JustThinking

Rafael, Are you aware of the reason for the change?

Dittos here. I was nevered pressured by anyone in TWI to avoid Christmas. There was an emphasis on not having any kind of angels with wings or teaching kids about Santa Claus though. We didn't teach our kids that Santa Claus was real but we also always taught them to not tell other kids that. In hindsight, would I do it that way again? Hard to say. Christmas was and still a great time for our family. For those who suffered under the Noel Nazis, I'm sorry for you.

ALP, "ALP" makes you sound a bit Nordic. You are very welcome! Me making up for lost time? Absolutely and I'm just now making my way out of TWI. Although the truth is has been happening for some time. The ironic thing to me is how many other people could be mistaken for me. Kind of involved but now realizing their kids aren't getting any younger or they only have so much time with their spouse and family. My biggest change has been to spend great moments with my family. Sadly, there was damage due to time lost but it's being put together and life is become wonderful again. So, I guess, I should thank you for asking too. :-) You, Oakspear and Ex always seem to make my day.

WG, Is that a true story about Ike's wife? Was she a grad? ;-) It sounds more like leaving the emporer's court.

George & Danny, Thank you. I had found both before. It's too bad no one has collected, organized and verified some of this information on a single site. Wish I had the ability to do so. :-( JT

George, I too can relate. During a conversation with my closest friend, some past events came up. More just as an example of something else but it made me irritable. The more I talked, it became apparent that it bothered me more than I had realized. It was then that I knew something had to change. And here I am. It was amazing to see how much I had learned to suppress my feelings!

M&A, Might it be wise to make some distinctions? "They" is a bit broad. Like every group, there were some really good people and, apparently, some really bad. I take your statements to mean the folks who ran the place before and/or the folks in charge now. Did I get that right?

Long Gone, And hopefully still alive.

Oops, posted to wrong thread.

Mike, I fail to see any connection between your thoughts and what happened. If VPW were such a great leader, why would this topic rate "an emergency...ten minute meeting?" Ten minutes?! People are dying and we give it a whole ten minutes? We give a whole day EVERY YEAR to spring cleaning (Uncle Harry Day) but 600 seconds to this? No Sunday night service, no Way Mag articles, no letters from HQ? In any large organization, if something is important, then leaders can do many things to emphasize change and make sure it occurs. SUCCESSFUL and WELL RUN groups have faced less serious problems than people losing their lives, invested much more time than 10 minutes and succeeded in overcoming it. To me, this shows just how important the subject was to him. And how unimportant those poor people were. One last thought. Can you give me a single date, location and verses taught where he addressed this subject in public? Surely, I must be wrong. Overeager TWI employees giving bad medical advice which actually KILLED people he loved so much? He must have done something in a public forum. Not in some vague, "if you read into it" way. Very specific and on this topic where he gives CLEAR direction. Mike, didn't he? [This message was edited by JustThinking on December 15, 2003 at 8:13.]

In looking for good information on TWI, there is a lot of information on the web but it's pretty scattered. Is there a site similar to WayDale that puts all of this in one place? Or even just a complete look at one aspect such VPW's education? Not just rumors, etc. but factual evidence people can see? Court documents, transcripts, etc.? For example, from the information that can be given publicly, it seems VPW's bachelors degree only included one or two theology classes. I don't have a transcript but that's the type of thing that would be really valuable. That might have more impact than stories from someone who left TWI 20 years ago. Not that it isn't important but there's no denying the affect WayDale had on people like myself.

A La, I can empathize. No time for career development of any kind. Even afraid to commit to after school activities because a class might come up which screw everything up. I hope you're making up for lost time in a way that makes you happy.

Abigail, Thank you for the insight. It seems like this is an example of despicable but, in the end, legal abuse of people.

Steve!, Thank you very much. I do feel there at least a couple of folks just like me. Oakspear, probably the most. And Ex is just too cool. (I've already pointed out that she reminds me of my big sis) I'm so thankful I never let go of my friends or family. Turns out they love me whether or not I string my chairs for Thanksgiving dinner. :-)

Have to give them two thumbs down. If they were even a fair ambassador, they would show SOME growth. Plus how can they be a good ambassador for Jesus Christ if they barely even mention his name? He is barely referenced anywhere in teachings.

Stupid Way story #344983... LC insists someone vacuum his house before every function. But wait, that's not all... ...it has to be done in rows! And not just any rows. The vacuum has to go in the opposite direction every time (no backing up) and no "overlap" in the rows. Yep, just like a manicured lawn. The rows are perfectly lined up and the carpet pile is going in different directions. He even expected the poor soul who did this to continue this look under and around furniture! Guess who NEVER volunteered to be at this house before a class? :-)

:-P As for me, I've begun planning my exit.

Gladtobeout, That description fits me perfectly. Including being thankful for this site.

B4T, (My your name is getting short) If I remember correctly, it was on VPW's brother, Harry's birthday. He cleaned out his checkbook every year and gave the balance to his brother for the work of the ministry. Somehow that inspired people to burn their unnecessary items (chaff). All, If I got details wrong, please correct me.

Shaz, I once asked why there was a burn the chaff day. If you are bringing an entire box of items, why didn't you just get rid of it when you realized you didn't need it? Another one of my MANY questions that got an annoyed look in response.

Oakspear, We seem to have a lot in common. Many of the people I knew who wanted to "enlighten" me were worse than the TWI leaders I knew. And the attitude they had was just unbearable. Lot's of little Weirwilles. Kind of like the people they claim had been so bad. Hmm... Anyhoo, it's been nice being on this site, getting information and being able to discuss it without all the soapboxing. (Is that a real word?) What caused you to finally leave mentally? Were there sources of information that were reliable in your mind? If your wife was so adamant, did you have someone else you could talk to? If I'm getting to personal, it's ok.

Abigail That is what I understood as well. There have been cases where religious institutions have been sued over harmful advice. My clearest memories though are of parents who denied their children medical care. Are you aware of cases like that where the church has been held liable as well? None come to mind for me. This line of thinking seems to be on more shaky ground than I thought. Thanks for the insight. Another thought: Would the fact that they are in a position to give counsel bestow liability at all? It just seems odd that a person could be in such a trusted position and be so free to abuse it.

My guess is that you did not learn that in the WC.

From the "waybrain" thread", it occurred to me that TWI leaders may have given advice at times without proper qualification. Do we have any attorneys on this site? If so, would there be liablity there? If a Way employee advises someone to not seek medical care or take prescribed medication, does that make them and/or their employer liable? We probably all have guesses. Let's see if we can hear from someone with a legal background.

Back4T, My only regret is that Nike never picked up endorsement contract. "Just Believe It!" Hmm...doesn't have quite the same ring, does it? ;-) As for in/out, you are correct. I've been thinking about it for a while but thought the honest thing to do was confirm some of the things I had heard. Not that people are ever dishonest but...