JustThinking

Shaz, I didn't really see it as "kindler and/or gentler" so much as more cautious. The leaders meetings on the field reminded me of a bunker mentality. There was NO indication of "gee, maybe we didn't do a good job..." None at all! Like many groups who don't know what to do in a crisis, they resorted to going to the other extreme. Cirle the wagons and appear as unthreatening and vanilla as possible to avoid controversy. The end result is a dull, lifeless environment that made even hard core wayfers yawn. If it were a company, I would say they had no product to sell but were trying desperately to come up with SOMETHING. Kind of like buggy whip makers after the car came out. They can't actually expain their reason to exist. Their problem (IMO) is that the whole business was based on a promoting a cult of personality. Unfortunately, Rosie ain't gonna cut it so now what? Tread water until they can come up with something better. If I had to guess, they are working on a new foundational class that tries to "get back to basics" and erases Craig from the walls of Egypt, oops, Zion. They'll probably pull out the most soft spoken, Osmond-like, photogenic Corps person they have and put him/her in front of the camera. (With all apologies to the Osmond family) -- Are they still required to witness? Yes but it was different. It was more group attacks than two-by-two. There just aren't enough people to do it with any regularity any more. It was pretty common for every excuse in the book to get pulled out to avoid the "witness draft." It is easier to get out of than it used to be. They seem very worried about holding on to what's left of the witless remnant. -- Do they have to fill out "Redeem the Time" sheets? Only the corpse, if that. When your whole branch is about 20 people, it's pretty easy to watch them. -- Does leadership still breathe down their necks, poke into their personal lives? Ditto. If there is a local herd, it's probably very small. And the people left are so conditioned to tell everything about their life that they don't even have to force it anymore. There was some pulling back from that though after Craig was shown the door. Now the corpse was a very different story. Still lots of documenting your whole life. So, yes, there were many surface changes. The thought process is the same though. If they ever start to grow again, they still have a base of well-trained Wayferbots. It will likely be a repeat of the early 90s when Craig was Mr. Nice guy for a while then reverted to form. While there is less focus on giving of time, there is still a lot of focus on giving of money. Most plugs for Corpse, Wayward disciples, etc. all come across as a bore. Everyone has heard it 9 million times. The average age is really getting up there so the size of each group is very small. Those doing it are mostly a few people who going in the corpse (which means it is mandatory) or the kids of the die-hard old grads. Almost no new young people going in on their own. If they manage to scrape together 3 new people for a class (lowered from 7), you can bet that at least one or two will be kids of old grads. In my last three years, all of our new students were wayfer kids with one exception. Of the few people in our state who did take Craig's class, not one single person stayed more than a year. It really is the same old bunch. What else can I tell you?

Shaz, I have been out just under 2 years. Is that close enough? JT

Ex10, I don't think it's a small thing. If it's the power of God then it's a big deal. JT

Oak, Was that the first corps that got sent home which LCM so lovingly called the "zero" corps? Or was that the one VP allowed to stay? JT

Great example, OM, thank you. TWI taught that Solomon's lifestyle ultimately brought down Israel. Your choice was perfect!

Not only was the water stolen but it also had salt added to "hook" the buyer. Just taking PFAL was NEVER preesented as an option. Nope, you got swarmed immediately to buy the next one.

Rascal, Don't forget that she also bears responsibility. After all, that man has no power over her that she does not allow him to have. She was an adult and should have believed to not be in that situation in the first place.

Oh my! Was that a criticism of the all-knowing Board of MisDirectors? Say 10 Hail Vics for that one buddy.

Why didn't they just say "We own you?" It would have been more honest.

