diazbro

Hmmm. I know that when I indicated a preference for going to College over going WOW I got an extensive lecture (aka reaming) on the concept of "worldly knowledge" and how I would be wasting my time pursuing the "knowledge of men". I was even led to believe that by placing college over WOW that I might be opening myself up to "devil spirits" (the default Way argument). I'm glad I ignored them. What drove it home for me was during my second time through PFAL. They had signed up a local physician, (someone's Father I think), and altered the class start time to jibe with his schedule - something they would never do for "Joe believer". Anyway, I could not understand why it was okay to elevate this guy, (who most certainly went to College), while simultaneously telling people to stay away from higher learning. Of course it was because they could use his status as a physician to promote TWI. I didn't even bother to bring up this massive inconsistency in behavior to anyone. It would have been pointless and a waste of time and energy. This event did solidify my plans to depart TWI although it was more of a gradual exit as opposed to a single event.

Forgiveness is an evergreen topic. Here is my take on The Way's 'version'. I've noticed that some of the more aggressive and obnoxious people I've encountered want others to forgive them. They want to be let off the hook and will many times invoke the concept of forgiveness to strong arm others into doing it. Its self serving. People should forgive only when it feels right and they have had the time to put things into perspective. In absence of that one might offer forgiveness without a full understanding of what they are forgiving. Look at it this way. God could have forgiven Adam and Eve on the spot and hit the reset button though he did not. It took time for the prophecies to be fulfilled and the concept of the new birth to manifest. There was a passage of time before we could "relink" or reconcile to God as before. I feel the same concept applies in our daily lives. I'm naturally inclined to forgive though I want the person(s) I'm forgiving to understand their role in the situation just as God did with humanity. For me if someone is insistent or being pushy about it then its a sign of a guilty conscience on their part. They want it all to be over so they can move on. But if you offer it to quickly you might be cheating yourself. Take your time, search your heart, and offer the forgiveness at the appropriate moment - NOT because someone is demanding it. And, if I'm the one who needs the forgiving then I want to indicate to the person I've harmed to realize that I'm owning my part. That I'm not attempting to minimize the offense. Once we have an understanding that's when forgiveness can work its near magical transformation and restoration.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose..... First, if you want to talk to a real expert on "faking it" then maybe you should talk to my ex wife. What a pro. As for me the "mannies", especially interpretation and prophecy, "worked" to the extent that a person had pre-saturated their thinking in the bible and way teachings. If you have a number of pre-compiled stock expressions, phrases, and ideas floating around in your brain then it is possible to produce, on demand, a reasonably coherent statement that approximates something original. As for me, most of the interpretations and prophecy I heard always sounded like something I had heard previously at Twig. Practice makes perfect and those excellor sessions seemed to reinforce that. (However, one notes that there were never excellor sessions for the advanced class at least to the best of my knowledge). I recall the PFAL session where Vic was saying his "Lo Shanta Mala Kacita" and during session 12 you would hear some "lo shantas" being uttered around the room which sort of supports the idea that many were appropriating, perhaps unconsciously, the words of Vic. Many here, myself included, encountered the idea of SIT in advance of their experience with TWI. Though I won't claim that the "the tongues" sounded drastically different from those I heard while in TWI. I recall the oft-repeated story that someone heard their native language being spoken during a believer's meeting. Of course the person relating the story was never the party in question. It was always "a friend" or someone's "Wow brother". Not saying it never happened but could never seem to run into anyone who claimed it firsthand. Now, I did experience something interesting relative to healing. I had a medical problem at one point that was so arcane and bizarre that most physicians I encountered didn't know anything about it. They had to look it up - thus for a layman to have knowledge of it, even incidental, was highly improbable. Even to articulate it, even in non medical terms, would have been difficult. And this was like ages ago so there was no Internet or casual access to the deluge of information waiting behind a web surfing session. Anyway a friend of mine in TWI, (a young man at the time wo was barely out of high school), ministered to me upon my request. Actually, he was kind of nervous about it as he didn't really have much experience with it but within like a minute he nailed the problem in a specific, succinct, and completely unambiguous fashion. As he was praying he paused before stating the problem because, (as he later told me), he thought it way too strange to even mention. But he got it dead on. 35 years or so down the line I'm still trying to put that one into perspective. Interestingly, I never had another experience like that.

