J0nny Ling0

What friends?

Lead can be very dangerous. A shipmate of mine almost died from lead poisoning. Yeah, he had an affair with another mans wife, and that other man shot him. That kind of lead poisoning can be very dangerous.

...this sinister doctrine.. And Jesus said; "And all things whatsoever you ask in prayer, believing, you shall receive". I like Jesus and his words.

I am just trying to say that "$ hit Happens" when human beings are involved, that's all. When we get all the humans out of all human activities, we will not have humans being hurt. And Tonto! Ugghh! That was disgusting! And, I don't remember that from CF and S. Was it really there, and I just don't remember it? Uggh?

24 killed at Outward Bound. http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventur...ward-bound.html

But she didn't EXcie, and it was a crime. I tried to talk to her once, but it seemed as if she wasn't having much to do with men at that time. Can't blame her for that. She didn't seem to want to talk to anybody. Can't blame her for that either. But, I would never have let those guys hurt her like that. Women have been predated upon since time immemorial in that manner, and when on the road, your woman/woman friend/daughter should be treated as if she were a snowy colored bunny rabbit with wolves about waiting to devour her. And she should never be left alone. Anyway, f all this. I am tired of arguing with you all. I am glad to have had many conversations with this same gal in the last couple of years in PMs and am so thankful to have learned that she has been able to come back to a life of relative normalcy and considers herself to be on top of the world. She is my friend, and doesn't regard me as a sick cave man.

A.) No. I already said that long ago. Read the thread.B.) No. But since I already said that there should not have been a requirement for it in the first place, your question "B" is moot. It never should have been a requirement in the first place. Once again, read the thread. DMiller asked: He was our Corps coordinator, along with Linda MacDuffy. He is the one who called our names out to go LEAD. And he is the one who gave us his rap on safety, and etc. RT was a United States Marine (once a Marine always a Marine), and was a pretty logical guy, IMO. And, I mentioned him without an explanation as to who he was because I was responding specifically to Doojable, who knew him as I did. Sorry I didn't clarify. I think RT was in the 5th Corps. I liked him. He was a no nonsense guy. Many in my Corps didn't like him. But many did also. Unfortunately, LCM was there at Emporia for the first six months of our first year, and RT had to live under the "watchful eye" of Craig, which no doubt hampered RT's style. But we all know how dominating LCM was.

AND, Doojable. I SPECIFICALLY remember Richard Thomas saying that we should NEVER separate, and that we should ALWAYS keep going forward down the road, no matter what. I don't know where you were, but I know for a fact that the guy who left our Sister in that truck quite specifically broke that RULE of common sense, and that RULE that Richard T specifically told us from the start. And so, if you never heard it, I can't help that.

Yes, hitch hiking is very dangerous. So dangerous that that dude should never have left his Corps Sistah in that truck with that trucker. That's exactly how one of our sweet Corps sisters was violently raped. Her hitching partner, the GUY, did the exact same thing. I would never ever do that. I'd say; "Mary Jane (or whoever), I have to take a leak. Come on with me and wait in the coffee shop".

Excathedra said; I chose the word "celebrate" in a direct and contrasting response to Doojable's choice of the words " to not celebrate" where she said; Groucho said; Groucho, the negative chicken came first, and then the positive egg. Check out the very second post in this thread.

