JustThinking

NLBT, My experience is similar in many respects to Oak's. I will add that part of the answer is not within the person. It is also important to recognize that there was a focused but hidden agenda in recruiting you using practiced techniques. How did people become nazis or communists, turning in their own parents to the government over their parent's heresy? Gradual but INTENTIONAL removal of the building blocks of conscience. No one showed up one day and said "hey, let's shoot your parents." Nope, they had to lie in wait with cunning craftiness to deceive you. Hey, isn't that in the Bible? :-) If you study the methods of the Nazi Youth (HitlerJugend) or the Young Communists (Komsomol), they may look eerily familiar. They are pretty old tricks. Not much new under the sun, after all. So why didn't we do a better job of questioning? My opinion is it's fair to ask ourselves that to a point. My line is when it stops being a learning process and becomes a guilt or shame process then it's no longer healthy. Welcome to GS! It is such a great place to learn, discuss and even just vent at times.

Catcup, Private topic for you. JT

Insurgent, Minor point: "A" man of God? It was "THE" Man of God. JT

Depression: An emotional state characterized by sadness, unhappiness, anhedonia, helplessness, hopelessness, dejection, futility, and worthlessness Paranoia: A term used to describe behavior that usually results from delusions and an impaired contact with reality but not necessarily with the severe disorganization observed in schizophrenia. Delusional Disorder: A type of psychotic disorder characterized by a delusional system. Are these all necessarily mutually exclusive? I don't think so. Seeing the failing of a delusional system could cause depression, yes? What better way to try to hold yourself together than blame others? It worked for Hitler, Stalin, and others. Many deranged despots have suffered from severe depression but it didn't make them passive. Also, medication may treat one but who's to say what the side affects were?

CC, Still holding your breath? ;-)

All, Do I remember this correctly: LCM changed the salt covenant the corps took from one with God to one with him?

Oldies, Dittos for field people. I didn't have much exposure to HQ folks but the corps in our area went into immediate yard sale mode. Others were dropped when they showed up at ROA that year. One couple in our area were told they were no longer "corps material." What does that mean? Who knows. That was about it too. Quit their jobs, etc. and came back with NOTHING. No job, no plan. Just dropped. They ended up leaving TWI only to go back later. They even called me to try to get me to come back! They had actually rationalized somehow that it was THEIR fault and asked the BOT for forgiveness. sigh... LCM used to say that people run to slavery. There's a whole bunch of people like this working to prove him right apparently. JT

Wow, "able to post asleep." I'm not sure insurgent gets my vote for most informative but he/she gets it for most capable. :-)

Oldies, I believe cost played a big role. They just couldn't afford all of those people being full time. Even the ones who did make it to payroll nirvana had to get by on almost nothing. Pets, cable television and many other typical items were banned. It was sad to see this corps kids in our area being told no more dog, no more cable, etc. Not that cable is that important to God but for a 12-year old...

"I believe we still have a “job” to do in exposing the evils of the more recent years of TWI 3 (LCM) and 4(RFR), especially to those who may be reading who are still in. (Harve? Mr. Linder? Gary?). I’m not saying that the topics about the early days are irrelevant – just that lately we’ve pretty much become a TWI 1 discussion forum." Taking so much and giving nothing. Literally. Tapes are paid items. Classes too. Ministers who work full time jobs so they can't spend much time with others. (Although, at times, that's not so bad) Allowing a psycho to rant and rave at students as young as 12 years old. Creating (yes, I CAN use that word!) mistrust among friends by having them fill out 3x5 cards on each other. (Vee have vays of making you spiritual...) Redefining success every time to make themselves look good. Even when the most stalwart of followers could see that nothing had happened. Taking the twisting of scriptures to a whole new level. Not just bizarre interpretations but just saying your opinion without even quoting a verse. (Happens a lot in newer classes) Gee, should I keep going...?

HJ, I feel for you. When we got a RC that was fresh from the Poppy fields of O-hi-O, his big thing was outreach. He wanted to know how many new people came each week and wanted it in the newsletter. (Whatever it's called now) Turns out if was often "0." Ha! No problem. We count instead how many contacts were made. Low single digits for an entire state! Woops. Ok, let's count how many people we talked to throughout the day. Gee, that makes an impressive enough number to put in a newsletter. So, it was done. From the outside, one would think that this bonehead had turned a sleepy group into "HOT BIBLE MOVERS!" Truth is, he just found ways to cook the books. Kind of like Enron. When you're spirituality is measured by how bold your language is versus what you actually deliver, it's no surprise that fantasy prevails. Hey, wait, that's it! The Land of the Prevailing Fantasy! The new theme for '05! What do you think? It fits for any TWI. Now if I only got a set of Ginsu knives...

