JustThinking

Hmm... was the secretary treasurer aware of what was occurring in an organization? Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, Enron! And every other scam in the past few years. I see three possible choices: 1. Harry knew what was going on in his own group and was an accomplice 2. He was a total doofus that was around constantly and still ignorant. 3. He was aware but chose to ignore it for some reason. In any case, he was a company officer and therefore responsible for it's behavior. Just like the Enron guys in jail now. Was he willingly part of a scam? God knows his heart, not me. JT

OMG, Rascal, I am so sorry! :=| Forgive me? Steve!, Thanks for correcting me.

Nameless, Welcome to the cafe'. Rascal laid out what I believe is a very accurate timeline of your pending "involvement" with the Way, if you continue. I was in for over 10 years and lived near or served under Way leaders for some time. His comments were true in both states where I lived. And it's not coincidence as it is actively taught that involvement is a one-way street. Your date eventually comes to the Way or you leave the "unbeliever." NOOOOO middle ground at all. Period. Also, I think UncleHarry's questions are an excellent, non-confrontational way to start a conversation on the topic. Question 3 will almost certainly provoke an emotional response so please be careful. It's a touchy subject for them. The organization promotes a very insulated lifestyle which ignores the outside world and opinions. Much of their time is wrapped up in the Way's functions. Anything that conflicts with Way doctrine is labelled "of the adversary" or "doctrines of devils." If you think back to Galileo and how the church treated him, you'll have a good picture of the Way. They'll burn you at the stake (by shunning you) until a new concept is proved right. Once something good does come out, they'll somehow take credit for it. Finally, during my waning days with them, I saw an increase in single women being encouraged to "get out and date." Some were even encouraged to use dating services. The reason is the Way has shrunk significantly in the past decade leaving the pool of single adults in any given area very low. The Way will tell singles this but closely monitors (yes, they keep records on this) how much interest there is on your part. The person coordinating her local group will casually ask about you but then report back to higher leadership. If it becomes obvious that you have no intention of joining, there will be an increase in the pressure to drop you. JT

Did we ever find out if there was anything new?

Refiner, I don't think the focused attention (maybe a less charged word than lovebombing) was so mysterious in TWI. Their people are drilled on how important "outreach" is. It was presented many times as one of THE measures of the health of a local group. It is taught and emphasized constantly. If THAT doesn't work, it is done through not so subtle coercion. "Getting a class (foundational class for new people) together" becomes a team sport with local group coordinators reviewing regularly the list of potential new candidates. As TWI weaves itself so much into your life, it's easy to spend that influence on making you focused on recruiting. When you do finally have a new recruit show up at a TWI meeting, it's so surprising that the newbie gets swarmed. Kind of like having an exchange student show up at your school. New people at TWI are a rare novelty these days. JT

LindaZ: "Not a very successful "recruitment" program anymore, so they went into the "the Word's already over the world" mode. I see this as comparable to the attitude your cat might exhibit right after falling into the toilet: I MEANT TO DO THAT!" ROTFLMAO! And it is SO true! TWI can't be wrong because "God runs the corps, we believe the Word, etc." Having left a little over a year ago, I can say that any shred of real heart was gone. It was all directed and imposed outreach. The fellowships in the state where I had friends who hadn't left were small and mostly shrinking. Some were stable but that was just a core of old Wayfers who hadn't died yet. No new people and their own kids bailed when they turned 18. Dead Church Walking.

Maybe someone not on the M&A list could call the bookstore? Pj, you may want to let someone else do it. (Just kidding!) JT

One last point. People tried to warn me about TWI but the stories were so ridiculous that they seemed to have no credibility. My favorite was essentially that TWI kidnapped people and tortured them to make them gave in. Nothing of the sort ever happened that I saw. Most of the folks I met were genuinely nice or seemed so which made my other christian friends allegations look silly. In fact, TWI leaders used to even bring them up at meetings as examples of "attacks from the adversary." In hindsight it was brilliant! Bring it up to prejudice us before we heard it from a non-TWI person. I wish there had been a site like this when I got it. Honest, factual information would been so helpful. But on a positive side, I'm glad Paw's here now. :-)

Refiner, My last few years with TWI were ALL about recruitment. That was the theme at every turn. In fact, for a while, we would be taken out "witnessing" any time there was not a newbie at a meeting. So much fun. Not. :-( There was little to no attention paid to existing members unless they had a new person with them. Taking classes was pushed very quickly but so was giving. Not at first but once they were "part of the fellowship" meaning getting into it. Whoever brought them was told to "explain the benefits of tithing and abundant sharing". (Abundant sharing in TWI terms is giving anything over 10%) Also, keep in mind that TWI maintained some form of formal recruitment program like JWs. In the late 90s it became "The Way Disciples." You had to have taken all of their classes and been a fairly trusted member of one of their groups for some time. The initial guidance from Craig Martindale was that they would "confront the world with the Word." (My paraphrasing but it's very close to exact) It fit with his harsh, abrasive style. His logic was that "the Word was over the World" which meant it was availabe to anyone in the world who wanted it. Don't look for a small, US-centric group to fit that description. No logic in that at all. Therefore what the unbelieving world needed was to be confronted about their unbelief. When I asked if getting in someone's face was really a good way to win them over I got the usual non-answer. Just TWI double-speak. My impression is that it has never been terribly successful. One way to tell is by what is not said. When they have something impressive like numbers, TWI trumpets them. If not, they dwell on some vague point that can't be measured. "They Way Disciples were so blessed..." etc. I got in when my roommate was hit on by some hottie and he followed his genitals to a TWI meeting. He dragged me along. I met a couple of cool guys who liked to jam so we hit it off. That was back when playing your own music or (gasp!) worldly music was ok. I didn't really want to take a class but they said to try it and if I didn't like it I didn't have to finish. The rest is history. JT

Refiner, Like others here, I definitely used my materials. However, if I can direct what evidence you see and don't then I can generally determine your conclusions. My opinion is that was a central part of TWI's control process.

