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The one who desires to have power over you will not teach you the necessary information to overthrow that power. ...............nor will the splinter groups. ~~~~~~~~ Seems that only GSC is the one place to get that *necessary information* to overpower cult doctrine.

Hey thanks for posting this up. I am migrating on my own path with respect to my relationship to scriptures. I am with you on the Canon for sure - I think possibly people have made committee decisions to exclude texts as not part of the canon of scripture because of various bias as well as possible content in apocryphal books like gospel of Thomas not fitting 100% with accepted views and existing texts. My view is currently more inclusionary than exclusionary. Of course naysayers will say "where do you draw the line? What about the book of Mormon?" and I really don't have a clear answer for that other than it seems to be inspired by a conversation with an angel Moroni so not "theopneustos" or whatever. Actually I don't seem to be cut and dried or black and white with respect to God's inspiration either. Some things seem a little more in tune to me than others. A greater spark for a shorter time or just a view of mine that is compatible or whatever. I do think we overvalued Paul / Saul of Tarsus and preferred the epistles over the gospels to our detriment in the Way. Now I have to go back and learn the gospels better to learn about all the scribes and Pharisees in the Way LOL. I don't reject Paul by any means however - he was tapped in and had a spark going. His life was so extreme. He really didn't have a great deal of experience living with and around other Christians for any length of time. Extreme education under Gamaliel that could have easily had him set for life. He ran into Jesus on the road to Damascus. Or got run over. I think maybe many of us can relate to that with our experiences with the Lord. Our old BS getting run over. Paul worked mostly on his own I guess many times Luke was on journeys and Timothy but vastly different than the life of Peter and the boys running Jerusalem. So the letters. Words from prison - to keep the mind above. Unique, beautiful, many different contents. Like Corinthians. Gifts, the body analogy, instructions about sex and marriage. Wow - I mean some really mind expanding concepts and some really different ones all together. But by no means meant by God to frame our entire lives because of some stupid idea about dispensationalism has me reading those with more weight and ignoring my Savior. I can appreciate them in their place. I mean "husbands and wives should be fair with each other about having sex" I Cor 7 I mean yeah bro - you and which little hottie kicked back on a shipwrecked island are we speaking of here? Oh, none? Ok then thx for the opinion and hope it works for you as a pickup line. Ya know? But in my life I'm going with flowers over the scales of justice approach. No offense there Paul of Tarsus. Anyway I'm just rambling on there. I doubt its a counterpoint, and it's much more rambling than considered. I see Paul as a c-r-a-z-y dude who wrote a lot in prison. You have to have an active mind there I guess. I mean I look at some of what Stephen Hawking produced mentally with all his physicals so limited. Pretty amazing. Thanks for the viewpoints. I never heard of the Jefferson Bible. I'm going to check it out.

Hey Taxidev, the fact that disappointments are mounting up is a good sign - so give yourself a lot more credit in the critical thinking department ...after mulling over your post I quoted ( and I was really electrified by your reference to broken wineskins ) I was not addressing anyone in particular - just wanted to use your expression as a springboard for criticizing offshoots of wierwille. So carry on

I am genuinely thrilled for you. Consider yourself toasted to, with beer or wine, whichever you prefer. As chockful pointed out in here , "They have accepted no learning centers outside of TWI based doctrine. They interact with no other Biblical scholars. They take input from no other Christians, except those that agree to go to their fellowships." Seems you are both in agreement, and it makes perfect sense to me. As I responded to him, I hadn't even considered that until moments ago. The disappointments are beginning to accumulate.

