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The Way, Inc. [1957] was a splinter group. Mrs. Wierwille's book documents that her husband was "thrilled" to sit in Rev. B.G. Leonard's foundational class, The Gifts of the Spirit, in 1953. Months later, wierwille (again), with two carloads of students made the trek to Calgary, Alberta to take this class in June/July of 1953. And then after wierwille's 2nd class sit-thru, he drives home to Van Wert with visions of a class-based teaching ministry dancing in his head. By October, 1953.....wierwille is off and running "his own class." Phasing in a Splinter: Acquire the Mantle of "Teaching the Word".........*weekly sustenance of what you teach needs faithful attendance and adherence. Establish a Hierarchy of Leadership and Spiritual System for others to climb.......*spiritual elites are not accountable to followers. Secure a Central Headquarters.......harnessing the one point of allegiance from which teachings, outreach and service emanate. The R&R group is off to a running start with teaching a vast amount of twi's foundation........but will take strategic steps to tweak the things that twi got wrong!! Sound familiar? It should: that's exactly what wierwille did. They will teach 90% (??) of what wierwille established.......and avoid like the plague issues like wierwille's plagiarism, drunkenness, sexual predation, complicity to spiritual abuse, hoarding of abs, etc. So, they will endeavor to re-create the good ole days in the early 70s with wierwille.......dismissing all the red flags that caused men like Heefner, Doop, Wade, to exit over 40 years ago. Phase #1 is the easy step. Phase #2 is going to be much more challenging. With peers in this party, who is going to rise up and take on the mantle of alpha-male? Without a system of classes, camps, central location, money collection, goals, agenda............where is this railroad going? Teaching is NOT enough to sustain the headwinds of inertia. People WILL fade away......into family life, careers, interests, health issues and death. If there is no overwhelming agreement on hierarchy, lots of these corps will head for the exit doors. And besides, if they don't capture the youth's idealism and zealous support......this new splinter will be little more than your local book club supporters. Phase #3 of Securing a Central Headquarters [BRC/Church].....like CFF, Finnegan's group, Hendricks group, etc......is essential. Maybe Dottie Moynihan will open up her family wealth's checkbook and give a hefty donation.....or one of the others. But....just to be having weekly teachings on Facebook is going to fizzle.......soon. Teachings going out into the ethereal of humanity will NOT alone sustain the human spirit. I highly suspect that MANY of these self-appointed corps have been planning these phases already!!! These guys and gals are not stupid, misguided yes, but not stupid. They will need a location in the next two years, maximum. As this Revival and Restoration group casts off the yoke of bondage from mothercult.......it will be very interesting to see how many want to get their butts back into chairs for leaders' meetings, classes, camps and night owls. LOL. My money is on the Horneys taking the mantle............... .

