JustThinking

TWI made a big deal over the years about VPW and his supposed relationship with famous theologians such as Karl Barth. Is this true, exaggerated or just fiction? Any old-timers know?

Raf, It seems you've hit the nail on the head. Conscience by poll. It's important but I sold it for $1.

Why is $1000 the smallest option? Tom, IMO, had a great answer. Maybe a completely new poll without changes would work best. Still planning on accepting the outcome as binding?

UncleHairy, I don't know who does it today. Mike M****n was for a while. One thing that was evident in the 90s was no individual performances being allowed to be put on CD/tape. Remember Claudette and others having their own tapes? No more. Singing Ladies of the Way (SLOW? Oh, how funny. Never caught that before!) or Way Prod items only. LCM doing VPW one better?

... still laughing at the American Idol comment! :-) More painful than watching them at HQ was having to watch those awful videos on the field. They're even worse when you have a bunch of little kids who are expected to sit still for this. Impossible! What was the name of the guy who was slammed by Simon and has become a mini-item? Asian engineer? Help from the audience, please. Maybe they could sign him up for the current class? ;-)

I'm with Tom, btw. Give it to them and be done. Recoup any costs, if possible.

I agree with the above. Methinks thou dost protest too much, Pat. Your choice is your own. I wouldn't own it, wouldn't accept for free if offered and would give it up if it somehow came into my possesion. The best change in my life in relation to TWI has been to let the bad parts go. Clean break and move on. GS has let me clear up many things to allow me to separate the good from the bad. Once that's done, hopefully, I'll do my best to accomplish it. Trying to prove moral points with someone who may or may not care doesn't help me at all. It tastes too much like a cold dish of revenge.

Ahhhh.... Thank you Steve! Is there one? I would have to say so, in a way. (No pun intended) The communists had people reporting on their families and others. TWI never refused information (to my knowledge) about others. In fact, when I was a twig coordinator, my LC used to call me frequently to "check on" certain people. They would always want detailed info. Is there a formal organization like that? Anybody here who has been on staff could best answer.

Zix, You're right! What gives Pat? You said you'd stick by the poll. Now you've effectively changed my vote and I can't redo it. This is beginning to feel like it's about getting attention not money, a reasonable offer or anything else.

Help an old man. GB?

Ex10, TWI often made fun of people in need. The Gospels have many records of people coming to Jesus who he didn't even KNOW! His reputation was such that they were sure he could and would help them. And there was no internet to pass the word around. That's pretty strong word of mouth. "I think this is quite the opposite of what Jesus was/is all about." If TWI were to vote today on God's plan to have one of their own to die for total strangers who may or may not agree with them, it seem unlikely they would approve the plan. Thankfully, I think you're right. His followers too. Even after the Word was over the world (to use TWI's expression), Paul continued to help strangers. Acts 27, he comforts sailors on his ship when God tells him they'll be shipwrecked. The angel told Paul. Why worry about some dumb, old unbelievers? Why indeed. Paul ministered to them. Something tells me they weren't all AC grads either. ;-)

Paridiseden, I remember when the "new" blue song books came out. Apparently, I really p***ed of my LC when I asked why the price went up but there less songs. Should have seen his face. He actually turned red with anger! While stifling his seeming desire to strangle me, he told me some story about the old one having copyrighted songs they no had permission to use. Not sure if it was true or not. Like many others, the amount of my giving is huge. Way over 10 years in adds up. Once, I sold my house and got a big check after setllement. (Getting out of debt, of course) Biggest ABS check I ever wrote. It was the only time I ever got a letter from HQ addressed to me personally. Never got one for running a class, healing someone (from cancer), teaching a large group (when non-corps could still do that) or anything else. Big check? You get a personal letter from one of the BOT for that. Not saying that shows anything but...