I was a Merchant Marine when I was sixteen. I planned to sail the world and the Seven Seas ("everybody's looking for something..."), and I managed to do a fair amount of that by the time I got in The Way when I was eighteen. But I had planned on working my way up to Chief Engineer on ocean class vessels, but my fifteen year "time out" in The Way put a halt to that. I did go back to sea as a number of you know, but it was a bit frustrating to meet guys who were my age and younger who had attained 2nd and 1st engineer status and pay grade, while I was just a "mere Oiler" at the age of 36. However, I did work my way back "up the hawse pipe" and retired out of shipping as a Third Assistant Engineer, which is really, pretty cool, for that means that I had attained the coveted LICENSE, Officer in the US Merchant Marine. But, I did quit shipping out because of the toll on my wife and kids while I was away so often. Had I stayed with it when I was eighteen, and not given my life to The Way Ministry, I may well have retired as a Chief Engineer like a friend of mine did just this last year. He was Chief of a Sea-Land container ship, sailed the whole world, and now at 53 has a fat retirement, and a nice home near Miami, and nice cottage in the Florida Keys. He is a tarpon and bonefish fisherman now, soaking up the sun and taking trips around the world. My daughter, however, at the age of only 22, is an Oiler aboard the M/V Matanuska, a ship that I was Oiler on for three years. As a matter of fact, she even lives in my old crew quarters and listens to the same salty hiss out that same old porthole that I loved to leave open even throughout the wintertime while heavy blankets kept me warm while I slept while off watch. Ahh, now that puts a lump in my throat, to think that my daughter is on the fast track that I got of, and at a very young age. Career wise, she has the world by the cojones. She's single, loves her job, and takes home $3800.00 a month plus an excellent heath insurance plan and an out of this world retirement plan. It's very hard to be the state of Alaska's retirement plan with the Alaska Marine Highway. It is awesome. And so, I am proud of that, and my being involved in The Way didn't hinder my passing on that wonderful lifestyle and career on to her, thank God. And so, I don't regret my time in The Way, as many do, but, I did throw a perfectly good career to the wind while out "jousting with windmills" in a Quixotic fashion. I guess I will cherish all of my adventures I spose. I did manage to sail five of the Seven seas though, and still sail the North Pacific's Alexander Archipelago from time to time, albeit in a little old 24 foot sport fishing boat while in pursuit of the wily pisces, and deer, moose, king crab, shrimp and dungees...

I choose to celebrate them publicly, not hide them from those who ask questions about it. If I didn't celebrate them publicly, then those who ask about them publicly would only hear the negatives. And remember once again that I did say this, and I'll say it for the second time::

That "ball-throw" thing was in fact really weird. But there were and are many many positive thing that I got out of the class, like I have already said. I really was thrilled with the fifth session and the revelation (to me for the first time); "Christ in you Christ in you Christ in you! The hope of Glow-reee!" Never heard that before anywhere in Christendom till I got in The Way and took that class. And I like/ed that! I about dropped my Good And Plenty all over the floor!

Hey there Out There! Happy Birthday! The Big Five Oh eh? I just hit that back in May, and it's just fine. God bless you on your birthday Brother, JL

I followed that whole thread DMiller. But I didn't think anyone was killed in that accident, werew they? I do remember that a gal comitted suicide later down the road though.

Well to tell you the truth Doojable, I certainly would rather have had Jesus running the Way Corps and the LEAD program, no doubt about that!Now, I am still seeking clarification on something: I know that one person died while hitch hiking to Tinnie. But, there have been statements like which seems to indicate more than one person. And so, was there more than one person who was killed because they went LEAD? Just wondering. Obviously, one is one too many, but it seems that the statement that "some people died" seems to be an effort to indicate "more than one" so as to increase the evil of said program. And now, with all of that said, make sure to go back and read my posts where I did in fact say that I thought that errors were made, that certain people should not have been given leadership positions at LEAD, and that I thought that LEAD should have not been a requirement in The Way Corps training program, but rather an option like the High Country Rodeo School, a school from which I proudly graduated, after having th $h!t kicked out of me by none other than "Old Strychnine" an 1800 pound Brahma bull. But, I did get seven seconds on him. Dammit, I almost "made the ride". Missed it by a second. S h it...

ExWaycorps, That was an awesome post. Very well put. Thanks. I feel the same way. But, your pig photo is VERY disturbing. Worse even than Vickles "pee pee time" avatar. And, as far as the three things mentioned in the first post, I still believe them, however I too believe that we saints will be here in paradise on earth as opposed to being in the"air" forever. Another one principle in PFAL that has always been a major blessing to me when it comes to reading the Bible is that "punctuation is devoid of authority. "Verily I say unto you today, thou shalt be with me in paradise". OR, "Verily I say unto you, today thou shalt be with me in paradise". What a gem that was to me, for, there you have two doctrines, depending on where the comma is placed. Take out the commas which were never supplied before the English, and voila! "Verily I say unto you today thou shalt be with me in paradise". No immediate "life after death" found in that verse. Cool to me fore shore... But, I always had a problem with this one: "Ek ballo. Ballo-ball-ball, throw!" Now how does one get the English word "ball" out of the Aramaic word "ballo"? Is the word "ball" really a modern version of the ancient word "ballo"? Now to be fair, there are some old yet younger Greek words that have modern counterparts, such as the word "idiotes" and the word "idiot". But does "ballo" mean "ball" like the one you throw? Hmm....I dunno, I "trow" not... Anyone care to tackle that one? P.S. And, I am so rusty on alla that, that "ek ballo" could have been Greek. But I had remembered it as Aramaic. Please feel free to correct me if I was wrong...