Surely you knew that I was aware you were citing scripture when you spoke of the foolishness of God being wiser than men. Nonetheless, you don't get to leap from that assertion to the "claim" that my accusation of arrogance is unfounded. My accusation of arrogance is WELL-founded, and I outlined exactly why. Declaring your own position to be wise and alternative positions to be foolish is arrogant. It is arrogant whether you are doing it of your own spontaneous thought or if you are citing the scribblings of a 2,000-year-old itinerant preacher. The source of your claim is not what made it arrogant. The substance is. I am not going to sit here and wait for you do spell out exactly why you came to the conclusion that it makes sense there would be no remission of sin without the shedding of blood. It's YOUR claim. When you can articulate it, I'll be here. Simply stating that I will not be satisfied with your answer is a dodge. Articulate your answer. Then you can fault me for rejecting it. I am going to refer back to our earlier discussion on this, however, because I think it is significant: You just wrote: "it is not so difficult to think of eternal life's quality being far more significant and important than the trials and tribulations in the proving time of the temporal life currently bestowed upon us." In doing so, you are presuming eternal life, which is your prerogative, but there is no evidence that there is any such thing for any species. So to draw conclusions from it is wonderful as a matter of faith, but it does little or nothing to contribute to a discussion with someone who is not convinced there is any such thing. Further, and I've said this before, looking at this temporal life from an eternal perspective opens the door to defending all manner of atrocity, as this temporal life of necessity becomes of no value compared to eternity. So Abel gets murdered. So what? He has eternal life now. Job's kids? Eternal life! That dude who got killed for picking up sticks on the wrong day of the week? Don't worry, buddy. I know those great big rocks hurt, but look on the bright side: you're going to paradise! Ananias and Sapphira get insta-death penalty for holding back money from the church, but they're born again! So, bygones! Any atrocity can be dismissed in significance if you look at things from an eternal perspective. That's not really an answer to the questions we've been raising here. It's a dismissal of them. Why didn't God warn Abel? Because it makes no difference from the eternal perspective. WOW! If that's going to be the answer to everything, then this "eternal life" thing had better be rock-solid guarandamteed. It's not. It's a wishful-thinking claim made by people who struggled to come to terms with the finality of death. Every culture struggles with the question. Every culture concocts a different answer. All claim evidence to support their mutually exclusive answers.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScnnN16EPBZRC4d3d03ABEV7eeiI6MuKa0fCfXrJdy SfzEk4A/viewform?c=0&w=1 Lets ask away.

The circles along the path tell you only where the storm's eye is going to be and when it's going to be there. It is of little importance to anyone deciding whether or not to be prepared. Hurricane force winds are extending 70 miles out from the center, and tropical storm force winds are out nearly 200 miles. So that's about 350-400 miles of really nasty weather taking aim for the Carolinas. From that perspective, the circles along the path aren't telling you anything of practical value. A circle with an M means it's a major hurricane (category 3 or higher). A circle with an H means it's category 1 or 2. A circle with a T means tropical storm, and a circle with a D means tropical depression. By the time you see a T or D, there's no longer an "eye."

This is looking ugly. Please be advised that I am writing this at 5 p.m. eastern on Sept. 12. The map attached will change over time, so what I write now may not be reflected in what you see depending on when you read this. I've lived through a few of these storms, including Irma last year, but here in South Florida we're a bit better prepared for this. We expect these storms now and then. We have very few hills, which means very few valleys, which means flooding is not the monster issue here that it can be in places like the Carolinas. I wouldn't trade places with the Carolinas right now for anything. This forecast has a major hurricane parked just offshore starting Thursday, weakening to "just" a hurricane as it makes landfall 8 a.m. Saturday. It appears from the forecast that those north of the storm will be harder hit than those south, but the coast of both Carolinas are about to take a beating the likes of which they have not seen in quite some time. By contrast, every storm I've lived and worked through has come and gone in a matter of hours (as few as five, as many as 18). I'm not going to repeat all the advice you've probably been hearing for days already. When this is over, we'll be posting the best places to send aid for those who need it most. Stay safe.

Yes I too have a ministry - and it seems to be ever-evolving... A few of the objectives of my ministry pertinent to this discussion are: Expose the insidious nature of TWI’s doctrine and practice Help those who want to understand the nature of the mental blindness caused by TWI’s indoctrination (see Matthew 6:22 & 23). Inspire and encourage others to continually develop critical thinking skills Appreciate the viewpoints and input of others, no matter how different they may be from my own Continue to develop empathy with others (as one of the ways I can live the 2nd great commandment love thy neighbor as thyself).

