Corps and etc. But he knew that AA really was capable of helping people. And so, for whatever that was worth, that VP recommended AA is a historical fact. And I must say that I was surprised to hear that when I did, because I wouldn't have thought that VP would suggest such a thing that seemed so "off the Word". I had been to a couple of AA meetings with a guy who was a regular member and who had started coming to my twig in Portland, Oregon, and had wondered if I had been wrong to encourage the new twig guy to keep going because it helped him so. But later when I had heard VP say it himself to one woman, and then the testimony of two Corps brethren that he had encouraged them to do so, I felt good about how I had encouraged that guy and had gone to the meetings with him. And so, as far as I know, AA is a very successful and powerful group whose soul purpose is to help those who have the honestyto admit that they have become powerless to alcohol and it's negative attributes. Now, LCM may have discouraged AA, but I am not familiar with it. But then again, maybe he discouraged it between the time I was kicked out (1989) and by the time he was kicked out. I certainly can picture him ranting over it though... Belle, I guess you were typing as I was typing... :)

Ummm, just for the record, I know for a fact that Wierwille recommended AA to a number of people who were alcoholics, with his personal admonition that "no one helps alcoholics overcome their problems better than AA". It's weird of course, for as we know, he was as hooked on that disgusting Drambui as any alcoholice could ever be. Maybe he hated it feared it, but I know he recommended it. And CMan, I too am praying for your recovery. Godspeed to you and may you have the greatest success... :) JL

Well, the weather service has forecast another 2 feet of snow by tomorrow night. My kids are totally thrilled with it all because they are both snowboarders, and there is a resort near here, forty five minutes from our house.

Who, that dude is from Mars man. I find it hard to believe that there are many American blacks who believe that stuff. At least, I surely hope that that is correct. And, for that guy to say that and there be nary a peep about it is a true barometer for the double standard when it comes to how our left wing drive by media reports things. I mean, that was so scary and damaging to me, that I think I should be able to sue him, his organization, and maybe even You Tube for allowing such poison to infect our lives like that! Ya think?

Two weeks ago, we received 35 inches of nice dry snow in five days. Then it cleared up and we had 10 days of crystal clear weather in the minus single digits at night, and above zero in the single digits all day. At night, there were at least seven different Northern Lights displays. Then it warmed up and we just finished getting another 18 inches of snow, ending yesterday. The City is still working hard to plaow us out. During the thirty five inch dumping, the kids actually got half a day off as a snow day! And, the Governor let the State Workers have half a day off that first day of dumping because the plows on our main highway hadn't been able to clear it up much at that time. And there were many a car and truck in the ditch that first week of snow, and I did see a couple in the ditch yesterday also. Didn't yall read about our "snow disaster" up here in Juneau? Didn't you see it on CNN? Surely they carried this HUGE STORY? Well, we Alaskan are used to it I guess. The only time Lower 48ers pay us much attention is when they want to tell us what to do with our abundant natural resources which have been made nearly untouchable by the Feds and our states elected officials and their constituants. But ya know, it is kinda weird when the main news stations will show a weather map of the contiguous US, with all of the temps and precip expectations, but never a peep about Alaska, your 49th state. Wassup wid dat? I mean, we really do fly the Red, White, and Blue. It really is a peculiarity to us up here...

Happy birthday Medic! And thank you for all that you do... Keep yer head down and yer powder dry!

It's okay EX, I am too thin skinned at times. I guess I am very passsionate in all that I do and say, and pay a price for it. I have never been one to "hold back" on anything, good or bad. Many people are afraid to say what they really mean, and I have always tried to be true to what I believe, sometimes to a fault. Peace and love and hugs to you too........................................................................ :)

Yeah. Jeff's im the Seattle Area. He's a good guy. Used to make me laugh to tears. He probably still would make me laugh to tears, but I'll bet he is far more tolerable now that he's gone from The Way. Aren't we all?

