JustThinking

Ex, I think I love you! :-)

On the written vs. non-written debate: I think this is in itself a great example of waybrain. There were so many things said/done that by leaders who felt they had the right to give advice to people when they themselves had no qualifications at all. And we let them do it. How many WC or FC performed marriage counseling? How many actually had ANY training whatsoever? While no written policy may have existed on medication, it was standard practice to allow TWI leaders to give advice without training. In the workplace, that will make you and your employer liable. That is not "official" policy will be irrelevent to a court. I realize this isn't a legal discussion but we are talking about corporate policy of TWI. I would be curious if TWI employees (full time WC, for example) giving medical advice which resulted in harm would result in legal liability for the TWI corporation.

Oldiesman/CoolWaters, There seems to be a little bit of a shift in TWI III. During LCM's reign, the WC were into everyone's business. Lots of reports on everyone. How much they witness, ABS, attend fellowship, etc. My impression is the examples I saw were done as part of thinking it was ok to stick their nose in peoples lives. These days, there are so few people, it's probably just not possible. Also, they seem to be afraid of losing what's left in their fellowships.

oldiesman, It may not have been official, written policy to advise against medication. However, I saw several circumstances where people were discouraged by leaders from taking medication that were viewed as unnecessary such as hormone therapy for postmenapausal problems. Add to that, anti-depressants ("just read the Word more"), Ritalin (a big one) and ANYTHING prescribed by a psychologist. I met a lot of WC over the years that seem to all have the same opinion of psychologists and it was consistently negative. All recommendations came from people with NO medical background whatsoever. (Didn't even play one on tv) Apparently, the WC used to get "medical revelation." (I'm kidding. No one ever said that) Great example of people just accepting things without ever thinking it through.

CoolWaters, "companies whose logos had 'devilish' symbolism?" Wow, you win. I thought I had gotten whacky advice.

Wonder, (As I mentioned, I'm attending a TWI fellowship but planning my exit) Like many, I don't think there's much left there. Whether you love or loath TWI, it's a shell of it's former self. The only information I've seen on WDs is that they are typically kids of old grads. And even then that's just a small number. The rest are future WC who are assigned to go. The number of people who come in new, make it to the AC and go WD is almost non-existent. Also, the number of leaders who just disappear is alarming. If it weren't for this site, I would have no idea where these people went. If you ask, you'll get a lot of question ducking. Push it and you'll get pushed back. I know, I've tried in more than one state. It is NOT something to be discussed. Finally, there really is no direction, no plan. Believe in it or not, at least Word over the World was some kind of plan. Now the only thing there is some vague "prevailing" notion. It kind of means you'll do well in various categories of life but you're never actually told how. Remember the idea of being a "how to" ministry? That's gone. How to prosper? Increase how much you give. That's the only thing taught with any detal. Then they play lip service to "working heartily" and living within your means. That's about it. I wish in some ways I could be more positive as a lot of my life has been invested. No more putting a pretty face on a bad situation though. Too much of that already from TWI.

...that I began to see people as potential registrants in a class and not just people.

...that it became impossible to hear other's opinions or ideas. They were simply to be analyzed for weaknesses.

Ex, I accept this great honor! :-)

Backforty, I'm a newbie here too. On keeping a straight face, it was VERY tough. This guy was a treasure trove of comments like that though. Like the time he told me I was a great man of God. My response? "You know nothing about my life, how can you say that?" He kind of stammered a bit and said "people seem to really like you." The good news with the lady is we did become friends and are to this day. She's now married and enjoying life.

Ex, Thanks for my early Christmas present. :-) I think I know this guy. Really. We had a BC that I would NEVER allow a new person to meet. He only knew how to talk about the Bible. I think being a BC meant others HAD to be his friend more than anything about loving God or people. One day I had invited some people over to hang out. A lady I was interested in also came over as well. However, she had never been to fellowship or anything, the horror! Short story is he starts talking to her in the kitchen about the foundational class and asks her when she's going to register! She had no idea what he was even talking about. Needless to say, no second date for us. :-( Like you, she thought I had planned this and was part of some weird religious group. (Hmm...) I justed to watch the movie and enjoy the wine. Oh, turns out it was my fault for not dating someone in the household and I shouldn't have served wine at a ministry function. When I pointed out that it WASN'T a ministry function, he said it was because he was there. ???