And yet, we went into the Corps training program knowing that we were supposed to do as we were told. We volunteered. In the United States Military, the same approach is expected. If a person wants to go to West Point, Annapolis, or, the United States Merchant Marine Academy (a place dear to my heart), you are told what to do for your training. And if you don't do it, you are either out of there, or worse, punished with cruel physical punishment like extra and grueling calisthenics. And because this is acceptable amongst most Americans as "what you get" when you "are in the Army now, yer not behind the plow", I don't see why there are so many objections to the minimal forms of disciplined living we were expected to live up to in The Way Corps. And, when I went into The Way Corps, I was expecting this, and was surprised that it wasn't as grueling as I expected. But, I expected it, because I learned from Way leaders before hand what to expect. And thus, I went in with eyes opened. Ah well, anyway, on LEAD anyway, I loved it.

Waysider, I agree with everything you said. I just pointed out the positive aspects that I derived from the program, and I am glad I had that opportunity. Yet, I suppose that if they had shut the program down before Kenny Bardin was killed (which was before I went LEAD), we might still have Kenny Bardin around today. But I also see that "regular life" (life outside TWI) is filled with all kinds of tragedy also. Life is weird I guess...

Hey Excie, I have no idea why things happen to some and not others. I have heard over and over in the "regular Christian world" of people praying and getting desired results, and of people in their same churches praying and then the "prayed for one" dies. I know that in these horrible kidnap cases, many horrified parents pray, only to have their child's body found somewhere. And yet there are those few cases when the child is rescued alive, and the parents go on record as saying something like "We never lost our Faith that God would bring our child home alive. We never gave up hope". And I think to myself when I read of these things; "Geez, I wonder what the other parents whose children were killed think when they hear of this?" And so shoot, I just don't see those bad things that happened on LEAD as a whole lot different than so many terrible things that happen in this old world. Why do these things happen? I don't know. But all of the blame, well, I just don't know. It just seems fruitless to spend so much time "blaming"...

Okay, thanks Waysider for that answer. That is why I asked. I remember her story from the LEAD Accident thread. So sad.

Yes, and this happens everyday in America and across the world. People get hit by cars, killed in car wrecks. A young girl had her feet cut off riding the "Superman" ride at a Six Flags America amusement park just last week or so. Sick men rape women and even little children it seems every single day. I know it seems wrong to mention anything positive here about one's experiences in The Way, or on LEAD as in this case, for it seems to divert from the status quo. But, if positive things happened to me and others, I think that people like Hooner deserve to see both sides of the story. And I know many many who outright loved their time on LEAD and are thankful for the life's lessons learned. I chalk up that arrogance that Out There speaks of as just plain "youthful arrogance", novices lifted up with pride, and mistakenly placed in that position of leadership. For, the folks who ran the sessions when I went LEAD were kind hearted and very heartsy. They had the individual students best interest in in their hearts and genuinely helped them out, me included. And so Hooner, there were good things about it to be sure. And, there were also bad things about it too. Certain people simply should not have been in place as instructors. Certain people should not have bee required to go LEAD. In my opinion, LEAD should have been like the rodeo school thing, where it was optional for those who wanted the challenge. And yet, when I went into The Way Corps, I did it with my eyes open. I knew about LEAD as part of the program (and the hitch hiking part too), I knew that I would be challenged to work hard all day, stay up late studying, eat less than I normally did, run and get aerobics points, and study the Bible lots. And so, I went in knowing that it would be very hard for this lazy boy here, but, I also had the attitude of "bring it on, I want it, that's why I'm here". But that was just me. But I don't think I was alone....