Clean 'fridge = Clean fluffy? Woah! Can you say "issues." Yikes! Jim, Wouldn't a clean TAILPIPE indicate a healthy prostate? ;-) (I can hear exie losing her breakfast already)

TWI has a new class out. A remake of CF&S and whatever LCM called his. Does anyone have any info on it?

I have recent experience with TWI and can concur with Catcup. Although I wonder how much is his direct influence or them just no having any other product to push. TWI has always been about selling classes. When PFAL was dropped but the new classes weren't out yet, there was almost NO new people around. It was like the borg in Star Trek walking around looking for the mother ship. You have people who equate outreach with with a signed card. Anything done for the person is only to lead to a signature and check. Sadly, TWI views the CONCLUSION of outreach as that point. SO.... this is yet another new TWI in that they have a class and no MOG. I - Mog then a class II - New Mog, old class then new class III - No MOG, old new class IV - No MOG, doing new classes I put the last one in as I understand TWI is redoing LCM and VPW's family/sex class. Believing Disciple's Standard of Ruling your Family and Leading your Wife. (Just kidding!) I don't know what it's called. There IS supposed to be a new class though. Has anyonne been in it or heard about it?

dmiller, I can't believe it took so long for someone to ask about Mike! To be honest, I tend to not read his posts or threads. However, IMO, this presented the entire range of options. :-) Being fair can be painful. ;-)

At an AC in the 80s, several of us asked this question of the staff. Johnny Townsend came out before a session and said, essentially, we know some of them aren't accurate but it's the best we have. If someone would like to write hymns, let us know. "If you're going to complain, offer to help fix it." No one did it seems as they are still there.

Exie, Is that legal? ;-)

Ditto. He was unlikely to be deposed because he had run off any other potential Alpha males from the herd. Any remaining resistance would probably be met with a brutal response. If that fails, get a "new revelation" (new class, change/eliminate programs, etc.) and change the game. Keeps everyone off balance and lets you pull the strings. Old trick, new shtick. Machiavelli by a man who probably couldn't spell it. Ah, the irony. :-)

After reading the bumped thread from WayDale, I noticed comments about how informative some of the threads are. Here's my unofficial poll of who is the most informative poster on this site. Rafael gets my vote. If I get enough requests, I'll add others. How did I pick these names? Just frequent posters. Don't look for any serious analysis here as there isn't any. Just off the top of my head. Write-in votes are absolutely allowed. (This is just for fun and giving the group an opportunity to say something nice about another poster)

Apparently, I was a lousy wayfer. We heard lectures over the years but I always just kept what I wanted and tossed the rest. Let's see, who was I told was seed... Lionel Richie (He heard the songs in his head before he wrote them down. Where else would you think but in your own head?!) Michael Jackson ??? From the same people who said "seed boys" were always stealthy and sly! MJ stealthy?! Yeah, right. NO one would pick him out in a crowd. The Beatles or at least John Lennon. Derail: Cute line on Lennon: John to God: "I thought you didn't exist!" God to John: "Imagine that." Back to the subject: KISS - Knights in silly spandex or something like that. Ozzy - "Well, it's obvious." There went that whole sly and stealthy thing again. Mozart - Apparently, child prodigies are usually seed. Hmm... wonder how young some of the way productions folks started performing? Makes you think, doesn't it? ;-) Oh, there's more but OM hit the nail on the head. If the leadership liked it was ok. Otherwise, you never heard it.

Ex, ??? Did I miss something?

I haven't been gone that long but can say it has changed. Not for the better though. It reminds of of the early 90s when so many had been tossed or left that groups were small. To keep things from collapsing in our state, things were kept very low key. Once the situation stabilized, life went back to control-mode. By the mid-90s, LCM was back to his ole screamin' self. Things blew up after the law suits so now they're in damage control mode. "We looooooooove youuuuuuuu." I realized that the same folks such as Rosie were around when VPW was doing his thing are still around today. That's when I decided to go. Way too much of a pattern there.

Goey, That is SUPERB! Out of words...laughing too hard...must breath...

I remember all of this then saw LCM talking about Metallica and how much he liked them. Nothing like consistency. Of course, he got to sound cool to all of the teens at the ROA.

Out of curiousity, are young people sticking around? Anyone know? In the 90s, most of the classes were filled with teens of old grads. If it weren't for them, I doubt a class would have run in our area.