Quotes from house's summary: 1. "As workers together with God, we earnestly desire to grow in our ability to edify and build up the Church according to God's plan. We are disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ, and we seek to build according to God's blueprint for the ages, which is His Holy Word." I as assuming that in WayLand that "the church" still means just them? 2. "Refers to Eph 4:11-13 gift ministries given as resources for edification. 'It takes perfecting the saints, the work of the ministry and the edifying of the body of Christ collectively to spiritually complete the continuing process of maturity.'" Just like I remember. More and more what one is supposed to do but not how to do it. Or did I miss it somewhere? Admittedly, this is a summary but my bet is that it's not in there. 3. "Refers to Eph 4:11-13 gift ministries given as resources for edification. "It takes perfecting the saints, the work of the ministry and the edifying of the body of Christ collectively to spiritually complete the continuing process of maturity." "With the help of the gift ministries, we continue to improve ourselves no matter what our stage of growth or season of life because we want to give, to edify others, and to build up the Temple of God to His glory." More of what we do but not how to do it. Why not just print a booklet that says "you should read out books, memorize them, give us your money and listen to us at all times?" Are there ever articles in the Way Rag that are NOT about: 1. Following your leaders is the key to anything good 2. Why living in TWI is so cool 2. Planning (Ironic as TWI directs so much of your daily life. But it's still your fault when the plan fails) 3. Recruiting new Way people (Getting born again or living for God outside of TWI is NOOOOOt enough!) 4. Vague direction to "believe" for things without instruction on how exactly that works. 5. Sugar-coated reports about goings-on in TWI-land. "The Way Disciples were moving forward with the Word by... blah blah blah. [insert example of glassy-eyed follower gushing about how they hoodwinked unsuspecting recruit prospect to come to their house not long after arriving in Palookahville" Did I leave a topic out?

ckeer, Very funny titles! Care to do the rest of the collaterals?

Hmm... like a phone book? The white pages would be the plagiarized material. The yellow pages would be the erroneous section. And the blue pages would be the useful information. Does that proportion sound about right?

WWW, What does go on in those meetings? Always been kind of curious.

Should I feel bad that the question for this thread still makes me laugh out loud? Schuks, I missed your arrival. Welcome to the Cafe'!

Anyone in or recently departed know how they do assignments now? Everyone seems to have put down roots in their state. Well, as rooted as you can be while moving from rental to rental.

dmiller, ROTFLMAO! Plenty of "hot Bible", plenty o' food (that you paid for) and plenty of places to sit (no pun intended)! Let's see, latest WayRag... Insurgent, any more articles read yet?

Exie, I agree. Both dehumanize the person and leave them isolated in more ways than one. They both also have the wonderful effect of making the victim the one who feels bad about the crime. On the subject of VPs book, maybe Refiner could write HIS own? Just take the copy he purchased, change the name to Powerful and Abundant Lifestyle, redo the font and voila'! He has a new outreach ministry, income and literary work. And he gets his investment back. Life is good. ;-)

Learning, I'm not surprised. It seems like each corps person felt it was ok to mold things to fit them. We had one LC who couldn't use a concordance without a LOT of effort. (Not a terribly bright guy) He put a lot of emphasis on outreach and not much on research or teaching. Another was a research nut (said in a good way) so we spent hours in his TC meetings. (Did he have to tell us EVERYTHING he was thinking about?!) Same with holidays, etc. Each one seemed to see us as his own little MOGdom. At least the last few weren't screamers so that was an improvement. :-| JT

CC, They were LCs when I bailed about a 1 1/2 years ago. TN maybe?

George, It may not happen till they come close to retirement age and get tossed. Tragic.

Bob, 3-5 used to be normal. However, when I left, some had been in place much longer. (My friends LC had been there for about 10 or 11 years) Not sure why. Cheaper than moving them? I wouldn't be surprised if some states were so shaky that it was risky to change anything. Does anyone know why they started parking people in states instead of their old policy?

Way back, I am pretty sure you're not alone here. My first twig was pretty similar. I thought the twig leader was a giant in biblical scholarship. His teachings were stuffed with Bible verses unlike your typical mass. That ended when I got to know him later and realized he was just good at memorizing teachings. In fact, he was a VPW-clone in many ways. Used his mannerisms, phrases, etc. Kind of spooky. On the positive side, I did meet quite a few who were talented, educated and knowledgeable. To bad TWI generally saw those folks as a threat when they actually used their brains to think on their own.

Ex, Jesus wept. (How's that for short?) By the way, MLM is Multi-Level Marketing. You make money off of your business and the people you recruit to be below you in the organization. Amway is a well-known example.

Nope. ;-)