The

I am just saying; Skip the "court of law", I don't care about the court of law. If you skip it, you won't have to worry about whether the court says "forgive ot not forgive". Leave the government out of it. Take the High Road, rely on God to take care of "you and yourn" and move on down the line fighting the real battles in life like taking care of your wife, kids, mortgage, health insurance, and let the a$$holes be a$$holes, while you are not "amongst them". I love that kind of noble honor. Hold your head up and move on, for their karma will come back on them...I guess I still believe in spiritual repercussions, for, man and his laws will never right any wrongs. Lawyers fix things? Fuggedaboudit... And as you like to say, "whatever Jonny." I'm done here on this thread...

And so. Maybe we are getting closer to the issue here: Some believe, and maybe you, that the lawsuit which ends with a monetary reward, is a means of making a statement, an impact and a way to "put the hurt" (in his/her pocketbook) on the perpetrator of whatever crime. And that the one asking for money doesn't really "want money", but just wants justice. I believe that in the case of the company that hurt and killed people in the true life story of "Erin Brockovitch" (watch the movie if you haven't), that a lawsuit that was filed and won, and that this was a just way to deal with the crime. It really was an excellent way to make those money hungry bastards pay for what they did to American Citizens like you and me. I believe that the lawsuit suit filed against the ficticious insurance company in the John Grisham novel "The Rain Maker" (read the book) was just and a good way to punish the evil doers in that story. No doubt, the story mirrored many a real life situation over and over in these our United States. My wife's brother, as an attorney, became a "rainmaker" in Amarillo Texas, when he sued an insurance company for defrauding a large number of poor Mexicans who were wronged and robbed by an insurance company. He procured for a group of fifty or so, a handsome sum from a company who ripped them off of their dollars, and who did not supply the services promised. But, and this is a Big But, and where we diverge in our opinion I suppose, I think that there is a HUGE difference between having been given cancer from a Corporation that taints the water with cancer causing chemicals, and a stupid individual, who in his frustration because of his personal failure as a comedian, calls some black men the "n" word in retaliation to their heckling. Yes that "N" word represents hundreds of years of racism and inhuman crime. But, I still believe ( and we are simply talking about our beliefs here), their mind set, taught to them by our white society, is that "we should sue for money". I just think it's wrong. I just think that it is counter productive... And so, we disagree...

So, the Lawsuit is the answer as to how to fight it? I never said not to fight for it. I have systematically said that I do not believe that the Lawsuit is the way to fight for it. I believe that the law of the love of God in Christ Jesus (which includes forgiveness-and certainly excludes the "request for money") is the way to fight for one's cause. I believe that the lawsuit very often taints one's motives. Apparently, it has been determined by Society Today that the Lawsuit is "the way to fight for ones cause"? Well, I do not go by what Society Today tells me when it comes to methods in how to win a battle or a cause. The Media, in this case, has given these guys an awesome platform with lots and lots of attention in the news. And their cause is just and I believe in it. Except, too bad they have asked for money. I think it hurts them :(

Thanks for the love and the hugs, and I mean that. But, even though I have not been subjected to 300 years of racism, I still believe that love and forgiveness and "shining on" such an insult better serves the cause of exposing and helping to resolve the evils of racism. I believe it is better than "asking for the money". It's like saying; "Hey, I don't care about money, I just care about what is right. It was terribly wrong for Richards to do to me what he did, but he is an ignorant man and I forgive him and I hope he turns the corner some day". And with head held high, he moves on, above the fray, and untouched by the crime... My opinion.