Golfie, Uhhhhh..... don't be surprised if they still have them. Having survived many of the purges in the mid-90s, I can tell you that there was a LOT of selective cleaning. I think the more a LC didn't like a person, the more pressure there was to ditch items with an attachment. Now if they lived in your house, did you move, sell the bed they slept in, etc.? No way. For example, t's been a few years since I was in the auditorium but there were MANY items donated by people no longer in TWI. Why are they still there? Hate to say it's inconsistent but...

The sad part of this for me is these examples are WORSE than what I'd heard. Wow! A prepared list of gifts? Why not just register at Macy's or Nordstroms? Oops, maybe I shouldn't give them any ideas.

Diazbro, ICOC? That is a new one to me. Why are they seen as competitors? Is it another offshoot? JT

Dot, I was never corps and never got a gift of any kind. However, I run many classes with wc in attendance as part of the crew. They were "in charge" but I coordinated it. Translation: I did all of the work and they "prayed" and "oversaw things spiritually.") There was a time when I was allowed to just be the coordinator but LCM dictated corps-only. So... I became the "coordinator" but didn't run it. ???? Not sure what that meant. Oh yeah, guess who got a gift at the end of class? >:- I also made sure everyone was there including arranging rides, helping to coordinate babysitting, couseling students with problems, finances, family, etc. I was curious when it stops being "helping" and starts being spiritual oversight. Oh well, if I knew that, you might have to give ME a gift. LOL!

"Auto pilot." "Snooze button." After well over 15 years with TWI, THAT is what I felt drew many. From my first twig meeting, I saw people who could spout wayferisms but couldn't explain them. Had cutesy one-liners but didn't have the ability to open a Bible and walk someone through the new birth or anything else if it deviated from what they saw in a class. My guess is Catcup's friend is not alone in his desire. There were so many who just wanted the world to be made simple and clear. Simple to the point of not really requiring any thought. I've made this point here before. LCM used to say all the time how people ran to slavery. Maybe he was right and knew it. "Don't think, don't worry about bad stuff and we'll tell you that you are a great believer." Shellon's comment is something I have thought of many times. What happens to people like this when the bubble breaks? If it doesn't in this life, it most assuredly will in the next. My hope is that they will be forced to face life as it has been and not what someone told them it was.

TWI II saw a ban for a while on gifts to WC. (Cutting into ABS, perhaps?) Were gifts in TWI I for leaders ever OTT? (Over the top) By that I mean more than you personally would normally have purchased for someone out of love. Not having been there I don't know if comments I've heard are true or not.

If you are minister and therefore exempt from Federal income tax, do you still have to file? If so, past tax record have been VERY revealing in many cases. Not sure how you could work it into a case about a web site but you asked for creative.

Ahhh... John 10:10. The more abundant wife.

Hmm... there is also a "wayinternational.com" It sells motorcycles! The country code is "002." Is that Japan? Anyway... PJ, maybe you have competition? Perhaps the 1st string is going after this possessed bike dealer in Japan. :-) Should we warm them?

Krysilis, I was thinking the same thing. Only Paw knows if he had a calling and if so, what it was. The word "ministry" didn't come to my mind but it certainly has ministered to me. Or, more accurately, the folks on it have. CW, Does GSC give me the opportunity to be what I hoped to be in TWI. No, not really. I had always wanted to be in a position to minister and teach. I can minister to some degree here but no more than any other part of my life. What it HAS done though is help to remove the obstacles to doing those things.

Pat, After reading your question again, I'm unclear. Are you asking if it's reasonable to M&A someone just because their spouse leaves? Or about M&A, in general? JT

Pat, Their application of it was more "discard those who we don't think measure up or may be too much work."

Steve!, I can't say how many, if any, made money. However, there were other perks that could have drawn people in. Others doing your housework, watching your kids, driving you around, "bless gifts" for running a class, etc. You have a valid point though. So maybe it was a MoLM scam? Mono-level Marketing? ;-) "It all goes to us!" Bet Mr. Ponzi wished he would have thought of that one.