That’s probably a safer way to check things out… …I’ve found from my experience with a cult, the more involved you get with the group the more they sink their claws into you; it’s called organizational entanglement. I think that’s why the mass exodus after the passing of a turd paper came out was comprised mostly of a lot of corps. We were the deeply committed and involved ones who experienced firsthand the “wear and tear” of the cult’s life-sucking machinations…I imagine for a long time prior, there were a variety of reasons to leave building up in the hearts of many – and perhaps the aftermath of the turd paper – which I think was the first truly big challenge to the power structure of TWI - was merely the tipping point in many folks’ minds - finally deciding to actually leave TWI… …while at the same time you had most of the faithful followers down at the local fellowship level scratching their heads wondering what the hell was going on – “how come all these corps people tripped out?”; corps were like a buffer zone, that insulated the lower levels from a lot of those life-sucking machinations…often softening any “mandates” issued from HQ, being a good sales rep for whatever HQ was “selling”, absorbing the costs (time and resources) of keeping classes and events operational and generally doing this with a good attitude because we thought we were serving God and the one true ministry…yeah, just sucking it up in the daily grind as long as that feel-good-pablum gets doled out to the masses and they keep that money rolling in to HQ. ...so anyway...if you happen to get more involved with them let me know of your experience.

I'm not terribly worried about it. But, the ban is permanent. I can't edit any articles, let alone the TWI one. It is what it is. I don't think there are too many people looking up TWI anyway. But, like I said earlier, I'm a truck driver. I've got more important things to do than argue with the folks over at wikipedia. It was a fun run while it lasted, though.

Thanks, Grace. I appreciate your concern, and I am being careful. I'm not personally involved with them, I just listen to the teachings on Sundays, just as I listen to teachings from others.

Well......Steven Longley has a long road of learning ahead. Charlene's book, Undertow.......could go a long way in showing him that twi's "research department" had been hamstrung by wierwille since the early 1980s. Perhaps, Steven (11th corps grad - 1983) didn't see the revolving door at the research department as so many talented individuals left. IMO........All of wierwille's ballyhoo circled his wagons around 1) research, 2) teaching, and 3) fellowship in a twisted version of wierwilleology, a first cousin of scientology. Research the dots and squibbles in every Pauline verse.......teach it in the context of cult doxology........and gather together in meetings to fellowship around it. Maybe.......it's time to rejoice in "the simplicity that is in Christ." Maybe.......it's time to stop seeking positions of power as "researchers" and "teachers." Maybe.......it's time to unload trucks at Wheeler Mission. Maybe.......it's time to put on an apron and serve food at a homeless shelter. Maybe.......it's time to undo the heavy burdens and set at liberty them that are bruised. Maybe.......it's time to walk As He Is.

Thanks Taxidev.......appreciate your forthright answers. Steven Longley........the same who was part of the three amigos who taught twi's newest foundational class? Steven Longley John Rupp David Chavoiste (sp?) If I understand you correctly, you're saying that Steven Longley is now helping to spearhead the R&R teachings? WOW.......if that's the case then this last exodus of corps (and staff?) has cut deeper into the twi-cult than I've heard thus far. The board of directors must be seething over this.... NOW.......if this R&R group would EXPOSE the dirty secrets and gut the twi-cult. Proabably, will never happen. I only see another wierwille-splinter in the making.......(sigh)

Actually, you don't just get to say this and have it be true. That's arrogance. "My position is wise even if it makes no sense to you." Honestly, that's the definition of arrogance. Why demonstrate wisdom when you can have it conferred upon you by decree? Don't you see? Declaring that the foolishness of God is wiser than men innocculates you from the need to answer for the foolishness of your position? It goes like this: In order for us to have redemption, blood needs to be shed. Because that was the standard God set up. Because he did. No, he could not have set up any other standard, because that would not have been just. Why? Buh...buh...buh...buhcause! Why could God, who is Almighty, not set up a system of redemption that does not require bloodshed? I mean, I've got one at home with my kids. Not once have I had to execute a pet in order to atone for my sons being brats. And I certainly have never even considered killing one of my sons to atone for another's infractions! It makes no sense that an Almighty God should be unable to craft a less bloodthirsty method for redemption unless that God were SUBJECT to the principles of justice rather than being their AUTHOR. He who said that if a man sheds blood, by man his blood will be shed could just as easily have said if a man sheds blood he will serve an appropriate prison sentence, providing a service to the state that will be paid not to him but to the family of the person whose blood he shed. And it WOULD be just by virtue of His being the author of it, for He is the author, not the subject, of justice. RIGHT? Jesus never would have had to die. No one would. "The foolishness of God is wiser than men" absolves you of any need to even consider the validity of what I've just laid out. It is not a comeback, it is a dismissal, a self-affirming declaration of humility, intelligence, meekness and thoughtful reflection that is, in reality, none of those things.