Wonder, Washingtonweather is correct about you being very suspect in the eyes of Corps and leaders. As I mentioned, I'm in but on my way out. When we got "old grad" referrals, it was assumed they wouldn't stick around and would be a pain in the butt. The reaction of our corps was almost as if they were more of problem than they were worth. Obviously, you'll have to make your own decisions. I think I can honestly claim to have be careful in my decision and not just emotional. The irony is that I have applied the standards I was taught by TWI and concluded they are harmful to me. Many people who had problems were M&A because "you know people by their fruit." If that's the case, these people must be horrific in some way. For me, the evidence has become overwhelming. On the positive side, this site has allowed me to ask questions I would NEVER have asked at fellowship. I'll echo what others have said which is make sure you look carefully before you leap.

Dot, Thank you. This is what I get for posting while dying from the flu. (Where IS my believing?!) I'm going back to bed now. >:-|

Is this an old thread? Some dates are '02 and others more recent. Or is this just something that surfaced accidently? Wonder, If you're still here, I'm on my way out and can share my thoughts, if you're interested.

Next one: Lessons in spiritual greatness: BC joins local recreational baseball team to witness to people. (Friends, family and associates being the theme of the moment) Oddly, none of the people on the team ARE his friends, family or associate. ??? Nor does he have any serious amount of baseball skills. But, hey, can't let that stop outreach, eh? We'll just believe God. First game, playing outfield, he goes back for a fly ball and drops it. Easy catch gone bad. The other team boos and laughs at him. In telling the story at a FC meeting, he boldly proclaims "They wouldn't have booed if they had known a great man of God was playing!" He promptly quit and was never seen there again. :-) By the way, that WAS the outreach plan for the month. I guess he only got "revelation" once so it was subject to change. ;-)

I might be the odd one out here. I'm actually in the process of leaving. So where has God taken me? Mentally, I left a while ago so that's what I can discuss. The short version is that I spend more time with my wife and kids. Work no longer gets neglected to run off to another meeting. And I even get to see my family (brothers, sisters, etc.) more. In general, life feels more "normal." Or maybe I should just say "normal."

Ex, This isn't a side track for me. It shows the progression you went through which is just as valuable. (At least for me) Thanks for sharing some personal insight. I'm just now becoming aware of some of these issues. Or more accurately, the scale of the problem. I tended to be a typicaly wayfer and either ignore it or rationalize things. It is probably a good news/bad news thing that I have usually lived some distance from a LC or BC. It kept me away from having to string my chairs for dinner (kidding). However, I also didn't see many people like yourself who were trying to warn others. My old friends had moved away and just seemed to disappear.

Oh, cool! Consider it my Christmas (yes, I said it!) present. Thank you!

Hope, I admire your ability to take a long-term view about your own life and marriage. It is wonderful to see any man or woman put so much thought into their actions. I had a couple in my fellowship who had a VERY similar experience but it was the wife who wasn't ready to leave. It's saddens me to this day how things turned out. They were wonderful people but up with so much grief. They did have some problem areas in their life but no more so than many of us. The local leaders rode them so hard about it that they finally left. No help, just berating. My impression was the local twit who was the BC was scared to death of them because he couldn't hold a candle to their ability. He would make the most ridiculous statements while trying to sound "deep" or "spiritual." They were just vague statements though that didn't mean much. I think in some ways he got tired of getting called on it and decided to get rid of them. I started a thread about old TWI relationships on this site because of them. It would be nice to find them again and apologize for not fighting harder to get them help. If you have any advice about approaching them, I would be very grateful. The berating didn't come from me but I didn't do a whole lot as their FC to stop it either. It's something I regret to this day.

Ex, Playground rules prevail. If you start the biker story, you have to finish. :-P

Oakspear, LOL! That BC was a sharpie! Thank you. :-) Another favorite: For a while, LCM had gotten the "revelation" that we were to go to the middle class only. No, really. He compared this brainstorm to Paul's revelation to go to specific areas at specific times. Well, I asked what exactly "middle class" meant and how could I know who was middle class? Keep in mind, this was for door-to-door witnessing. So we had to guage the economic status of the occupant before they opened the door. Well, the BC paused and thought for a minute. The answer? Look at the house, of course! When I pointed out that I lived in an apartment with a wide variety of people, the BC got really annoyed. So he actually said... "If they have a fancy door decoration, they're probably not middle class." Now is that CP1 or what?!

Dovey, Good for you! And I'm VERY glad you still have your hubby. :-) I understand RR still owns her house. Wonder if it's paid for?

wd58, Dumb question: Do you think it was fear that kept you from talking to you hubby sooner? Fear of his reaction or just fear of making your feelings known at all?

Galen, Wow! He searched your house? That's very weird. And they wonder why people are suspicious of them. What classes have you been running?

Steve! Whoops! How could I have missed the obvious?!