Johnny, Okay DUDE.... (or "BRUH") I don't see it as a trick or a scam. Maybe he did have a casual social encounter which led to the revelation (no pun intended) that the guy at the gym or whereever used to function as a general with a controversial religious organization. Fine. But what I'm seeing now is some very strange almost voyeuristic need for some Gspotters to hang onto every word this poster has to say. Whats next "What color workout clothes was Craig wearing when you last saw him ? Did he say what his favorite TV show was ? Did he speak about anyone in particular ? Oh please tell us Freud ! Its so important. Did he say anything about homos ? ". Seems to me that some still very much care about what LCM does and thinks to the extent that they are willing to accept any and all information that someone wants to offer as the equivalent as "gold" or some special insight into the mind of some bully. Do people really need to know if Craig is living in, for example, an apartment or is "underemployed" ? Does that mean that much to anyone aside from trivia value ? Does it change the fact that he was a cult leader who treated many abusively ? I don't think so. But if someone needs an anonymous poster to "fill in the blanks" about what Craig has been doing in some period of years okay. But don't ask me to treat this person like he has "the words" to provide some type of key information that will drastically change things. It is weird, in my opinion, that someone would show up and start talking about experiences with LCM and ,worse, call him(her)self "Freud" as if they were in some elevated position to offer perspective and advice on how Craig was getting along. Its just another "bloke" on the internet as far as I'm concerned. What's next ? Someone is going to call me a "LCM lover" because I don't want to hang on to every word that a new arrival has to say about him ? I readily accept the fact that there is interest in what this poster has to say and I share that interest. I genuinely do. But I pose some basic questions about this person and others act as if I have offended the very source all true knowledge - as if my questions would offend Freud and he would stop posting thus depriving us of all those salacious details about LCM. Give me a freakin' break ! Its cool if he/she wants to post and as I've said, oh for the third time now, I'm not trying to stop that ! The fact that I don't care about Freud's post as much as others might appears to be a major source of irritation but so be it. If you want to hang onto every post that Freud has to say as if it were the latest installment in some prime time soap opera than by all means have it. But don't make the mistake that everyone has a similar compulsion. Yeah , Johnny, that *wasn't* a shout. Make no mistake about it..

Thanks for the unsolicited analysis though I didn't really request one. As I've stated I am curious to know more about Mr. Freud and his motivations. The fact that you know all you need to know is fine by me. I'm happy to see where they lead. Living vicariously through Freud to get insight into Craig's current state of affairs is bit interesting and it does seem to have a certain appeal amongst the Gspot crowd. I'm not attempting to stop that. Says who ?

Err Waybrain ? I call it natural, healthy skepticism but to each his own.

As I've said , I don't have a problem with the continued posting. I would like to know more about WHY he/she/they is/are posting. For example I know lots about the Boston Church of Christ (later the International Church of Christ) which is widely regarded as a cult. Yet I don't post vague references about myself on their recovery websites and claim to have an nteraction with former leaders of that organization. I suppose I could but there would need to be motivation to do so. Anyway from what I have read I have concluded there is an attempt to represent LCM as a fallen man and perhaps that is true but Freud won't tell us much about himself and keeps things vague which doesn't appear to be a concern for most though it is for me. Perhaps your curiousity surrounding Freud has been satisfied but mine hasn't. Why would you have a problem with that ? I'm not attempting to block posts , call in a moderator, or call for an inquisition.

Okay but Freud mentioned that he didn't really know much about TWI and even if he did meet LCM why the interest in getting people here to accept the image of LCM as a remorseful man ? What is his (or her) stake in all this ? What is the payoff ?