I do have a dog in this fight. I live in America, and I do not like the fact that Lawyers have helped to make rampant lawsuits a way of life and a "hopeful windfall" for those who find a way to make money off of being offended or injured. I pay taxes. American courts cost all of us lots of money. I didn't like it at all when the woman spilled McDonalds coffee on her crotch and sued for two million and won. How much money did that cost whichever state tried the case? I don't like it that a woman I know sued the state of Alaska and won $250,000.00 because she burned her pinky in the french fryer on the ship I was working on. In my opinion she should have been more careful, and the state should have paid the medical bills and given her ample time off to heal. End of story. But oh the "mental anguish" and the subsequent big bucks!! And even though these black men men were thoroughly insulted, I do not agree that they should be awarded MONEY in a lawsuit for their plight, and that is my opinion. My values do not have to be your values. But in a discussion forum, we exchange opinions. This is a discussion forum EX10, and I simply do not agree with the fact that they want to sue. This thread includes the element of "to sue or or not to sue?", and I am commenting on it. And so, I am stating my opinion. It differs from yours, and I am not sorry. Am I supposed to agree with those seeking the law suit just because you say I should? I do not agree with it, and maybe you do. But I won't agree with it just because they were hurt by that guys' terrible words. I think they would be making a far bigger statement by holding their heads high and shining it on, making themselves far far above such blatant bigotry. I would respect these people more if they did that. To go for the money just seems to taint their cause. Throws a shadow over their integrity, a shadow which would not exist if they just forgave and pittied the poor redneck moron for his activities as a "lewd fellow of the baser sort..." P.S. I had dropped my desire to comment anymore on this, with Socks and I making our peace, agreeing to disagree, until I read your post. Then I just had to come on back. But now really Sis, we do come here to debate and comment, do we not? I love you, and think of this as a bro/sis spat. Love you...

Somehow Seth, I think that you are able to type in your own words on the photo of the marquis?

Well hell, now that you mention it, maybe he should play the lead role in "Shaft"...

I'm not Amish either. And that is why I called it the "near impossible". I don't think I could do what they did either, were it my child or friend's child. But, I do believe that what happened to the fellas at the comedy club is a far cry from what happened to those Amish folks. And once again, the statement made by the Amish really did rock the Nation, with their unparalleled(sp?) forgiveness. Unparalleled amongst humans that is...

Damn, Socks. This is bad. I don't like to not agree with you! Cuz I love you man. I agree with everything you say on this, except I guess the law suit thing. I worked for years as a merchant seaman, for various American flagged shipping companies, and the sole reason for many American shipping companies re-flagging their ships under the flag of foreign nations is because of law suits by U.S. crew members. And this of course results in a loss of jobs for American Merchant Marines. The US has the smallest merchant fleet on the planet, with Liberia being the biggest. And the "Liberian Merchant Marine" is not really their countries merchant fleet, but rather a collection of American and other western nations' merchant ships flagged under Liberian registry. And I have seen people smell the money and go for it, even though their "damages" were not as they claimed. Law suits have their place, but I don't see it here. I think that if they just let it run off of their backs like water off a ducks back, forgive Richards for his raging racist tirade and then drop it, the impact of their statement would be even greater than a law suit, for the news media would run that story to the max also. Kind of like the way those incredible Amish people did what I think would be the near impossible: Forgiving the murderer of those beautiful and brave little girls, and then reaching out to this twisted man's family with love and forgiveness. That statement was huge and it rocked our nation. I'm sorry man, but the lawsuit thing has, IMO, put a major hurt on our society, and our economy as well. And so for me, and I will repeat that the behavior of Richards was reprehensible, I think it was a mistake for the victims of the epithets to go for the money. But I guess as the say in Fronce; C'est la vie!

I don't think he he was trying to be funny at that point either. I think he was retaliating and the thinking that was in his heart came right out of his mouth. I don't think it was "shock humor" or whatever they call it. And, it was reprehensible. I am not sure that I can clarify myself any better. But, I still don't think that suing the perpetrator helps the cause of exposing and maybe curtailing racism. I think that the victims, in their righteous indignation would have been way more effective if they had simply, held their heads high, and "walked on", placing themselves way above such an act of low life bigotry. Once again, I think that their effort at monetary compensation taints their character and their effort to expose. And also, I am not really concerned about whether or not Mr. Richards absolves himself or not. But most likely, it's probably true that this incident has shaken him up and hopefully will cause him to think about what he harbors in his heart. And, no doubt, Richards will be able to live off of "Seinfeld" very comfortably for the rest of his life. That is, if he is smart, which, he very well might not be...