I was really bummed to find out that a total of 24 people died on Outward Bounds adventures. Amazing that they are still in business at all. I have a friend who did a one month thing with them way back before he was involved in The Way, and it really helped him alot. Plus, he came back so physically fit from all of the hiking and the healthy food, that when his family got together for the annual Thanksgiving day football game, he was in such good shape, that his brothers and cousins feared to tackle him! I remember that in the LEAD group that I was in the first time, we all lost lots of weight, and the girls in particular were thrilled! It had been cold and snowy, we'd hiked very hard up to a place called "Liberty Rocks", and when it was all said and done, when we washed our hair in a creek before we hit the hitch hiking trail, the girls were all marveling at how there pants were now so baggy. And the few husbands in the bunch were happy too, and I lost nineteen pounds also! Not that I needed to lose any weight in that I had started out at 174 pounds, and being down to 155 was purdy darned little for me! But it did feel fine. Shoot, if I could only get back to even 180! I remember that we were eating a fair amount of the grains and nuts referred to in the Bible as "pulse", which Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego insisted upon eating when they were in captivity to King Nebuchadnezzar, and how "there countenances shown" after so many days of eating the better food other than the king's "dainty meats". And by george, when we got back to Emporia, the folks back there were amazed at how we looked. Of course the weight loss may have been what amazed folks. I really did like the cleansed feeling that I had after that session to be sure. And so, was there more than one person who died on LEAD besides Ken Bardin? I had only heard that there was one fatality. Were there more?

Sho nuff OT, and, too bad about K. Smith. He used to be a pretty nice guy. Maybe now that he has long since been "out" he is a nice guy again. His older brother Donny always seemed to a really nice guy...

I know that the hitch hiking was dangerous. But I also know that it was an excellent aspect of it, for me, my partner, as well as for many others. One guy, Gary and his partner were picked up by a man who was one of the co-owners of "Dennys" restaurants. The guy was so enthralled by what Gary and his partner were doing with the LEAD program and The Way Corps as explained by Gary, that he turned in his small rental car, rented a Lincoln Continental, drove them to Tinnie, and while on the way there, decided to pay all of Gary's Way Corps tuition. His hitching partner, a gal didn't need it, for she was already paid up. They also ate for free at a couple of Dennys's. And so, for Gary, it was one fine experience. Some the best times on both sessions for me was being on the road. Once, these two old oil field "rough neck" cowboys (that's an oil field term) picked me and these two 12th Corps gals up in their pick up truck near Clovis, New Mexico. The old boys had a nice new pick up with a cap on the back. And also in the back they had a big mattress with their sleeping bags rolled out nicely in a ship shape manner. Well now, the girls were tired, as was I, after a long day on the road, and elected to sleep in the back. I, of course wouldn't have had it any other way for safety's sake, for there was no way I was going to be in the back with just one of the girls up front. And so I sat up front with the old boy Texans, and we had a fine time of it! For, out from under the seat came a bottle of Seagrams Seven, as well as a big bottle of Seven Up. And with plastic cups, me and the non driver got a pleasant buzz on as I listened to these two old timers tell me Texas/New Mexico/Wyoming oil field stories. Lots of rattle snake stories too. One of them had a rattlesnake hat band, which was too cool. And we had a blast! It was like; "Hey, I'm out in The World! This is fun! I'm with some real hard workin Americans" The two old guys had a rule that the driver didn't drink. Not until it was the other guys turn to drive at a later time down the road. They were funny about it and got into a mock argument with their Texas accents about who actually had the last turn at it. And when we rolled into Roswell where they let us off, when the girls woke up, one of the gals with whom I got along quite well, Karen G, noticed that I had the smell of booze on me and says; Hey you lucky dog! You guys were drinkin!" And I grinned and winked and said; "Yup! And it was fun!". The old boys caught a motel room there in Roswell, and we hung our thumbs for the last leg of the trip. And the next thing ya knew, we snagged a ride to Tinnie, all of us in the back of an open bed pick up, and there we were with only fifteen minutes from being late. The bus was there waiting, and everyone was relieved to see us for we were the last hitching group to make it in. And so, everyone made it on time, safe and sound. It was grand...