Whether or not Freud, Jung are on the level does't bother me so much. But I do wonder why someone with no interest in TWI wants to post and ,furthermore, assume the role of an analyst in an apparent attempt to "reconcile" us to LCM. Some people have more time than others - so be it but I stand by my earlier opnions about LCM's alleged personal sorrow and pain. If he does feel this way it is only because he got booted from the limelight and his exalted position. NOT of out any sense of having done wrong to anyone. I know enough about human nature to know that the bully types seldom come around and never face the music about their abusive approach.

I once presented a question to leadership about te disparity between the number and frequency of miracles described in the New Testament and the current times we live in. I had just completed PFAL and was sure that the signs and miracles would start coming on a daily basis. After all the green card promised all manner of wonderful results from taking PFAL. Before I submitted my question I asked around to people to see if they were healing and getting healed in a miraculous fashion. I quickly learned that many of us new grads weren't seeing those "signs and miracles" at least comparable to those found in the Bible. I also quickly learned that those who had been in TWI longer were much more inclined to call simple things "miracles". If your sore throat went away in a couple of days that was a miracle. If you found a parking spot at the Mall near the entrance then that was a mircale and so on. So these people would tell you that their day was full of miracles but I wasn't buying it. Their standards for what constitutes a miracle were quite low. So I submitted my question and at the same time told the Branch person what I had done. He didn't like it saying that it wasn't even a good question especially since I had just graduated PFAL and didn't know anything about applying the principles of God's word to get the true abundance. It sounded like a dodge then and it definitely does now. He told me that if I wanted to see miracles that I would have to learn about prosperity via the concept of abundant sharing - that God couldn't help me until I gave God his due on a financial basis. Man, I was floored. I had just completed PFAL and they are telling me that I have to give money to get health , miracles, God's respect ? So my experience with "Getting answers" seemed to be directly related to first giving money to TWI before I could expect anything from God. Some ministry huh ?

Guys like LCM seldom if ever reach a point of contrition in their lives. The depression and sadness they experience is typically the result of having lost influence and not being in the limelight anymore. Their sadness and pain is based on their loss of stature and certainly not out of regret for having hurt anyone. Were LCM to be somehow restored to his previous position he would pick up where left off and might in fact become worse as he would see it as God's work and think "Hey if I were really that bad then God wouldn't have brought me back. Now I'll REALLY clean house". I always think of LCM as the bully type who abused others and saw it as something that was necessary for him to maintain control over the situation. The fact that he had to resort to obscentiies, screaming, and hatred of others (homosexuals, non Way participants "corpses") shows only that his self-image was fragile enough to be threatended by any number of personal demons (in a figurative sense) and insecurities. I am aware that LCM used to play up his jock image but he really didn't get much playing time in college so for him to be calling the shots at the TWI was catch-up time for him. Also LCM was very vain and when he started losing his hair I think he got worse - like he had to prove that he could still "score" or that he had to keep proving that he was "the prez".

Even then you never stick to the topic. You get boxed in an try to move on to something else. Its an indirect way of crying uncle.

The "word of god" that "Dr Wierwille was teaching" was in most cases stolen from someone else. And in those cases it was just the works of other men. This explains a lot such as why you were/are so powerfully attracted to self-proclaimed spiritual leaders. Basically you are confessing that even before your time with TWI that you were very accustomed to participating in absolute, demanding organizations that left no gray areas.

Yep. Trying that sidestep once again. You never stick to the topic OM.

I was never comfortable with the model that believers should be "asking Father" about every minute detail in life - what clothes to wear, where to park the car, what food to prepare for dinner, who to speak to first in a group, what to say on a job interview. This concept promoted a very childish existence wherein the believer had some umbilical cord and to God and couldn't function on their on without continual reliance upon some greater force to tell them what to do in life. Imagine if we reared our children like that - to always be asking us for advice in every little thing. They would never grow and develop problem solving skills and the self-confidence that comes with self-reliance. God gave us brains and intellect and he expects us to develop and use them. Sure. we all run into situations that present a dilemma but making mistakes are part of life and shouldn't be seen as evidence of not being godly or in fellowship. Seems to me that the person who seeks continual advice from God for all of life's details surely must be fearful since they cannot trust themselves to make a decision independently.