J0nny Ling0

It doesn't matter if VP knew his sins or not, just like Jesus forgave those who sinned against him, yet didn't even know they had sinned against him. Yet Jesus, in his AGONY, forgave them... And so, all that was to you Rascal was my "impassioned little speech". Fine. Mock me. Live how you want, and my concern be damned...

When Jesus was on the Cross, he said; "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do". Only one of the two (or four, however you want to look at it) repented to Jesus. The others "cast the same into his teeth". And yet Jesus said "forgive them Father (plural) for they know not what they do". And so. Have you ever been stripped naked and spit upon? Whipped with a cat' o' nine tails? Been beaten in the face by gladiatorial combatants with a bag over your head and asked; "If you are a child of God, which one of us punched you!!??" Have you ever endured such TORTURE? No, YOU HAVE NOT and you know it! Yet Jesus said; "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do".* His is the example to follow! NOT yours Rascal. Not Yours Excathedra. Not your humiliations Kevin (me), not anybody elses but the example of Jesus, OUR LORD. It is in forgiveness that we can have peace. Peace in our hearts. Peace in our daily lives. YOUR daily Life. Have you ever seen the bumper sticker that says: "No Jesus, no peace. Know Jesus, Know Peace". Man I am telling you, to go the way of Jesus is your only deliverance! I am not trying to hurt you. I am only trying to tell you that forgiving and moving on is THE ONLY WAY to survive, to move on, to be at peace, to be HAPPY. *And now the asterisk: If Jesus said: Forgive them Father for they know not what they do", then by sheer logic (sorry for that PFAL term), those that were being asked to be forgiven DID NOT APOLOGIZE to Jesus! For, "they knew not what they did"! How can you apologize if you did not even know that you had made a mistake?! Yet Jesus asked God Almighty to forgive them, even though they didn't even know that they were in the wrong. Jesus forgave them even though they did NOT apologize. And so, doesn't the Written Word have ANY sway on your minds? I didn't present any biblical research here, I just quoted some Scripture that we all say that we believe, that's all. Oh well, peace be to you. You know that I have been averse to certain opinions here, but even though you may think that I am just wanting to be combative, it really isn't true. I want you all to be able to move on, to be FREE, to be blessed and happy and not tied up in the knots and bondage of the past. I am not an evil man who just wants to "win an argument". I just want you all, who have suffered a really bummer time from the past to be able to move on and be freed from the sadness from those times that can never be re-gained. Please, "Consider These Words..." With Love, JL

Sadly, you miss the point. I know that they were as corrupt as you say. But to spend one's life immersed in the past and allowing dead men to hurt you is beyond sanity, in my opinion. And, like it or not, both God and Jesus have instructed us to forgive those who have trespassed against us. Seems to me that the "winning combo" is to forgive and move on....

No one should be cut any slack. Anyone who has a ministry that even remotely resembles The Way should be persecuted with the hounds of hell and be utterly destroyed. Their character assassinated. No room for forgiveness, nothing. You just stop yackin' about anything else. And those whose lives were ruined by The Way should commit themselves to spending the rest of their entire lives re-living those painful memories so as to be able to stay in a state of mind which will enable them to stay in the hunt, searching out anything remotely resembling The Way and tearing it apart...

Whoa. Who woulda think it? Giants beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl. Didn't think it would go that way. Happy for the Manning brothers though, and for their Dad, Archie. They all must be tremendously proud about now...

Oh, go to bed, will yah?! But really, even though TWI never seemed to protect itself from liability suits by way of smart policies, maybe this was one area where they were trying to keep "the WOWs from getting hurt or into trouble". Statistically, more bad .... happens after midnight, than before midnight. So maybe that was what was behind that rule. I always believed that, and have been willing to accept that at face value... And so, you all got drunk a time or two?" I did that a coupla' times myself and even ended up stumbling down Hollywood Blvd one time trying to place my hands and feet into guess who's footprints and hand prints? Go on, y'all who know me. Who would Jonny Lingo just love to place his hands and footprints into? Take a guess. I know Groucho would know....

Hamm, you need to chill out and have a nice hot bowl of squirrel stew...