Yes I WAS a broken wineskin - but have moved on from that...allow me to explain: I think a lot of folks have figured out that you can’t fix stupid... and there’s no sense in repairing broken wineskins...when I say I moved on - it’s called a learning curve - folks develop skills (like critical thinking ) by learning from their mistakes... ...but those who left TWI and still have a wierwille-centric basis for doctrine and practice are stuck in a vicious circle...they may claim it’s improved - restored - revived - whatever ,like some supposedly learning curve process ...but follow the sequence - the reciprocal cause and effect of using wierwille’s “wine” and patched up wineskins (cultic mindset) and it will eventually aggravate and intensify their blindness, callousness and egotism... ...from what you’ve already shared about them I think it really illustrates Jesus’ words to a T: you should put NEW wine in NEW wineskins...in other words, start from scratch! New wine is still fermenting and so the expansion of “life” will burst an old hardened and stiff wine skin. I guess putting old wine into old wineskins wouldn’t pose as much a risk - you just keep patching up any leaks that may develop. Folks might want to figure out for themselves the application of Jesus’ words...for me it was to stop following (or being influenced by) any wierwille-associated doctrine and practice - be it books, teachings, fellowships, and rooting out that subtle mindset too (and really that part is an ongoing process - like peeling an onion...you keep digging deeper and deeper to remove one layer and then discover another layer beneath that... your critical thinking skills do get better over time - like therapy for atrophied muscles)...for me, putting the NEW wine in a NEW wineskin means taking off the wierwille-colored glasses and reading the Bible with an open mind and trying to gather the natural sense of scripture.

And now for something totally outta sight, man...HERE

Too little too late imo! I am supposed to believe that these asswipe third rate Corpse grads, most of whose names I still know, along with a lot of the lies, misdeeds, and actual "working of evil" their resumes contain, have been INNOCENTLY STUCK ON STUPID FOR 40 FREAKING YEARS??? C'mon man! That's simply the same old sob stories and failed excuses they've been living in and with for 3 decades. That does not speak to anything close to being "Way Corpse ministers". Rather it reveals the insanity of their beliefs and "thinking", in that they have repeatedly tried the same bullshit over and over again for 30 years, and expecting different results. Lying, adultery, deceit, serial sexual abuse and "indiscretions", corrupt, self-serving "counseling", stealing, misuse, and non-disclosure of TWIt finances, spurious, false, and anti(against)-Christ doctrine, practice, and thinking, the spiritual abuse of innocent Christians, the covering up of numerous suicides, mental breakdowns and severe mental illnesses left untreated and then given the "devil spirit possession" label, which led to the cruel, heartless, and UN-Christ-like expulsion from the "household of believers", libel, slander, and falsehoods spread viciously through the spitting, vengeful, lying lips of "top leadership" from coast to coast and around the world. Rejoicing in iniquity and the destruction of others just for spite became the "leadership" norm for 30 years. Now, you who committed the same crimes and abuses against Jesus Christ's Church, and carried out and executed evil unbiblical acts and behavior, expect to be followed because you're gonna do it right this time?? I THINK NOT! YOU ALL MUST FIRST REPENT BEFORE JESUS CHRIST, and then seek forgiveness from those you have injured and abused. READ AND CARRY OUT MATTHEW chapter 8! Then I'll think about wasting my precious time once more on your man-made religious bigotry and hatred. WE KNOW YOU BY YOUR FRUIT! It has been grossly rotten for over 40 years now. Guess that old tree must be rotten to its roots, along with those who supposedly "plant and water". The mental terrorism you perpetrated against those who honestly gave everything they had only to be dropped like a bag of dirt at the whims and fancies of corrupt, pathological, tyrants, who enjoyed ruling with fascist fists of iron rather than velvet gloves of Christian love, is not taken lightly by Jesus Christ. The rampant sexual promiscuity and serial adultery and physical abuse also destroyed or humiliated hundreds of young women. The misogyny, racism, Naziism, Aryanism, fascism, emotional and psychological terrorism only worsened during the last 30 years you morons have presumed to be in charge. You have raped and plundered God's most precious "property".....His children. Your time at your delusional "bema" will be short! Rewards? LOL! I think it will be more like, "I never knew you!" So.......repent first, then, come clean with the true facts and misdeeds you have committed against the Church BEFORE THE CHURCH, then apologize, and ask for forgiveness from those you directly and personally injured, and then ask for forgiveness from the Church. THEN AND ONLY THEN will I consider listening to anything you have to say. HYPOCRITES AND WHITED SEPULCHERS. PHARISEES AND SCRIBES. LIARS AND THIEVES. Let's see if once in these last 40 years you can DO the right thing! We'll see!