C’mon Taxidev! You’ve been here long enough by now, to know that these whited sepulchers not only KNEW EVERYTHING dictor paul, da forehead, and every one of THEMSELVES DID, but also participated in them from the early 1970s until today AFAIK! Boob and Doody were thick as thieves with dictor and coward Allen back in the ECU days. They were both involved with the Putsch of March 1972 in HQ’s hostile takeover of The Way East. I know because I was THERE! Geer was the other cog in the putsch wheel. He made up the lies and false stories about the Heefners, the Perezs (Steve and Laurie) and all the leadership in NYC and Long Island, which were used by Moneyhands and coward allen and dictor, to cover up and smoothe over the hostile corporate takeover and rape of The Way East, a separate and independent 501(c)3 charitable corporation. Forts? Don’t even get me started. Horneys? Even worse! THEY ALL PIMPED FOR THE BOT AND THEMSELVES. And, just like every other splinter outfit, these morons either already have a good $$ stash stocked away from wealthy parents, or a good clientele of equally dysfunctional and disturbed brainwashed cultists who act as sugar daddies for these little whores just like John Lynn, Gerald Wrenn, Vince Finnegan, Doug Seed, SOWERS, and every other POS offshoot of the Mothercult in New Knoxville. They’re all moggies and mogettes! LOL! There is that certain requisite opulence which accompanies all those “gift ministries” dontchya know! These criminals pimped for dictor and the “trustees” from the early 1970s already. Then they pimped for da forehead and themselves. They paid for unwanted abortions by many of their sexual abuse victims. They stole millions of dollars from the faithful givers. They molested and raped hundreds upon hundreds of innocent women and girls! They drugged women to force themselves upon those women. They ordered the intimidation, harassment, and even physical violence against those who threatened them. They defamed, maligned, libeled, and slandered all who knew their M.O. They marked and avoided, isolated, financially decimated, abused and destroyed individuals, couples, and families without remorse or conscience. Many were alcoholics and guilty of domestic violence. Just about ALL of them were adulterers, liars, and thieves. They gave willfully false counsel and bore purposely false witness against innocents! Believers committed suicide because of their “counseling” practices and lockbox extortions! They ran a fraudulent criminal enterprise. That’s all they know how to do. They’ve been doing it for 46 years! They ain’t gonna stop now!!! LOL! The TRUTH only hurts those who oppose it or deny it. If these facts “hurt” you Taxidev, it may be that “inner man” urging you to lighten up on some of that possible (though well-meaning) denial of the truth shared here at the GSC. The RnR televangelists are as rotten as that tree they fed and watered for 46 years in Ohio. Dead tree. Rotten fruit. Lake of fire material, not “bema time”! Selah and Godspeed Taxidev.

No it doesn't. No more or less than the Qu'ran or the Book of the Dead or all sorts of other holy books. I chose "PFAL's criteria" because it is a common frame of reference. I could have said "inerrantists" and made the same point. A story can have "truth" without being "true." Back to superheroes: "With great power comes great responsibility" is a pretty decent life lesson. That it is the central lesson of a clearly fictional tale does not invalidate the lesson. Plenty of things in the Bible that are valuable lessons that do not rely on the stories themselves being true. Once you say "this story isn't literally true, but..." we are no longer in disagreement and there is simply nothing to discuss.