Goey, Bullseye! Well said. JT

Bob, The Laws and the profits went back to TWI. ;-)

OM, Let me add that I am not trying to be harsh. Your post just comes across as someone who has made up his/her mind and is looking for validation of one's own views. You are certainly welcome to have them but you start off in your title by telling me I'm already wrong. It is hard to feel, at that point, that you really want to consider my view. JT

Wow, one loaded or misleading question or statement after another: "We learned God's Word in TWI." First, not everyone agrees with you. Second, "God's Word" is a wayferism that means different things to different people. Does that mean the printed Bible, the Bible as interpreted (or whatever you want to call it) by Vic Weirwille's borrowed material or something else? "Not everything we were taught is the truth, but what is truth, is truth, and is God's will for us to know and believe. There are some basic truths we learned in twi that are common Christian beliefs." Here again, I'm sure you believe you learned truth in TWI. For me, I probably got more wrong information than right. It has taken a lot to sift through it and am still going. PJ is right, IMO, that it can be almost impossible to pull out all the weeds because there were so many. As for them being common Christian beliefs, there does not seem to be one other Christian group that agrees with them. Which Christians do you mean exactly? "And so I wonder why some folks find it wrong that some folks cling on to these truths, even though mindful of sins committed in twi." I can't speak for others but I personally don't care what you believe or don't. "I think some folks think we who still believe these truths, should renounce them, because of the evil deeds of some in twi. Are folks like myself being selfish because we refuse to renounce our beliefs?" Nice trick question. Ask in such a way as to only allow an answer that appears to back you up. If I say you are selfish: I would be saying you should give up your beliefs because I say so. Hardly defensible. If I say you are not selfing: I appear to be supporting your views. Very good! You win either way. "I just don't get it, so I'd like to know if there are any biblical or logical viewpoints out there that throwing the baby out with the bathwater is something God expects of us? That we should renounce our beliefs because of the evils of twi? I checked my concordance and the word "bath water" does not appear to be in there. Another trick question but not nearly as good as the others. Who is really going to say "I think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater?" They may agree with your view or, as PJ said, feel that there is either no baby there or it is hopelessly intermixed. Regardless, I doubt anyone has actually said that to you. It is more likely simply your interpretation of their view. If you can point to a response to you where someone has actually recommended that in those words, please do so. "That those folks who choose to do so, should feel ashamed, for retaining and being thankful for learning the Wuuuuuurd, even though others got hurt in twi ... " I can't remember anyone here ever saying you should feel ashamed for having a particular belief. Could you please point us to a thread where someone said exactly that? Not something you took that way but was exactly put to you that way? Your interpretation would be unfair to attribute to someone so a link to their post would be better. JT

Is it true that photo of them will be put on a commemorative stamp? ;-)

And don't forget those other classic titles: Power for Abusing Ladies (PFAL. The One that started it all!) with the accompanying works: The Lawyer Tells Me So The Non-Dynamic Church The Weirwille Way God's Magnified Me Order My Stuff Right Away

I left when I wanted, how I wanted and in the manner I chose. Nobody convinced me to leave or kicked me out. I simply made the call and informed I would not be returning. No drama, no arguments. The LC, BC, etc. had no bearing on my decision at all. JT

Good morning Exie! (Sorry all for the segue)

I happen to know that the Gorton Fisherman is a very Godly man. He has served fish to more people than Jesus himself! ;-)

Too many things in my life that God has done for me to believe in coincidences any more. Shaz has a point though. This seems like it belongs in the doctrinal section.

WayferNot!, So you are saying that a cold-hearted, money-grubbing witch who speaks in tongues is less impressive to God than a kind, sincere person who truly loves Him but speaks in English? You are obviously not in a prevailing mindset. Reread all of your collaterals while staring at a picture of the Board Of Dustys until you've renewed your mind. ;-)

I have seen the revised title here before: Christians Should Be Preposterous

Belle, Was the example you gave the numbers that TWI used? If so, Outandabout has a good point. ??? JT

What the heck happened to my font? It's huge! Oh, wait, I must be prevailing now. ;-) Seriously, why did that happen?

Dan, Arggghhhh... the infamouse Captain, he is. Leader of the ship of fools, only interested in the net profits from the sail of bounty. ;-) If he becomes the mascot, I want royalties.

TWI certainly did a great job of training them to follow blindly.