JustThinking

Oak, I am honored! :-) Maybe a satellite campus? The OutofTheWay Campus of Imboringem? Camp Funnyson? Barfmore, Scotland?

Dan, UH, He could take the afternoon to show us pictures of... ewww, never mind. Ugh! Need Maalox, TUMS, anything. Going to be sick...

Would VP & Me fall into this category?

I willingly give up all of my accrediting powers and turn them over to the weenie roast lords.

Oak, LOL! It is as funny as it is sad as it is true. Communication = I speak, you listen. Phone hookup = infant immobility test

Exie, LMAO! :-) JT

TWI I term: Twig coordinator = leads small group of TWI adherents. TWI II term: Fellowship coordinator = One who writes down everything BC tells him/her to do.

Exie, Bad girl! ;-)

Ex 10, You are very welcome. "people that I introduced to the corporation became zealous idiots, and corps nazis and such things. But I guess that's just people...." They certainly had a lot of encouragement to behave that way. Belle's comment about the "Dead Sea" is poignant and spot on. All of my twigs/fellowships in the 90s fit that description. However, I do remember a time when TWI seemed more like what you described. Or maybe I was less wayferish? Egad, what a thought! The nice thing is, now that I'm out, I find it is so much more fun to talk to others about God. People are no longer potential piffle targets are just people. Sure are a lot of nice christians out there. A few here too. :-) JT

I think if you get a doctoral degree, one has to bring TWO dishes to the weinie roast. That way it's established. ;-)

DM, I have one more question: I have already made myself an accrediting authority according to VPs doctoral standards. Would you like to be a university? It's free. ;-)

Mike quote: "SHAME ON YOU! Not asking these kinds of questions, shooting off at the mouth, and running with mob feelings help religion to be very stinky!" You wonder if I asked these questions then before I can respond take me to task for not asking? You, sir, are impatient and inconsiderate and therefore undeserving of further response.

WW, On another thread, I made myself able to provide accreditation on the same grounds as your doctoral degree. I therefore am able to establish Year2027 as being authorized to grant such degrees. It is really official now. Except that I should probably collect some money from someone... ;-)

Oak, Sad but true. Well, we can fix this in a jiffy. Self-accreditation is apparently acceptable for some. Therefore, I have accredited myself to review other's accreditation. After spending countless (because I wasn't counting) hours reviewing the evidence, I have revoked VP's doctoral degree which didn't exist in the first place. There, VP is no longer a doctor. Raf, any decaf left? JT

Gee, VP never called BG Leonard this fast to apologize and remove all plagiarized material. JT

His degree is from a non-accredited school. Why is this even open for debate?

International Outreach = Donna and Rosie on vacation in Barbados

Hmm... where did we start this thread? Oh yeah... WaterBuffalo asked: "...then why were all of the Christian books that were read and quoted by the teachers at Emporia and used to back up Way doctrine written by TRINITARIANS (other than vps stuff, of course)? Just wondered if anyone else had ever wondered the same thing." I was told or given the impression that ALL of the vicster's work was original so it never dawned on me that he would use anything from a trinitarian or anyone else for that matter. My first TC told us that DocVic learned some keys from others but really played down contributions from others. They helped the great Vic in the way that a much lesser player gives some minor tip to the great team superstar.

Oak's original question: "But if Wierwille was the adulterous, plagiarizing, scam artist that he appears to have been, why would anyone take anything he said at face value? If his standard practice was to lie and cheat, if he his way of life was to use people, why would any of his teachings be kept and revered as truth?" I think Mike has given us the answer. VP used the ultimate con man's tool: God and pseudo-logic. First, tell them it all came from God and define the debate if questioned. Part one is simple. Claim, or better yet hint, that everything you do is inspired/guided/spoken by God but make it mysterious by giving veiled explanations. This prevents you from being pinned down. You can always give more of the story (which conveniently fits the facts) later to back yourself up. That will fool many genuinely honest people who are trusting. References to "lost teachings", "hidden messages in teachings" and sketchy details is a red flag. Step two: Use something that sounds like logic but isn't. On one hand God taught VP Da Verd like it hasn't been known, etc. Yet we are told to work it for ourselves. Are we allowed to contradict the BASIC tenets of VP? Not on your life because God taught it to him like it hasn't been known... yada yada yada. Key thing to accomplish for the group is to send the conned person back to "work it" only after basic terms and approach have been modified by the group. Voila'! He or she doesn't even realize they're in the web yet. They are ensnared nonetheless. The thing that makes me sad is the end result for some. Hopelessly trying to prop up a dying delusion, they see the the failings of the system as their own. "If I just had worked it harder." "It was my fault." "Oh, if we had only listened closer." This, to me, is one of the greatest wrongs of TWI inflicted on it's people. I'm thankful for my fellow Greasespotters who help keep folks from falling any further into this.

Rise to the Word, Expand to the World = Do we what we tell you and pretend that we're growing. New person = Someone who hasn't left yet and can still think for themselves. Old Grad = Someone who took a foundational class without a screaming teacher.

Raf, Details, details. ;-)

Hope, We could have been in the same fellowship. I concur 100% including the non-witnessing BC. There was NO enthusiasm for anything TWI did. Your comment about it eventually being an embarrassment really nails it. My time was all TWI-II. JT

Steve! Unscathed!!!!! JT

Grizzy quote from the Alpha/Omega logo thread: "Bears are NOT affiliated with CES!!!!!! " See, bears used to be with CES which made them copouts in LCM's mind. Therefore, lighting them would have been God's will in the OT... OMG, I can actually hear his voice saying something this stupid. :-( Yuck, I need coffeee...

Ex10, My impression was that you are not alone on both fronts. Sorry if I brought up a bad memory for you. It probably shouldn't be a surprise that as the corps became more dictatorial that less and less people responded to them. (In AND out of TWI). It seemed like a good idea to try to (at least in our own unscientific way) poll the crowd to see if others had the same experience. If it's any consolation, you've been a pleasure for me here. Even if it doesn't make up for the bad memories. JT