Roy, You are a dear Brother. And with a holy kiss blowing from me your way, Kevin

You too Oak... The heads up on the "epiluo word" was good for me. But now, I am going to have to look it up for myself, for, I just can't take your word on it (like I did VP) "jus cuz you said so" ya know? Hah! I'm sure you respect that. Anyhow, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on it. BUT, I will look it up... JL

I was curious as to what kind of reaction I would get. It's been interesting.

You don't have to hunt them down to find out their motive. You can say anything you want to in a public forum without knowing anything about them! Just to me, personally, were I to say anything negative about someone, I'd rather have the facts first, that's all. But that's just me...

No, it wasn't a hoax Excathedra, I just pointed out that VPWs grandson VPW has started what appears to be some sort of fellow laborers kind of a program... P.S. The sheep are the participants, and the logs represent the devil who crushes them all with fire. Yeah, that's the ticket!

Oakspear, here is my quote from that post: And here is what you said about that: Since you are being nit picky about your pet peeves, I guess I'll notify you, since didn't correctly read what I wrote, that I never said a word about "hunting" dogs. However, if I were referring to "hunting dogs", I would have said "deer hunting dogs", or "coon hunting dogs", which are in fact turned loose to pursue and drive the deer into the hunter for a shot, or tree the coon for the hunter, a type of hunting I never respected by the way. And if things don't work out correctly, the dogs will gang up and kill the quarry. In my mind all of these years, I have thought of that illustration as a bunch of untrained dogs filled with blood lust running a scared deer to death, until it can run no more, and then pouncing on it like a pack of wolves and viciously ripping it to shreds. So, leaving that illustration aside, even though I think it an excellent illustration, regardless of your opinion of it, I'll put it yet another way: It seems to me that certain people here want to let their "tongues" (words I guess, for we are typing) run rampant with unfounded accusations and snide comments about someone they do not know. Now, is that stated good enough for you and clear of any "Waybrain-isms"? Call it whatever you want dude, I don't really give a rats azz. As for me, I think I'll prefer Eyes Open's opinion on the matter, and my own, and not the opinions others here have expressed concerning dis guy. I was judged when I was in The Way all of the damned time, and the facts were never asked for nor considered in situations, because the "overseers" had already "spiritually discerned" what was "really" going on, and I'll be damned if I am going to start doing that same thing now to other Fellow Human Beings whom I do not know and have no way of knowing what their motives may be.

Yer killin me HH, yer killin me! Of course I am not going to "sign up". Been there and done all that! And if giving someone the benefit of the doubt makes me seem like I am "promoting it", then you just go right ahead on and think that all you want! Man o' Manischewitz!, this place really IS seeming more and more like a paranoid looney bin as the days go by! And, (said in a whisper); "Pssst! Happy Heart, if someone "goes there", it will be a self made decision just like the ones we all made when we were with The Way. An American Right, ya know...." And so Mr. Hamm, what did they say?

Well, I still say that the evidence left behind by the Artist which works to our benefit daily is good enough for me...

Okay then Oakspear, fair enough. And so, maybe it seems unfair for people to allow their minds to "run rampant like a pack of dogs turned loose on the game", when they don't know anything about young VPWs motives, Greek word not even used. . Sure I can agree that it would be helpful, but not necessarily mandatory. No doubt, if you think about it, folks willing to be a part of this program probably are already affiliated with the young man running the program. At another site, he said that he had done a fellow laborers program with CFF, and no doubt the majority of participants will come from that body of believers, hence the lack of a necessity for a list of credentials. And by the way (no pun intended), I will now "paste" that which I just read at the SOWERS website: For details or admissions information please contact Victor Wierwille at victorpaul38@aol.com And so, no doubt MORE INFORMATION can be found there. However, one could e-mail and simply ask instead of speculate, ya know? And so folks, I can see this one heating up, and I have said my piece on it already. Peace be unto you, and may young Wierwille keep his heart pure before the Lord. If not, I'll leave it to God... Oh, and here is JP and his sons from that other site. Oops, looks like I failed to post the pic. Anybody else want to try? Looks alot like 'ol VP don't he? And the boys are fine and handsome! Hope it all works out... http://api.ning.com/files/wnl-w6U7nP*anbZe...&crop=1%3A1