More input after reading the Q & A comments on the live feed. I'm figuring out what bothers me most about this live feed. I think it is the lack of authenticity. What I mean by that is they are all coming off like they are working within the ministry, confronting things with scripture according to the Word, sending in their ABS to HQ and all. That is 100% a lie. Behind the scenes they have already planned out a coup. They have already started a splinter group. They already have a website up at the link I posted earlier. Allison Horn3y will give out the password to it if people PM her. They all pretty much know they are going to be marked and avoided, and have known this from the 7 page letter they sent last year in August. And they have already planned out a new splinter ministry, with those folks sitting in the circle as the new leadership of the new splinter group. There were other folks in the audience that signed that letter, like Jason Cart3r's parents. What they are planning right now is the exact same thing people leaving have planned for the last 50 years. Take as many people with you that are conditioned to give 15% of their income as you can. Try and make it as seamless and transparent to the people moving from the Way to your splinter as you can. Yes. Another exodus. We can even gauge the impact of this one. Invitations to the Q and A session went out to approximately 1800 people. There are now about 180 people in the R&R splinter. So they will probably peel off about maybe 10% of remaining Way followers. Maybe 20%. The Way probably has about that many on its rolls (1800) in the United States, including a whole bunch of people who are on the list but not really into it. So you can't really split people off that don't really care - let's put the potential influence at 70% of that - because there really aren't that many new people that have joined over the last 20 years. That puts Way numbers at about 1200 - maybe they will pull 20 - 30% of people left. So to sum up, the Way with all of its forced outreach, doctrinal error teaching about how the Word moved because people followed a systematic outreach plan, has an overall measurable impact in the country it was founded in that is about parallel in numbers to a medium-large community church in a city. But in impact it would be measurably less because the momentum a 1200 person church gives you in a community is substantial. The Way's retention numbers are abysmal. On a basic human level, that is completely foreseeable and logical. It is proportional to how they treat people throughout their time in the Way. The Way treats people who have given their lives to the cause like dung. Always has. These people have no business founding a ministry. If they were genuine and honest about it, rather than doing the power grab run, they would leave, go to a seminary somewhere for a couple years, then graduate and do a church plant with someone not from their background so they could have practical experience with getting over that "household of God" lie. They can't even see that lie when they are directly affected by it with JYDL declaring the household boundaries as outside their group. Does this justify the Way in this scenario? H3ll no. 100% of the stupid one point they are making is correct. Rosalie is a deluded cult leader who at 77 isn't going to change, and the two John's she has seduced are under her thumb and not leaving because of her Communist Stalin Hitler like tactics of sending dissenters to Siberia. God, the scriptures, revelation, the body of Christ, none of that functions freely under that kind of oppressive onerous lording over people leadership. We are witnessing the birth of one more stupid cult. YASC. Yet Another Stupid Cult.

Okayyyyyyyy............... I also suffered through the entire hour of this video. And let me tell you, sticking with Ed Horn3y's 3rd grade rhetoric explained over and over again different ways real slow certainly convinced me I got off the short bus years ago when I left the Way. All dubious repeated accounts of how the BOD has been confronted and hasn't responded. Or they did respond, but not in an Acts 15 council way, they wanted to meet with couples alone. Boob didn't want to subject themselves to this. When a question was asked "what specific details" complained about, Shelton says he was a VP and as such was under an NDA so can't discuss the specifics. They vaguely refer to the letter, which as you can read has about one point. Rosalie is usurping authority, needs to step down. Democracy in the ministry I guess is the underlying point. Which has never been there in any format since the Youth Caravan Chimes Hour chimes player asked VP if he could play a solo and VP told him no. Next, all sorts of crapola about how they are working within the Way to reform and revitalize, and haven't even thought of the next step, but they will all be believers. Then Doody quoted the "I know who holds tomorrow" poem and I just about tossed cookies. Again, like the paper, have never seen so many people speaking while saying so little. They closed out with someone asking Boob how they were planning to do reform after he was marked and avoided. They all laughed. Then they closed observing they couldnt' do reform while marked and avoided, and this was the first step. All in all, apparently nothing they covered all the Corpse didn't complain about 10 years ago. It didn't change. Thankfully, I've now only lost an hour of my life, not 10 years. Carry on.