Wow. Not a one of us know anything about young VPW, and yet the assumptions are festering. Ya know, JP was either kicked out of The Way too, or, left because he was fed up with it, I can't remember the detail, but, I don't believe he was too happy about the way things in The Way were. But he is still a Christian believer, and maybe his son wants to keep on with the only thing he knows. If he is honest and wants to help people, God will help him and teach him. And if he is not, it will come to "nought". How about giving him the benny of the doubt? But nooooo! Let's just ASSume that Wierwille genes are vile and pernicious and that this young man is now the "son of satan" rising up to deceive the nations once again. Geez you guys, a number of you allow your minds to run so epiluo it's unbelievable... And for those of you who no longer even believe in God anymore, of course you won't see any benefit in trying to become a spiritual person. You gave that up and are now happy not believing in all of that "God stuff". Looks like this new website has supplied a new place to "pile on", kind of like the CES threads...

But if the guy has a pure heart, then his stated goals are simply fine. As long as he is honest before God and truly desires to help, what's the big deal? And come on, what if you were running some sort of seminar and someone got out of whack and needed to get gone, then you have to ask then to leave. Simple. So you set up the standard ahead of time. Just like in a bar or restaurant where the little plaque on the wall says "we have the right to refuse service to anyone". Man, this is awesome seeing you all getting worked up over this.

It's not a scam ya ninnys! Its the son of JP Wierwille, Victor Paul, the grandson of the VP we knew. He happens to be a committed Christian, and is interested in helping people with a ministry of some sort.

Sorry to hear you say that Vickles. Sounds though, as if yo may have hit upon some hard times? I hope it gets better. Whenever I ponder His existence, I look at the beauty of the Earth and all of the amazing things that makes the whole place operate. And I think; Ya know, when I see a beautiful piece of artwork, like a painting, I think that not only is the painting beautiful to gaze upon, but also I think; The artist behind this work has an amazing skill! When I hear music that I like, not only do I enjoy the sound of it, but I also revere the artist who created that music, played it, and made it so that I could listen to what had come out of her/his heart. And so, likewise with this pretty blue world that we live in and on. When is see the gorgeous pastels of a crimson sunset, I am in awe as it changes before my very eyes, from one splendid color to the next, I think man, The Artist here behind all of this is incredible! When I think of how millions of salmon, swimming around in the ocean over in the Sea of Japan, all of the sudden decide at the same time; "Time to go back to that tiny creek in Alaska"! And they all begin their Return to their home streams. And I think of the Master Artist who put it all together. And then of course, there is that sun and the moon and the stars, and how they effect our planet, giving us light, and warmth, and tides. And that night sky with a bazzillion sparkling jewels scattered across the deep black like diamonds, always reminds me that there definitely is an Artist. And I think of Psalms 104, which talks about His Creation... I hope things in your world are good or get better... :)

Did Sean Penn actually play in the movie?

VPW lives: http://sowersonline.com/default.aspx

We must stop Thomas Mapother!

I live in Juneau, the state's capital city. Juneau is located in what we call the Southeast Panhandle. Juneau, was named for Joe Juneau, a gold seeker who put Juneau on the map when a local Tlingit Indian, Chief Kowee, showed him where the "yellow metal" was. Took him there by canoe, if I remember correctly. check out the map link, and scroll to the lower right corner. I have also lived in Haines, just north of Juneau where I still own a house, as well as in Kenai, which is located on the Kenai Peninsula, up in South Central Alaska, down on the coast. But I have traveled the state extensively in the Interior up to Fairbanks, Chena Hot Springs, Two Rivers, Delta Junction, and Tok. On the Bering Sea Coast, I have been to Unalakleet as well as Nome, Mountain Village, Emmonak, Shaktoolik, Stebbins, Kotlik, Council, and St. Marys. All of the times I traveled to those places, I was working , and mainly building housing for the Eskimos and Indians, and making big bucks! It was nice getting that forty dollars an hour, lots of OT, plus hotel and per diem. And man, those Eskimo women in Nome! Whew! You can google any of those funny sounding villages and come up with some fun viewing and reading. And so, hopefully this link will work for you. It's just a map... http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...s%3Fq%3Dalaska% 2Bmap%26um%3D1&start=2&sa=X&oi=images&ct=image&cd=2